Author Topic: Tucker Carlson Thinks the Problem With America Is Market Capitalism  (Read 1074 times)

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Online EasyAce

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The populist pundit couldn’t be more wrong.
By Timothy Sandfeur
http://reason.com/archives/2019/01/04/tucker-carlson-thinks-the-problem-with-a

Quote
If there were any doubt of the direction the Trump-dominated GOP is taking, Tucker Carlson's monologue on Fox News Wednesday should remove it. Carlson's not a political leader, but he's a bellwether, and his words are already being cheered by prominent conservatives. Meant as a rebuttal to Mitt Romney's New Year's Day op-ed, the speech wasn't original, but it reveals the degree to which Republicans have embraced the populist authoritarianism they once condemned.

Carlson began with several swipes against "bankers" who exploit the working class to line the pockets of spooky elites. If that anti-capitalist lingo sounds familiar, so does his contemptuous shrug at the ways free markets improve lives . . . Money can't buy happiness, but material prosperity is a necessary ingredient for the good life, and the practical elimination of poverty today is giving more people than ever before the opportunity to lead lives in ways that accomplish their own goals.

Government policies that curtail their choices are, by definition, obstacles to the pursuit of happiness and impose harms that politicians literally cannot imagine . . . Although pitched as anti-government populism, Carlson's prescription is clear: government management of the economy in order to force citizens into what politicians consider "happiness."

But America's "goal" isn't "happiness"—it's freedom to pursue happiness. That phrase was written by people who rejected the idea that government gives us liberty to serve collective ends . . .

Freedom—economic or personal—is not "created by human beings." It's the rightful, natural state of all persons. It can unjustly be destroyed, but never transcended. Nor were the infinitely diverse institutions we call "the market" ever "created"—they're a spontaneous order generated by the free choices of countless individuals pursuing happiness as they decide. Some of their choices may be foolish, or seem so to outsiders who lack full information. But the freedom to make choices, for all its disruptiveness, is the only thing "independence" or "happiness" can ever truly mean.

Offline DCPatriot

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Re: Tucker Carlson Thinks the Problem With America Is Market Capitalism
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2019, 01:36:10 PM »
My head hurts....     :pondering:      :thud:
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Tucker Carlson Thinks the Problem With America Is Market Capitalism
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2019, 02:08:45 PM »
My head hurts....     :pondering:      :thud:

Mine was spinning after listening to Carlson. 
Cui bono?

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Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Tucker Carlson Thinks the Problem With America Is Market Capitalism
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2019, 02:09:21 PM »
What a joke. Trumptardism has ruined conservatism forever.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Tucker Carlson Thinks the Problem With America Is Market Capitalism
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2019, 02:11:03 PM »
Quote
Tucker Carlson Claims Market Capitalism Has Undermined American Society. He's Wrong.

On Wednesday evening, Tucker Carlson delivered a 15-minute monologue on his Fox News program regarding the future of economics and politics in the United States. In that monologue, Carlson accurately bemoaned the current state of the American soul – rising suicide rates and overdose rates, declining levels of family generation, declining ties that bind us together. He then attributed that hole in the soul to bad policy, both political and economic.

There’s no question that America has pursued bad policy for years – and that some of that policy has undermined family dynamics. The welfare state, to take an obvious example, has skewed incentive structures for millions of Americans, making it easier for them to break apart their families and raise children in solitude rather than in the comfort and stability of a two-parent married household. When government attempts to solve the ills of individuals, it all too often destroys the incentives that support responsible behavior.

But Carlson seems to attribute America’s troubles not to government interventionism, but to government non-interventionism. Typically, conservatism has argued that if you live in a free society in which you have not been targeted unfairly, your failures are your own. For Carlson, however, the very freedom of our society leads to the unhappiness so many of us feel. Carlson seems to suggest that our system itself is to blame for individual shortcomings, and that collective restructuring of free institutions will alleviate and cure those shortcomings. This is simply not reflective of conservatism, or of founding ideology....

https://www.dailywire.com/news/39964/tucker-carlson-claims-market-capitalism-has-ben-shapiro?utm_source=shapironewsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=010519-news&utm_campaign=position1
Cui bono?

