Author Topic: Macron rips nationalism as Trump looks on: 'Patriotism is the exact opposite of nationalism'  (Read 1030 times)

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Offline TomSea

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Macron rips nationalism as Trump looks on: 'Patriotism is the exact opposite of nationalism'

 By - Associated Press - Updated: 7:59 a.m. on Sunday, November 11, 2018

French President Emmanuel Macron is warning against the dangers of nationalism in a speech aimed directly at the rising tide of populism in the United States and Europe.

With U.S. President Donald Trump and other world leaders looking on during an Armistice Day centennial observance in Paris on Sunday, Macron said the “ancient demons” that caused World War I and millions of deaths are growing stronger.

“Patriotism is the exact opposite of nationalism. Nationalism is a betrayal of patriotism,” the French leader said.

Read more at: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/nov/11/emmanuel-macron-rips-nationalism-paris-speech-dona/

Just for the record, definition of (from bing.com)

Nationalist -  a person who strongly identifies with their own nation and vigorously supports its interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations.

Patriot -a person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors.

Of course, the catch to nationalist is that, "to the detriment of the interests of other nations", I never would have known that was part of the definition. Look up the definitions for oneself.

Merriam Webster:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nationalism

Not sure if that is much better.  In fact, these definitions make "nationalist"/"nationalism" sound like a dirty word.

« Last Edit: November 11, 2018, 01:41:33 pm by TomSea »

Offline mountaineer

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They're not opposites, they're complementary. 

Not being nationalistic enough is what's destroying European nations like France. They don't have to be the Fourth Reich, just need to look out more for their own borders and their own citizens' interests.
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Offline goodwithagun

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Don’t worry, he’ll tweet about it soon.
I stand with Roosgirl.

Offline The_Reader_David

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They're not opposites, they're complementary. 

Not being nationalistic enough is what's destroying European nations like France. They don't have to be the Fourth Reich, just need to look out more for their own borders and their own citizens' interests.

Your choice of metaphor for extreme nationalism is ironic.  Really hard-core Euroskeptics refer to the EU as "the Fourth Reich" because it is suppressing all nationalisms in favor of all of Europe being united under German leadership (or harking back to the First Reich, Charlemagne's Empire, German/French/Belgian leadership).
And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know what this was all about.

Offline mountaineer

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Yes, I probably just should have said they don't have to emulate Hitler's Germany, as that was my meaning.
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Offline endicom

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They're not opposites, they're complementary. 

Not being nationalistic enough is what's destroying European nations like France. They don't have to be the Fourth Reich, just need to look out more for their own borders and their own citizens' interests.


As the "border crossings" should attest, Nazism was internationalist. Nazism was not nationalist but racial. Nazism required the utmost of big government to control the people.

Trumpian nationalism is quite opposite to the above.

Don't let the frickin' lefties define the terms!




Online Wingnut

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Macron is your typical Euro-weenie.  If you have ever wondered why Europe is rapidly becoming Eurabia look no further than this cheese eating surrender monkey.
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Offline mountaineer

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Don’t worry, he’ll tweet about it soon.
Donald J. Trump  Verified account @realDonaldTrump
2m2 minutes ago

Beautiful ceremony today in Paris commemorating the end of World War One. Many World leaders in attendance. Thank you to @EmmanuelMacron, President of France! Now off to Suresnes American Cemetery to make speech in honor of our great heroes! Then back to the U.S.A.
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Online cato potatoe

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This sort of explains his affinity for Pétain.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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As the "border crossings" should attest, Nazism was internationalist. Nazism was not nationalist but racial. Nazism required the utmost of big government to control the people.

Trumpian nationalism is quite opposite to the above.

Don't let the frickin' lefties define the terms!

 :beer:

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Offline dfwgator

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"The NSDAP is the German Left. We despise bourgeois nationalism."

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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No worries, Macron.  It looks like Germany won the wars after all...


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Frau Merkie is looking more like Moe Howard every day
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Offline truth_seeker

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Macron is speaking (warning) against Trump, and the Euro countries trying to fight off, migrants and EU power.

Macron, France, rescued twice by the US--now lecturing us.


"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Trump was right to slam Macron after the French president naively painted America as the enemy
Fox News, Nov 10, 2018,  Gen. Anthony J. Tata

President Trump was right to tweet an outraged response Saturday to remarks by French President Emmanuel Macron after Macron said in a radio interview that France and Europe need an army to defend against America, Russia and China.

By saying that “we have to protect ourselves with respect to China, Russia and even the United States of America,” Macron naively paints America as a potential enemy. In so doing, he ignores the hundreds of thousands of American lives sacrificed on French and European soil to save the free world during World War I and World War II.

Landing in France Saturday to join leaders of other nations in ceremonies commemorating the 100th anniversary of the end of World War I, President Trump tweeted: “President Macron of France has just suggested that Europe build its own military in order to protect itself from the U.S., China and Russia. Very insulting, but perhaps Europe should first pay its fair share of NATO, which the U.S. subsidizes greatly!”

[...]

Macron could not have levied a greater insult at America and its veterans on this 100th anniversary of the armistice signed between the Allies and Germany on the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month in 1918 to end World War I and, ironically, save Europe. [...]

Macron should be more appreciative of what America has done for France and for all of Europe in the past 100 years. He should take some quiet time for himself and walk among one of the 11 cemeteries maintained by the American Battle Monuments Commission in France where over 60,000 Americans rest eternally, their headstones standing guard against further invasion.


More:  https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/trump-was-right-to-slam-macron-after-the-french-president-naively-painted-america-as-the-enemy

Offline Suppressed

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"The NSDAP is the German Left. We despise bourgeois nationalism."

And if you can't believe Goebbels, who can you believe?!
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Offline skeeter

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And if you can't believe Goebbels, who can you believe?!

True, it does take some discernment to be able to distinguish when it was in his interest to lie and when it wasn't.

Its also true that discernment is a rare commodity these days.

Offline Mod2

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Merging two threads on the Macron-Trump tete-a-tete.

Offline Frank Cannon

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Offline mountaineer

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Boy that Putin is a little twerp.
Did he forget to put lifts in his shoes?
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Boy that Putin is a little twerp.

He was standing in a hole.
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Offline Frank Cannon

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He was standing in a hole.

Chinese collusion? I hear they reverse engineered digging a hole to China.

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Chinese collusion? I hear they reverse engineered digging a hole to China.

Here here! 
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Offline Fishrrman

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"Macron could not have levied a greater insult at America and its veterans on this 100th anniversary of the armistice signed between the Allies and Germany on the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month in 1918 to end World War I and, ironically, save Europe."

Indeed.
What an idiot -- but then, nothing unusual from a typical "leader of the French".

Tonight, 100 years after Armistice Day, I'll spend the evening watching Kubrick's "Paths of Glory", perhaps the most appropriate film by which to observe World War I.

The greatest waste of blood and treasure in human history.

Yet with "leaders" like Macron, the French ensure that they will soon face a new defeat from an enemy that -- although it wears no uniforms -- will be all-but irresistible in the face of their collapsing culture.