Author Topic: Progressives unseated all 59 Republican judges up for re-election in Houston in the midterms  (Read 14808 times)

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Offline Dexter

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Then that’s how it has to be.  Not going to sell my soul for politics.

Sometimes concessions are the only way to stay relevant. I get it though. Y'all have an admirable dedication to your beliefs. Ultimately Christ was destroyed for his message. It'll be the same with Christianity in politics. Social conservatism is dying. I hope economic conservatism doesn't die with it.
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Offline Dexter

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The talk would be 'give up social issues', then if that wouldn't work, it would be, 'well, give out more welfare .' To really be 'Dems lite.  It's really like Rush says, the Democrats need an underclass to function.

Also, I think as long as lives are not worth anything, there will be problems in the innercities, who really the Democrats and liberals aim their programs at.

I think moving left on social issues would make it easier to move right on economic issues. The left won the social war.
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Offline libertybele

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@Dexter, your message seems to be that the GOP/conservatives need to bend on the core principles upon which this country was founded and the rule of law; namely the Constitution. That rationale is exactly why this country is in the mess that it's in.  Both the DEM and GOP have swayed from their party's core ideals and principles and consequently BOTH have failed the American people.  Our elected officials take an 'oath of office' to support and defend the constitution; deviating from that oath to me is NOT acceptable. Corruption, manipulation, lies, and denying or accepting responsibility for lawlessness have no place in our Republic.

I will stand behind leadership who tries to move this country in a positive direction and back to its core principles and will NOT stand behind leadership who tries to move this country against its core values and against the rule of law for the sake of political correctness. 

Left leaning conservatives have had a negative impact on the party and consequently on this country; to continue to appease and cater to the leftists for votes has been detrimental.  Continuing on that path will give the GOP the same results. If that's what you choose to do, that's completely your choice.

End of discussion on this one.  Peace.   :patriot:

 
« Last Edit: November 16, 2018, 01:12:10 pm by libertybele »
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Dexter

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@Dexter, your message seems to be that the GOP/conservatives need to bend on the core principles upon which this country was founded and the rule of law; namely the Constitution. That rationale is exactly why this country is in the mess that it's in.  Both the DEM and GOP have swayed from their party's core ideals and principles and consequently BOTH have failed the American people.  Our elected officials take an 'oath of office' to support and defend the constitution; deviating from that oath to me is NOT acceptable. Corruption, manipulation, lies, and denying or accepting responsibility for lawlessness have no place in our Republic.

I will stand behind leadership who tries to move this country in a positive direction and back to its core principles and will NOT stand behind leadership who tries to move this country against its core values and against the rule of law for the sake of political correctness. 

Left leaning conservatives have had a negative impact on the party and consequently on this country; to continue to appease and cater to the leftists for votes has been detrimental.  Continuing on that path will give the GOP the same results. If that's what you choose to do, that's completely your choice.

End of discussion on this one.  Peace.   :patriot:

There aren't a lot of options Libertybele. If the Republicans don't budge and are utterly defeated in the next decade then what does it matter? The timeline for the destruction of our liberties and descention into third world insanity will be expedited if the Republicans lose. The left is hoping people like you would rather die than bend with the tides. That makes their goals easier.
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Offline Jazzhead

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There aren't a lot of options Libertybele. If the Republicans don't budge and are utterly defeated in the next decade then what does it matter? The timeline for the destruction of our liberties and descention into third world insanity will be expedited if the Republicans lose. The left is hoping people like you would rather die than bend with the tides. That makes their goals easier.

This is good, pragmatic advice.    Religious and social causes are best advanced between private citizens.   The government's role is to guarantee individual liberty, not to promote "Christian values".   

Time and demographics will marginalize conservative Christians on the issue of homosexuality.   Young folks are far more accepting than folks of my generation, but most of us are changing too.   The speed at which homosexuals have been accepted as couples in the mainstream of society is astonishing, really -  it's only been two generations or so since the AIDS crisis.    Gay marriage encourages monogamy,  which if you're honest is perfectly congruent with Christian values. 

As for abortion,  most folks want to see abortion safe, legal and rare.    Conservatives of good will should do their level best to persuade their loved ones to do the right thing and provide them the necessary support to do so.   But as for the woman's fundamental right to determine the course of her future,  that is an individual decision that is no business of the State.