Walk in Wisdom
See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools but as wise, redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

But the noble make noble plans, and by noble deeds they stand.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Tucker Carlson Thinks the Problem With America Is Market Capitalism
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2019, 02:11:40 PM »
What a joke. Trumptardism has ruined conservatism forever.

What are you talking about?  Carlson isn't an ever-Trumper.
Cui bono?

Walk in Wisdom
See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools but as wise, redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

But the noble make noble plans, and by noble deeds they stand.

Online EasyAce

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Re: Tucker Carlson Thinks the Problem With America Is Market Capitalism
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2019, 03:09:16 PM »
What are you talking about?  Carlson isn't an ever-Trumper.
@Sanguine
From what I've seen he swings both ways. On the one hand, he pounces at the drop of a syllable against President Tweety's critics, hence his rejoinder to Romney; on the other hand, he often loses "patience" with him:

Quote
Fox News’ Tucker Carlson Loses Patience With Donald Trump: ‘I Don’t Think He’s Capable’
(7 December 2018) By Lee Moran

Tucker Carlson is usually quick to go after critics of President Donald Trump on his nightly Fox News show.

But in a new interview with conservative Swiss magazine Die Weltwoche, the Tucker Carlson Tonight host called out Trump himself for his boastfulness and for failing to keep his promises to voters.

His chief promises were that he would build the wall, de-fund Planned Parenthood and repeal Obamacare, and he hasn’t done any of those things,” said Carlson, per The Washington Post.

Carlson said he’d “come to believe” Trump’s role was “not as a conventional president who promises to get certain things achieved to the Congress and then does" . . .


Offline Sanguine

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Re: Tucker Carlson Thinks the Problem With America Is Market Capitalism
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2019, 04:13:25 PM »
@Sanguine
From what I've seen he swings both ways. On the one hand, he pounces at the drop of a syllable against President Tweety's critics, hence his rejoinder to Romney; on the other hand, he often loses "patience" with him:

That's why the "bleep" comment didn't make any sense.
Cui bono?

Walk in Wisdom
See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools but as wise, redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

But the noble make noble plans, and by noble deeds they stand.

Online EasyAce

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Offline skeeter

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Re: Tucker Carlson Thinks the Problem With America Is Market Capitalism
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2019, 04:30:47 PM »
I have no problem with what Carlson is saying.

Just as the left refers to Big Business as an evil force but neglects that the very same kinds of flawed people populate their beloved government, many on the right recoil at any mention that many times Corporations act against the interests of their own countrymen for the benefit of a few.

Absolutists are never right all of the time, the truth lies somewhere between the two poles.

The plain fact is that while the leaders in both government and in the private sector are getting fabulously wealthy, the American middle is being squeezed into nonexistence. Something isn't working.

Offline Absalom

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Re: Tucker Carlson Thinks the Problem With America Is Market Capitalism
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2019, 04:31:17 PM »
Before the predictable urinary contest gets into high gear; suggest a pause and
reflection on Market Capitalism. the title of the post..
As an opinion forum, all are entitled to theirs, yet consider a moment;
Man has walked this earth for some 10,000 years passing through various eras
among them the formative Fertile Crescent, the Classical Era of Greece and Rome, 
founders of Western Civilization, the Scholastic Age, the Renaissance, the Reformation.
The hallmark of each was their creative achievement in both art and science driven by
a powerful spiritual attitude and awareness.
Then in the late 18th century, the Enlightenment came along and in its luggage carried
market capitalism, as Adam Smith, David Ricardo and Thomas Malthus detailed.
These essentially twin events changed the world dramatically, indefinitely and
arguably, hardly for the better.
Both ushered in materialism as the superior value system for Mankind and we
bear the fruits of that change to this very moment.
Further, the Enlightenment asserted that we are all brothers, which is horse
manure; that freedom trumps all virtues, which is horse manure squared and that
we are all equal, which is horse manure cubed.
Suspect Carlson knows exactly what he is talking about!

« Last Edit: January 05, 2019, 07:57:16 PM by Absalom »

Offline Sanguine

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Cui bono?

Walk in Wisdom
See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools but as wise, redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

But the noble make noble plans, and by noble deeds they stand.

