Author Topic: How much of your money should the government take?  (Read 2990 times)

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Online Dexter

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Re: How much of your money should the government take?
« Reply #25 on: November 08, 2018, 09:47:45 AM »
Quote
Boeing reported an $82 million tax refund last year, but made $5.9 billion in U.S. pre-tax profits during the same period

Is this reasonable?
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Online Bigun

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Re: How much of your money should the government take?
« Reply #26 on: November 08, 2018, 10:12:06 AM »
You are asking the wrong question.
Why do you automatically assume government is the answer?

Example: It has been a while, but last I looked the average cost to educate a kid via the government was around 10k per year... At the same time, I was paying 6k a year for excellent private Christian school.
@roamer_1

I have a now much dated report from our former Texas Comptroller of Public Accounts (Susan Combs) which shows The state wide average spending per student in our more than 1350 public schools systems to be around $8K and several spending more than twice that amount. That is just for K- 12. Doesn't get into higher education spending at all and much of that higher ed spending (much more than most imagine) goes to remediation efforts to bring the graduates of the afore mentioned K-12 institutions up to speed enough to do college level work. 

Long story short. We are getting royally screwed by public education in Texas and I would be very surprised to find it any different elsewhere.


Susan Combs is a FINE lady and current serves as Department of the Interior Assistant Secretary for Policy, Management, and Budget in the Trump administration.

Offline goatprairie

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Re: How much of your money should the government take?
« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2018, 10:16:52 AM »
Is this reasonable?
Exactly how do you define reasonable? Do taxes exist for legitimate purposes, or are they there, like Obama stated, for "fairness" i.e. punish the rich for making a lot of money?


Online Dexter

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Re: How much of your money should the government take?
« Reply #28 on: November 08, 2018, 10:16:55 AM »
No public education would lead to high rates of illiteracy in the states. Not everybody can afford to pay for a private school. You think crime is bad now? Just wait until people have even less access to education.
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Offline dfwgator

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Re: How much of your money should the government take?
« Reply #29 on: November 08, 2018, 10:17:52 AM »
No public education would lead to high rates of illiteracy in the states. Not everybody can afford to pay for a private school. You think crime is bad now? Just wait until people have even less access to education.

Education should come from State and Local Taxes, Feds need to stay out of it.

Online Dexter

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Re: How much of your money should the government take?
« Reply #30 on: November 08, 2018, 10:18:06 AM »
Do taxes exist for legitimate purposes

Without taxes we cannot be a nation. Their purpose is clear I think.
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Online Dexter

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Re: How much of your money should the government take?
« Reply #31 on: November 08, 2018, 10:19:46 AM »
Education should come from State and Local Taxes, Feds need to stay out of it.

If that can be done without crippling public education I am fine with it. I care about the results. I want people in the United States to be the most educated in the world.
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Online Bigun

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Re: How much of your money should the government take?
« Reply #32 on: November 08, 2018, 10:27:50 AM »
It's ridiculous how many obscenely wealthy corporations and people get away with paying way less taxes than they're meant to in my opinion. If there was a flat tax that was actually enforced on the rich, no bullshit, I think there would be plenty of money.

@Dexter

Here is your one and only Econ 101 lesson from me.  Short and sweet.

Corporations DO NOT pay taxes! Never have and never will.  ALL of those taxes and ALL of their attendant compliance costs accrue to one, or any possible combination of, three possible places:


1. Consumers of the product(s) or service(s) produced as a component of the sales price of those things


2. Employees of the corporation in the form of reduced pay and benefits


3. Stake holders in the corporation in the form of reduced ROI

In all cases ALL of the taxes and their attendant costs of compliance accrue to individual taxpayers and NOT the corporation itself!

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: How much of your money should the government take?
« Reply #33 on: November 08, 2018, 10:30:10 AM »
We need to reacquaint ourselves with the "what for" before we can discuss "how much".  @Dexter
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Online Dexter

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Re: How much of your money should the government take?
« Reply #34 on: November 08, 2018, 10:35:36 AM »
@Dexter

Here is your one and only Econ 101 lesson from me.  Short and sweet.