Dexter, you are quite correct that the GOP's freedom and opportunity message is blunted when it becomes preoccupied with these sideshow issues.     
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Offline Smokin Joe

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There aren't a lot of options Libertybele. If the Republicans don't budge and are utterly defeated in the next decade then what does it matter? The timeline for the destruction of our liberties and descention into third world insanity will be expedited if the Republicans lose. The left is hoping people like you would rather die than bend with the tides. That makes their goals easier.
Nonsense. When was the last time the GOP didn't budge? They have been steadily sliding left my WHOLE LIFETIME--and I'm a great grandfather 8 times over.
How well has that worked?
Is that energizing the base (redefining the 'base' as the few moderate liberals sucked in by the portside drift of the GOP is BS, so let's get back to the social and fiscal Conservatives who traditionally composed the base of the GOP.--Nixon's "silent majority" who are burned out and gobsmacked at being lied to with neither compunction nor remorse by those they have entrusted from the allegedly 'honest' party to handle the business of government within the Constitution.)
 You can toss the "social issues" but keep in mind that 240 million Americans identify as Christian, and then there are those of other faiths who take their beliefs seriously as well. Such a large majority (of all faiths) might somehow embrace a stand on social issues which leans conservative. If you want to get them to the polls, then don't abandon their beliefs, simple as that.

Go running off to cater to the latest libertine passion/perversion and the appeal drops. But if you want to run the 'two mommies' ads like JC Penny did, expect your stock to drop until you have new management.

You won't gain by trying to be Democrats, because the Democrats are already well practiced at it and have their voters pretty well in hand.

If you want to win, stand tough on the issues which really matter (the border comes to mind--especially so) because if the GOP stays wishy washy on the Border and illegal immigration, the Democrat demographic will be expanded to the point that American Citizens will be a minority. (DO you really think there are only 11.5 million illegals in the US? Sh*t, they were throwing that number around thirty years ago, there have been over a million coming in every year (we damnsure aren't deporting that many) and they have been doing what people do--making babies. )

As for the past decades:

I have far fewer rights than when I could first vote:

We won't even go into gun rights but they have been significantly lessened.

The State can seize my property, funds, assets (other than cash), business, etc., on the spurious belief that somehow those items are guilty of a crime: to wit, that they are assets derived from some illegal activity.
There is no evidentiary standard, warrant, not even arrest required, and I must prove the innocence of inanimate objects to perhaps reclaim my assets, if that CAN be done, and at my expense against an adversary I fund (in part) which has limitless resources.

Communications (including this one) are routinely monitored by the NSA as a matter of course, as are everyone's, and may well be recorded on a server farm somewhere. (What happened to the 4th Amendmaent?)

My grandfather, cut and milled the timber on his half of the farm to clear the land and build barns and outbuildings--egad! he did that with NO PERMITS! --and it was perfectly legal. His daughter cannot cut other timber on the farm without an EIS, an exclusion from Scenic River and Buffer Zone regulations, and a separate permit to cut each tree, even though the very trees in question were planted by an ancestor some 180 years ago. (over 20 acres of mature (actually just past prime) Red Oak--worth a fortune).
They can't fish in the river for personal consumption without a license (Riparian Rights were stripped from landowners in the '70s)--by virtue of the original land grant they not only had riparian rights, but to the center of the channel--a mile offshore.  If anyone ever drills for the natural gas I strongly suspect is present, the royalty and mineral rights will be contested by, if not claimed by the selfsame State which decreed the robbery of the other riparian rights possessed from well before there ever was a United States.

That's just hitting a few of the high points, but where did those regulations stem from? From an agency or agencies which were founded or empowered thus, not under Democrat Presidents, but by Republicans.

These are just a few high points on what voting for the "conservatives" in the GOP have cost us as a family, but we aren't the only ones, either. Now remind me again why I should vote Democrat so they don't steal me blind and take away my Rights?

With 'Friends' like the GOP, who needs enemies?