Online EasyAce

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Re: Tucker Carlson Thinks the Problem With America Is Market Capitalism
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2019, 04:51:03 PM »
Just as the left refers to Big Business as an evil force but neglects that the very same kinds of flawed people populate their beloved government, many on the right recoil at any mention that many times Corporations act against the interests of their own countrymen for the benefit of a few.
The latter falls under the heading of crony capitalism, which isn't the same as a genuine free market.

Offline skeeter

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Re: Tucker Carlson Thinks the Problem With America Is Market Capitalism
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2019, 05:11:39 PM »
The latter falls under the heading of crony capitalism, which isn't the same as a genuine free market.

I guess I don't get it then. What did Carlson assert that everyone finds so objectionable?

Economic liberty is like all other freedoms Americans are entitled to - it cannot be long exercised without a conscious and sense of responsibility to those around us. This is what I took away from his monologue & I agree entirely.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2019, 05:36:48 PM by skeeter »

Online EasyAce

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Re: Tucker Carlson Thinks the Problem With America Is Market Capitalism
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2019, 05:39:10 PM »
I guess I don't get it then. What did Carlson assert that everyone finds so objectionable?
He objects to the free market. He thinks a free market equals "crushing" a family.

"To Carlson," the authors of the original article write, "economic freedom is disposable—'a tool…created by human beings' 'like a staple gun or a toaster,' which politicians can eliminate if they decide it's 'weaken[ing]…families.' Since 'the goal for America is…happiness'—which includes things like 'dignity, purpose, self-control, independence, above all, deep relationships with other people'—the failure of international bankers to make people happy and give them rewarding family lives is grounds for bureaucratic control. Although pitched as anti-government populism, Carlson's prescription is clear: government management of the economy in order to force citizens into what politicians consider 'happiness'."

Offline skeeter

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Re: Tucker Carlson Thinks the Problem With America Is Market Capitalism
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2019, 05:46:15 PM »
He objects to the free market. He thinks a free market equals "crushing" a family.

"To Carlson," the authors of the original article write, "economic freedom is disposable—'a tool…created by human beings' 'like a staple gun or a toaster,' which politicians can eliminate if they decide it's 'weaken[ing]…families.' Since 'the goal for America is…happiness'—which includes things like 'dignity, purpose, self-control, independence, above all, deep relationships with other people'—the failure of international bankers to make people happy and give them rewarding family lives is grounds for bureaucratic control. Although pitched as anti-government populism, Carlson's prescription is clear: government management of the economy in order to force citizens into what politicians consider 'happiness'."

I listened to Carlson's whole thing twice & read it once. His point was different, more nuanced than his critics allege. The free market does not exist for its own sake.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2019, 05:55:23 PM by skeeter »

Online EasyAce

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Re: Tucker Carlson Thinks the Problem With America Is Market Capitalism
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2019, 06:15:09 PM »
The free market does not exist for its own sake.
Nobody who truly believes in the free market thinks it does. But simply because people don't work within a free market the way some politician or some other commentator thinks they "ought" to work within it, or because other people think the natural dynamic of a properly free market (you know, people exercise choices, businesses compete truly, some businesses fail, some succeed, without manipulative interferences, and nobody goes crying to Big Nanny because a business that failed has a "right" to continue to exist) is "unfair" (false thinking, of course), doesn't mean the free market in and of itself is unsound. And government manipulation/intervention into the market . . . well, how's that been working for the last several generations?
« Last Edit: January 05, 2019, 06:16:30 PM by EasyAce »

Offline skeeter

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Re: Tucker Carlson Thinks the Problem With America Is Market Capitalism
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2019, 06:29:39 PM »
Nobody who truly believes in the free market thinks it does. But simply because people don't work within a free market the way some politician or some other commentator thinks they "ought" to work within it, or because other people think the natural dynamic of a properly free market (you know, people exercise choices, businesses compete truly, some businesses fail, some succeed, without manipulative interferences, and nobody goes crying to Big Nanny because a business that failed has a "right" to continue to exist) is "unfair" (false thinking, of course), doesn't mean the free market in and of itself is unsound. And government manipulation/intervention into the market . . . well, how's that been working for the last several generations?

I believe the decay Carlson describes is real. Those who don't probably will not cotton to his essay. BTW IMO nowhere did he suggest government intervention. In fact he clearly said politicians not only will not but cannot address what he describes as what ails us.