Corporations DO NOT pay taxes! Never have and never will.  ALL of those taxes and ALL of their attendant compliance costs accrue to one, or any possible combination of, three possible places:


1. Consumers of the product(s) or service(s) produced as a component of the sales price of those things


2. Employees of the corporation in the form of reduced pay and benefits


3. Stake holders in the corporation in the form of reduced ROI

In all cases ALL of the taxes and their attendant costs of compliance accrue to individual taxpayers and NOT the corporation itself!

Thanks for that Bigun. I guess I'm confused though...

if

Corporations DO NOT pay taxes!

then why did Boeing get an 82 million dollar tax refund? I'm not trying to be obtuse; I don't understand.
"I know one thing, that I know nothing."
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Offline dfwgator

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Re: How much of your money should the government take?
« Reply #35 on: November 08, 2018, 10:37:48 AM »
If that can be done without crippling public education I am fine with it. I care about the results. I want people in the United States to be the most educated in the world.

We spend more on public education per student than any other country, and it isn't even close.

The problem is you can't motivate someone to learn who doesn't want to.

Offline DCPatriot

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Re: How much of your money should the government take?
« Reply #36 on: November 08, 2018, 10:41:00 AM »
Thanks for that Bigun. I guess I'm confused though...

if

Corporations DO NOT pay taxes!

then why did Boeing get an 82 million dollar tax refund? I'm not trying to be obtuse; I don't understand.

Perhaps it was set up that way as payment/reimbursement for just-completed Contract?
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Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: How much of your money should the government take?
« Reply #37 on: November 08, 2018, 10:51:16 AM »
It's ridiculous how many obscenely wealthy corporations and people get away with paying way less taxes than they're meant to in my opinion. If there was a flat tax that was actually enforced on the rich, no bullshit, I think there would be plenty of money.

Corporations merely "collect" the tax.
When you buy any goods or services, the taxes  they have to pay are built into the price you pay.
A flat tax or national sales (VAT tax) could work fine.
It would keep the Congress from writing into law tax breaks for their donors.

Online Bigun

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Re: How much of your money should the government take?
« Reply #38 on: November 08, 2018, 10:52:03 AM »
Thanks for that Bigun. I guess I'm confused though...

if

Corporations DO NOT pay taxes!

then why did Boeing get an 82 million dollar tax refund? I'm not trying to be obtuse; I don't understand.

Money does move back and forth between the government's coffers and those of corporations but that has nothing at all to do with where the costs, ALL of them, eventually accrue.  Large corporations typically employ an army of accountants and tax attorneys and the costs of doing that winds up at the destination(s) I have already described.

Online mirraflake

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Re: How much of your money should the government take?
« Reply #39 on: November 08, 2018, 10:52:24 AM »
@Dexter



Corporations DO NOT pay taxes! Never have and never will.


My wife and I own 3 companies (corporations)   Trust me we pay taxes at the end of the corporate year.

@Bigun

Online Bigun

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Re: How much of your money should the government take?
« Reply #40 on: November 08, 2018, 10:56:29 AM »
Corporations merely "collect" the tax.
When you buy any goods or services, the taxes  they have to pay are built into the price you pay.
A flat tax or national sales (VAT tax) could work fine.
It would keep the Congress from writing into law tax breaks for their donors.

 888high58888  But forget about anything based on INCOME such as a flat rate INCOME tax.  That taxes the exact wrong end of the spectrum and necessarily retains the IRS!  The funders had it figured out and we should return to what they universally advised. Taxes on articles of consumption only!

Online Dexter

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Re: How much of your money should the government take?
« Reply #41 on: November 08, 2018, 10:58:48 AM »
Taxes on articles of consumption only!

How much of what the government currently pays for would we have to cut back on if we did that? Could we even pay for our military as is?
"I know one thing, that I know nothing."
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Online Bigun

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Re: How much of your money should the government take?
« Reply #42 on: November 08, 2018, 11:00:28 AM »
My wife and I own 3 companies (corporations)   Trust me we pay taxes at the end of the corporate year.