The Democrats are worse, because they want the remaining rights I possess (not to mention money),  but who does that leave for me to vote FOR?
The only time in the last quarter century I had (almost) the opportunity to vote FOR someone I liked (as opposed to just casting a ballot to block someone completely unacceptable) was in the last Presidential Primary, and then the GOP in this State didn't hold one. 9999hair out0000

Give me a reason why I should SUPPORT that.
Just not being the other bunch of totalitarians doesn't cut it any more.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Dexter

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You won't gain by trying to be Democrats

The Republicans will never be the Democrats as long as they support economic conservatism. Also the protection of the second amendment and our borders is something the Democrats will never be interested in.
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Offline GrouchoTex

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I'm done with fighting in general, and I certainly won't fight Americans. Reasonable people will abandon you if you start turning towards violence.

Now this I agree with you.
 :cool:

Offline GrouchoTex

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Sometimes concessions are the only way to stay relevant. I get it though. Y'all have an admirable dedication to your beliefs. Ultimately Christ was destroyed for his message. It'll be the same with Christianity in politics. Social conservatism is dying. I hope economic conservatism doesn't die with it.

Yet, economic conservative will die with it.
An immoral society really won't care about moral economics.
Why would it?
It would be fine to lie, cheat, and steal your way to prosperity, if you don't have a moral compass to guide the way.
It is all part and parcel.
We have locks on our doors, not to keep the thieves out.
They will find a way in.
It is to keep the honest people honest.
Ignore the parts of morality that you are uncomfortable with being discussed, and the rest of it won't be far behind.




Offline Smokin Joe

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The Republicans will never be the Democrats as long as they support economic conservatism. Also the protection of the second amendment and our borders is something the Democrats will never be interested in.
I have wasted my time trying to explain to one who either can't or won't get it. The Republicans will never be the Democrats as long as they support the Constitution and, within those bounds, Social Conservatism, either. Democrats, typical of socialists will always find ways for the more wealthy in their ranks to keep theirs, while stripping the middle class like gleaners and buying votes with the loot. I'm not supporting the Democrats, they're even further down the road to embracing totalitarianism than the GOP, I'm just wondering if there is a Party who supports the Constitution any more.

If you could go back in time and try, how would you make the argument before the Founders that a woman has the "right" to kill her unborn child?
 
How would you make the argument that homosexuals have the right to, with the aid of the State, co-opt the Sacrament of Matrimony and claim to be married?

How would you justify all the social programs that are presented as Robin Hood good deeds of taking from "the rich" (successful) and giving to the "poor" (recall, if  you will, Robin of Loxley robbed tax collectors and gave the money back--less operational expenses, of course. I don't recall an instance of him robbing a merchant).

How would you justify Social Programs which permit and even demand that the State take custody and control of children?--whether or not there is evidence to support any 'abuse', and that often defined by the thinnest of reasoning, supported only by anonymous complaint.

How would you justify the State routinely monitoring all the communications and business of everyone?
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline GrouchoTex

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@GrouchoTex

How am I trying to "silence debate"?    I am merely engaging as a member of this board concerning a topic I find interesting to discuss.  This isn't a private conversation between you and Dexter.     If all you can manage to say is that "you disagree", then fine.  But I fail to see what you're trying to gain by accusing me of being a leftist trying to "silence debate".

Yet, you say that that people of faith on the right shouldn't express their opinions, at the risk of turning voters off.
The result would be silencing the debate.
It's no different than saying white people shouldn't voice their opinion about race, or that men shouldn't voice their opinion about violence against females.
Both of those things have been said frequently, and recently, and by the left.

The main theme here is stop illegal immigration and keep the economy going, but don't say anything else, or people won't vote for these things.
Do you and @Dexter really believe this?
Pretty astounding.

Offline GrouchoTex

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I have wasted my time trying to explain to one who either can't or won't get it. The Republicans will never be the Democrats as long as they support the Constitution and, within those bounds, Social Conservatism, either. Democrats, typical of socialists will always find ways for the more wealthy in their ranks to keep theirs, while stripping the middle class like gleaners and buying votes with the loot. I'm not supporting the Democrats, they're even further down the road to embracing totalitarianism than the GOP, I'm just wondering if there is a Party who supports the Constitution any more.

If you could go back in time and try, how would you make the argument before the Founders that a woman has the "right" to kill her unborn child?
 
How would you make the argument that homosexuals have the right to, with the aid of the State, co-opt the Sacrament of Matrimony and claim to be married?