His least defensible line was something about rich people doing something to raise wages in rural America, but I interpreted that as, for example, refusing employing illegal aliens who undercut wages. He was appealing to conscience.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2019, 06:32:22 PM by skeeter »

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Re: Tucker Carlson Thinks the Problem With America Is Market Capitalism
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2019, 06:42:24 PM »
I believe the decay Carlson describes is real. Those who don't probably will not cotton to his essay.
The decay is real enough. But further government intervention won't arrest it. And implicit through out much of his monologue is the thought that government should and indeed must "address" it. (He specified Republicans, but you get the idea.) Implying that the time's overdue for government to be the conscience we "won't" be. A sad example of an instance in which a man of the right sounds like a man of the left.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2019, 06:43:44 PM by EasyAce »

Offline skeeter

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Re: Tucker Carlson Thinks the Problem With America Is Market Capitalism
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2019, 06:47:18 PM »
The decay is real enough. But further government intervention won't arrest it. And implicit through out much of his monologue is the thought that government should and indeed must "address" it. (He specified Republicans, but you get the idea.) Implying that the time's overdue for government to be the conscience we "won't" be. A sad example of an instance in which a man of the right sounds like a man of the left.

Even if that 'government intervention' takes the form of solid border enforcement to reduce downward pressure on salaries? The abolition of set asides based upon color, gender? The removal of regulations and other artificial barriers to entry for small start ups lobbied for by corporations via their bought politicians?

"Government intervention" in the form of GWB's ADA which forced small business owners to lay off employees in order to afford that wheelchair elevator no one will use can only be undone by more "government intervention".
« Last Edit: January 05, 2019, 06:51:12 PM by skeeter »

Online EasyAce

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Re: Tucker Carlson Thinks the Problem With America Is Market Capitalism
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2019, 07:00:53 PM »
Even if that 'government intervention' takes the form of solid border enforcement to reduce downward pressure on salaries? The abolition of set asides based upon color, gender? The removal of regulations and other artificial barriers to entry for small start ups lobbied for by corporations via their bought politicians?

"Government intervention" in the form of GWB's ADA which forced small business owners to lay off employees in order to afford that wheelchair elevator no one will use can only be undone by more "government intervention".
Removing those would be removing government intervention, not imposing or enhancing it.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2019, 07:01:32 PM by EasyAce »

Offline skeeter

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Re: Tucker Carlson Thinks the Problem With America Is Market Capitalism
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2019, 07:01:56 PM »
Removing those would be removing government intervention, not imposing or enhancing it.

I think you get my point.

Offline Bigun

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Re: Tucker Carlson Thinks the Problem With America Is Market Capitalism
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2019, 07:10:28 PM »
We haven't had any true market capitalism in this country for more than 150 years and the sad fact is that it is never going to come back, indeed cannot come back, for so long as we continue to abide the Marxist income tax and it's attendant IRS!


http://fairtax.org

Online EasyAce

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Re: Tucker Carlson Thinks the Problem With America Is Market Capitalism
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2019, 07:11:08 PM »
I think you get my point.
I am in favour of removing government intervention, not securing it where it exists or imposing it even further.

I believe the number one public nuisance in this country is government. And with pitifully small exceptions, a good number of which are weak enough to be overturned at the earliest convenience (ho ho ho), I have seen nothing to indicate that any substantial removal of government intervention into things it is neither competent nor constitutionally sanctioned to intervene in has begun in true earnest.

Offline skeeter

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Re: Tucker Carlson Thinks the Problem With America Is Market Capitalism
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2019, 07:26:43 PM »
I am in favour of removing government intervention, not securing it where it exists or imposing it even further.

I believe the number one public nuisance in this country is government. And with pitifully small exceptions, a good number of which are weak enough to be overturned at the earliest convenience (ho ho ho), I have seen nothing to indicate that any substantial removal of government intervention into things it is neither competent nor constitutionally sanctioned to intervene in has begun in true earnest.

Agree completely.

IMO there are two ways government will be compelled to reduce their profile and deleterious effect in our lives - one, we grab up all the rope we can carry march to DC and start setting a few examples; or two, legislatively through our representatives. I believe this is what Carlson was talking about, as fruitless an intellectual exercise as it may have been.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2019, 07:29:08 PM by skeeter »


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