@Bigun

@mirraflake

No you don't!  You merely collect them, along with ALL of your compliance costs, to one of the three places I detailed in my post to Dexter above. If you don't you will soon be an ex business owner.

Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: How much of your money should the government take?
« Reply #43 on: November 08, 2018, 11:03:36 AM »
888high58888  But forget about anything based on INCOME such as a flat rate INCOME tax.  That taxes the exact wrong end of the spectrum and necessarily retains the IRS!  The funders had it figured out and we should return to what they universally advised. Taxes on articles of consumption only!

I would agree, and would rather have a consumption tax than an income tax.
But, if we have an income tax, I'd rather it be a flat tax than the way it is now.

Online Bigun

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Re: How much of your money should the government take?
« Reply #44 on: November 08, 2018, 11:03:59 AM »
How much of what the government currently pays for would we have to cut back on if we did that? Could we even pay for our military as is?

None!

Educate yourself here https://fairtax.org/research-library/taxes-and-tax-reform

Offline catfish1957

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Re: How much of your money should the government take?
« Reply #45 on: November 08, 2018, 11:04:06 AM »
My wife and I own 3 companies (corporations)   Trust me we pay taxes at the end of the corporate year.

@Bigun

As a corp./ company your taxes are part of a business expense.   You "never" passed that cost down to your customers/consumers?
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Online skeeter

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Re: How much of your money should the government take?
« Reply #46 on: November 08, 2018, 11:06:10 AM »
Corporations merely "collect" the tax.
When you buy any goods or services, the taxes  they have to pay are built into the price you pay.
A flat tax or national sales (VAT tax) could work fine.
It would keep the Congress from writing into law tax breaks for their donors.

My wife and I have both sole proprietorships and a corporation. When paying taxes I sure can't discern the difference.

Online Bigun

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Re: How much of your money should the government take?
« Reply #47 on: November 08, 2018, 11:09:29 AM »
My wife and I have both sole proprietorships and a corporation. When paying taxes I sure can't discern the difference.

@skeeter

And that is by design!  It does not however change the economic realties I have laid out above one iota.

Online mirraflake

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Re: How much of your money should the government take?
« Reply #48 on: November 08, 2018, 11:13:31 AM »
@mirraflake

No you don't!  You merely collect them, along with ALL of your compliance costs, to one of the three places I detailed in my post to Dexter above. If you don't you will soon be an ex business owner.

1. Consumers of the product(s) or service(s) produced as a component of the sales price of those things
In todays highly competitive marketplace, online competition etc  if you add on to the consumer price people will stop buying from you. Many times corporations have to eat the increased cost. If it was so easy to just increase prices lol

2. Employees of the corporation in the form of reduced pay and benefits

If we did that to our employees today, their butts would be out the door  after their their two week notice. We have had to increase pay and benefits to keep employees.


3. Stake holders in the corporation in the form of reduced ROI

Yep we have taken a pay cut. Guess what? we still pay taxes on profits at the end of the year.


I'm going to tell my wife tonight we don't pay any corporates taxes. She need a laugh.

I work with hundreds of corporations and trust me 1. they just don't increase the price of their product or service, nearly all my business groups are increasing pay and benefits and yes most have less in their own paycheck

@Bigun

Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: How much of your money should the government take?
« Reply #49 on: November 08, 2018, 11:16:49 AM »
My wife and I own 3 companies (corporations)   Trust me we pay taxes at the end of the corporate year.

@Bigun

Not really true.

Example:

Let's say you need to sell your goods or service that you provide at $100.00 to make a profit, pay bills, employees, etc, without taxes.
Now, the Government comes along and say "give me 1/3" and you now have to sell your product for $150.00 to make the same profit you did at $100.00
Yes, you are writing the check to the IRS, but the people who are your customers are actually paying the tax.
You are merely collecting it from your customers.


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