How would you justify all the social programs that are presented as Robin Hood good deeds of taking from "the rich" (successful) and giving to the "poor" (recall, if  you will, Robin of Loxley robbed tax collectors and gave the money back--less operational expenses, of course. I don't recall an instance of him robbing a merchant).

How would you justify Social Programs which permit and even demand that the State take custody and control of children?--whether or not there is evidence to support any 'abuse', and that often defined by the thinnest of reasoning, supported only by anonymous complaint.

How would you justify the State routinely monitoring all the communications and business of everyone?

Exactly right.
Abortion is not mentioned in the constitution, not once.
Therefore, it is a 10th amendment issue.

Marriage (gay, straight, or otherwise) is not mentioned in the constitution, not once.
Therefore it is a 10th amendment issue.

If those who want us to stay silent on these subjects, due to some morality issue, look at this as a legal issue.

The constitution also doesn't say what someone should (or should not) earn, yet they are taking up the 15.00 an hour minimum wage law in the house again.

The way I see this, is that some (so-called) conservatives ore okay with men in black robes passing laws they are in favor of, but would howl the day these same judges would come out and say something like, "we need to uphold a maximum wage law, under protection of the 14th amendment. It is not equal protection if Joe makes 15.00 an hour but Sam makes 20.00, so everyone will now make 15.00"

Don't think it could happen?
Abortion and Gay marriage are just 2 types of instances where it has happened already.
Add Obamacare to the list, and healthcare is not mentioned in the the Constitution, either
« Last Edit: November 16, 2018, 04:03:47 pm by GrouchoTex »

Offline TomSea

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I think moving left on social issues would make it easier to move right on economic issues. The left won the social war.

Well, until we see leftists acting against immigration issues, like as said, give 'em a foot, they'll take a mile. The resident leftist speaks up Islam, speaks up compassionate immigration enforcement or maybe not immigration enforcement. You're way totally loses the argument.

States rights should stand for something, community values, who has acted is the SCOTUS legislating from the bench. Numerous states would act on these social issues if they had the chance.

You're way is waving a white flag. Concentrate on immigration and economics, oh sure.

Offline Dexter

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Yet, you say that that people of faith on the right shouldn't express their opinions, at the risk of turning voters off.
The result would be silencing the debate.
It's no different than saying white people shouldn't voice their opinion about race, or that men shouldn't voice their opinion about violence against females.
Both of those things have been said frequently, and recently, and by the left.

The main theme here is stop illegal immigration and keep the economy going, but don't say anything else, or people won't vote for these things.
Do you and @Dexter really believe this?
Pretty astounding.

It's easier to sell your message when it's more refined.
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Offline Dexter

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Also I don't believe morality can't exist without Christianity. There are plenty of good people that don't consider themselves religious.
"I know one thing, that I know nothing."
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Offline TomSea

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Sometimes concessions are the only way to stay relevant. I get it though. Y'all have an admirable dedication to your beliefs. Ultimately Christ was destroyed for his message. It'll be the same with Christianity in politics. Social conservatism is dying. I hope economic conservatism doesn't die with it.

The truth is you and Jazzheads are just spouting liberal talking points, you scapegoat Christianity because your arguments are so weak. Some so-called Trumpers have been that way too.

Trump was elected in an electoral landslide, no candidate, no nominee at least had ever said the things Trump did. You are just grinding an axe with no backup basically.  Demeaning others.  Your argument is garbage, you don't address abortion, you attack others and make asinine and insensitive assertions. Good luck if your whole outlook is just attacking Christianity.


Quote

MATTHEWS: This is not something you can dodge.
 
TRUMP: It’s a -- no, no...
 
MATTHEWS: If you say abortion is a crime or abortion is murder, you have to deal with it under law. Should abortion be punished?
 
TRUMP: Well, people in certain parts of the Republican Party and conservative Republicans would say, "yes, they should be punished."
 
MATTHEWS: How about you?
 
TRUMP: I would say that it’s a very serious problem. And it’s a problem that we have to decide on. It’s very hard.
 
MATTHEWS: But you’re for banning it?

https://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/article/2016/mar/30/context-transcript-donald-trump-punishing-women-ab/

Enough of this blue state liberalism, excessive criticism of Christianity with really no backup should be looked at severely.

And Trump would not have been elected without the Evangelical vote, as it is, the left tries to pull off a coup, the Dems are so unpopular, they have to cheat at elections. Your views have no foundation... good bye to you if all your argument stems from is insulting others. You can't win an honest debate.

Offline GrouchoTex

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Also I don't believe morality can't exist without Christianity. There are plenty of good people that don't consider themselves religious.

This is true.
However, there is some motivating factor for them to be moral.
It does not have to be religion, but it has to be a belief in something.
If not, they would have no logical reason to be "good people".
FYI,
Christianity isn't the only religion espousing morality.

Offline TomSea

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This is good, pragmatic advice.    Religious and social causes are best advanced between private citizens.   The government's role is to guarantee individual liberty, not to promote "Christian values".   

Time and demographics will marginalize conservative Christians on the issue of homosexuality.   Young folks are far more accepting than folks of my generation, but most of us are changing too.   The speed at which homosexuals have been accepted as couples in the mainstream of society is astonishing, really -  it's only been two generations or so since the AIDS crisis.    Gay marriage encourages monogamy,  which if you're honest is perfectly congruent with Christian values. 

As for abortion,  most folks want to see abortion safe, legal and rare.    Conservatives of good will should do their level best to persuade their loved ones to do the right thing and provide them the necessary support to do so.   But as for the woman's fundamental right to determine the course of her future,  that is an individual decision that is no business of the State.

Dexter, you are quite correct that the GOP's freedom and opportunity message is blunted when it becomes preoccupied with these sideshow issues.     

Sorry, I will take the FFs words over yours, in drafting, construction and signing of the Constitution in the city of Philadelphia in 1776, John Adams said the Constitution was for a moral and religious people and useless without it.
Quote
Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/john_adams_391045

So, you are just preaching secular humanism again and arrogance, calling people's lives "sideshows".

Offline TomSea

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Noah Webster:

Quote
“[T]he Christian religion, in its purity, is the basis, or rather the source of all genuine freedom in government. . . . and I am persuaded that no civil government of a republican form can exist and be durable in which the principles of that religion have not a controlling influence.”

It's pretty clear what the Founding Fathers thought. I will go with them instead of progressive thought, they will doom this nation.

http://tothesource.org/religious-liberty/misquoting-our-founding-fathers/

Offline GrouchoTex

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You seem to be saying, yes, but, that ship has sailed, and we can't do anything about it now, so let's focus on immigration and the economy.
The GOP did just that in the last election and still lost the house, some state houses and governorships, and barely held on the the Senate.
They tried it your way in this midterm, no talk of social issue, and they still lost.
So now you suggest to double down?
Great, then we can double our losses.
Find me one ad or campaign speech from a GOP candidate that referenced abortion or homosexuality during this midterm.
I don't think you will be able to.

BTW,

Axios release a survey 2 days ago that polled democrats, and what they thought of conservatives.
Their findings?
60+% said conservatives were racist, bigots, and homophobes.
If we all jumped up at once in a massive voice and said, "C'mon, we aren't any of those things", they won't believe us.

The media will seek out any and all stories to reinforce the stereotype.
In fact, even though they agreed, they blamed the media for their perception, oddly enough.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2018, 05:04:01 pm by GrouchoTex »

Offline Jazzhead

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So, you are just preaching secular humanism again and arrogance, calling people's lives "sideshows".

One's religious faith and moral compass are not "sideshows".    The issue is the role to be played by the government, the coercive state.   The state's job is to guarantee liberty, not coerce a particular vision of morality.   That is a job for persuasion, between free individuals of good will.   As a conservative voter, I evaluate the performance of government based on such things as whether my liberty and that of the marketplace is being supported.   Demands that the state take away the rights and liberties of gays and women are what I mean when I say  "sideshow issues". 

I don't disagree with John Adam's statement - liberty carries with it responsibility, it is not mere license.   And religious faith correlates strongly with personal responsibility.   But the role of the state, under our Constitution, is to guarantee personal liberty and the law's equal protection,  not enforce religious concepts of sin.    You believe homosexuality is a sin?  Fine, then don't practice it.  You believe that the human soul is present at conception?   Fine - then don't have an abortion.  But it is not the state's role to enforce such beliefs.   
« Last Edit: November 16, 2018, 04:55:11 pm by Jazzhead »
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline TomSea

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One's religious faith and moral compass are not "sideshows".    The issue is the role to be played by the government, the coercive state.   The state's job is to guarantee liberty, not coerce a particular vision of morality.   That is a job for persuasion, between free individuals of good will.   As a conservative voter, I evaluate the performance of government based on such things as whether my liberty and that of the marketplace is being supported.   Demands that the state take away the rights and liberties of gays and women are what I mean when I say  "sideshow issues". 

I don't disagree with John Adam's statement - liberty carries with it responsibility, it is not mere license.   And religious faith correlates strongly with personal responsibility.   But the role of the state, under our Constitution, is to guarantee personal liberty and the law's equal protection,  not enforce religious concepts of sin.    You believe homosexuality is a sin?  Fine, then don't practice it.  You believe that the human soul is present at conception?   Fine - then don't have an abortion.  But it is not the state's role to enforce such beliefs.   

Again, your statements are not in line with our founding fathers, you are implementing your own progressive interpretation. The FFs and judges ruled on these issues before.

Excuse me, Adams said a "moral and religious people", is what the Constitution is for and useless without such not what you are saying.

Again, it's on display, these people can not carry out an argument without making things personal. The way some liberals can not carry on a discussion without using the race card.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2018, 05:07:30 pm by TomSea »

Offline TomSea

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"Coercive state", notice these buzzwords to vilify opponents, they can not come up with better. Is it okay to murder a homeless person?  Be cruel to animals? This is the tyranny of relativism, it's all homespun.  The views do not support the Founding Fathers who constructed the Constitution.

Offline GrouchoTex

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This is good, pragmatic advice.    Religious and social causes are best advanced between private citizens.   The government's role is to guarantee individual liberty, not to promote "Christian values".   

Time and demographics will marginalize conservative Christians on the issue of homosexuality.   Young folks are far more accepting than folks of my generation, but most of us are changing too.   The speed at which homosexuals have been accepted as couples in the mainstream of society is astonishing, really -  it's only been two generations or so since the AIDS crisis.    Gay marriage encourages monogamy,  which if you're honest is perfectly congruent with Christian values. 

As for abortion,  most folks want to see abortion safe, legal and rare.    Conservatives of good will should do their level best to persuade their loved ones to do the right thing and provide them the necessary support to do so.   But as for the woman's fundamental right to determine the course of her future,  that is an individual decision that is no business of the State.

Dexter, you are quite correct that the GOP's freedom and opportunity message is blunted when it becomes preoccupied with these sideshow issues.     

Again, it is not a question of being in favor of or opposed to these things.
It is a question of Federal Government overreach.
You are fine with them ignoring the fact that Marriage and Abortion are not in the constitution.
You are not telling the truth when you say these are no business of the state, 180 degrees out of phase.
The very fact is, that they made it their business, or this discussion would not be taking place
Are you unhappy with the decision on Obamacare?
Healthcare isn't in the Constitution, either.

Some day, when they overreach once and give us single payer, or come to the conclusion that housing is a right, how will you feel then?
When you go to get treated for high blood pressure, but they look through your history and find out you eat fast food twice a week, so they deny you treatment.
Or, when they say that you only need 500 square feet of living space for you and your family, and the yard is not necessary and an environmental issue, how will you react?

Over-reach is overreach, regardless of whether or not it achieves the outcome you desire.

Before you start telling me about being backwards, I will remind you that you have no idea of my background, or how i feel about any of these issues.
The only thing you can say with certainty, is that I am opposed on constitutional grounds, including the 1st amendment, which allow people to practice their religious beliefs, even those that don't correspond with the Supreme court's ruling on these issues, or "pragmatism", as described by you and Dexter.

Offline Dexter

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This is true.
However, there is some motivating factor for them to be moral.
It does not have to be religion, but it has to be a belief in something.
If not, they would have no logical reason to be "good people".
FYI,
Christianity isn't the only religion espousing morality.

I think when people are taught morality as children they will often carry that into their adult lives and teach their own children the same thing. I think most good people are good because they don't want to be bad. I think that's all the motivation most of them need. People don't need religion to know that killing and stealing are wrong. Most people don't want to be evil.
"I know one thing, that I know nothing."
-Socrates