Author Topic: Oil refiners threaten to sue Trump over ethanol  (Read 4720 times)

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Offline Elderberry

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Oil refiners threaten to sue Trump over ethanol
« on: October 10, 2018, 12:43:52 pm »
Washington Examiner by John Siciliano | October 09, 2018

President Trump will likely find himself in court over his Tuesday night decision to allow 15-percent ethanol fuel be sold year-round across the nation, according to the refinery industry's top lobbyist.

“The President’s proposal to waive the rules for E15 is unlawful and could actually make the problems of the Renewable Fuel Standard worse," Chet Thompson, president and CEO of the American Fuel and Petrochemical Manufacturers, said in a statement.

A spokeswoman for the refinery group told the Washington Examiner that it is "likely" the group will sue the administration for going ahead with the plan.

"Yes, it’s likely," said spokeswoman Ericka Perryman. She pointed out that Thompson had made clear earlier in an interview with Reuters that legal action is the only definite thing to come from Trump's action. “The only certainty from today’s actions is a lawsuit,” he said.

More: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/energy/oil-refiners-threaten-to-sue-trump-over-ethanol

Offline Elderberry

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Re: Oil refiners threaten to sue Trump over ethanol
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2018, 12:45:59 pm »
In boon for farmers, Trump lifts restrictions on ethanol

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,335805.0.html

The Trump administration is moving to allow year-round sales of gasoline with higher blends of ethanol, a boon for Iowa and other farm states that have pushed for greater sales of the corn-based fuel.

President Donald Trump announced he is lifting a federal ban on summer sales of high-ethanol blends during a trip to Iowa on Tuesday.

"Today we are unleashing the power of E15 to fuel our country all year long," Trump said at a campaign rally, referring to gasoline blends with up to 15 percent ethanol.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/politics/article/In-boon-for-farmers-Trump-lifting-restrictions-13291804.php

Offline thackney

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Offline Elderberry

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Re: Oil refiners threaten to sue Trump over ethanol
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2018, 01:26:38 pm »
Gasoline - Not Corn Alcohol - Belongs In Our Fuel Tanks

https://www.ipi.org/ipi_issues/detail/gasoline-not-corn-alcohol-belongs-in-our-fuel-tanks

President Donald Trump frequently boasts of his success in rolling back costly and harmful regulations. Let's hope that effort includes the renewable fuel standard (RFS).

The RFS is the latest phase in Congress's decades-long support for the ethanol industry. The problem is that support has outlived its usefulness.

When U.S. crude oil production began to decline in the mid-1970s and Middle Eastern countries began restricting oil exports to punish the U.S. for its pro-Israel policies, Congress decided to act.

It began subsidizing ethanol, a mostly corn-based renewable fuel that is blended into gasoline. The goal was to reduce U.S. dependence on imported oil while creating a sustainable and more environmentally friendly alternative to gasoline.

But Congress took a different approach in 2005 when it passed the Energy Policy Act, which created the renewable fuel standard. The new law mandated that 4 billion gallons of ethanol be mixed into gasoline beginning in 2006.

Then Congress vastly expanded the mandate in 2007 when it passed the Energy Independence and Security Act, which required a minimum of 36 billion gallons of ethanol to be mixed into gasoline by 2022.

While that expansion may have seemed reasonable a decade ago, it no longer does.

The primary reason is that the RFS mandate was created just when the U.S. fracking boom was taking off.

Innovative drilling techniques have allowed the U.S. to become the world's leading crude oil and natural gas producer. Oil production is high and prices are low.

By contrast, the ethanol mandate has pushed corn prices up by at least a third -- and often much higher -- since 2005.

The U.S. has become a net exporter of natural gas, and we could become a net crude oil exporter within five to 10 years.

Energy independence, which means energy security, is just around the corner. Thus the justification for mandating ethanol usage has largely vanished and may even be counterproductive.

Second, the environmental friendliness of ethanol is being reconsidered. Many environmental groups now realize that planting, growing and harvesting corn -- about 40 percent of U.S. field corn becomes ethanol -- takes large amounts of energy and water. And then the corn must be shipped to a processing plant and an oil refinery to mix in with the gasoline.

Another pressing problem is that more and more ethanol must be blended into gasoline every year. But gasoline usage has leveled off, which means that to meet the mandated ethanol goal the blend will have to rise from the current 10 percent to 15 percent or more.

And then there's the refiners' challenge. Philadelphia Energy Solutions, the largest refinery on the East Coast, recently filed for bankruptcy, blaming the RFS.

Refiners that don't meet their goal of mixing ethanol have to buy a type of credit, known as RINs, which can be very costly.

The management consulting company McKinsey & Co. recently reported that the credits translated into an additional cost of up to $4 barrel. For example, Valero Energy has projected annual spend on RINs in 2016 could total $850 million." That ain't chump change!

RINs represent government at its worst. They redistribute huge amounts of money without producing one drop of useable fuel.

Offline endicom

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Re: Oil refiners threaten to sue Trump over ethanol
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2018, 01:27:15 pm »

I hope they win the lawsuit. We will be spared E15 and the GOP will be off the hook.


Offline endicom

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Online Bigun

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Re: Oil refiners threaten to sue Trump over ethanol
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2018, 01:30:30 pm »
Quote
The Trump administration is moving to allow year-round sales of gasoline with higher blends of ethanol...

Allowing is just fine with me!  When nobody buys the crap maybe it will just go away!  I wish he would allow the sale of gas without ANY ethanol and let the market decide what they want!
 
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Oil refiners threaten to sue Trump over ethanol
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2018, 01:37:30 pm »
In boon for farmers, Trump lifts restrictions on ethanol
But destructive to everyone else.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline TomSea

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Re: Oil refiners threaten to sue Trump over ethanol
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2018, 01:47:00 pm »
President GW Bush started the ethanol program even at the dissent of Republicans at that time.

https://csnews.com/president-bush-enlists-ethanol

Offline Elderberry

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Re: Oil refiners threaten to sue Trump over ethanol
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2018, 01:53:26 pm »

Offline mirraflake

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Re: Oil refiners threaten to sue Trump over ethanol
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2018, 01:54:48 pm »
We have a local station that has a pump of non ethanol 93 octane.  I run it  on all my weedwackers, lawnmowers, old farm tractor  etc

You can clearly hear and feel the difference over ethanol gas and I get way more hours per hour from non ethanol in my older farm tractor. 

Offline thackney

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Re: Oil refiners threaten to sue Trump over ethanol
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2018, 02:05:00 pm »

I recall some Chrysler flex-fuel vehicles so I'm doubting that table.

Read the description under the title.  Non-flex fuel vehicles.
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Offline thackney

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Re: Oil refiners threaten to sue Trump over ethanol
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2018, 02:06:27 pm »
Allowing is just fine with me!  When nobody buys the crap maybe it will just go away!  I wish he would allow the sale of gas without ANY ethanol and let the market decide what they want!

This would be to replace the E10 that many have no choice to buy otherwise with E15.

There are no non-ethanol gasoline retail pumps in non-attainment areas like Houston.
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Online Bigun

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Re: Oil refiners threaten to sue Trump over ethanol
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2018, 02:09:21 pm »
This would be to replace the E10 that many have no choice to buy otherwise with E15.

There are no non-ethanol gasoline retail pumps in non-attainment areas like Houston.

I know there are currently none but that does not mean there shouldn't be any! 
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Oil refiners threaten to sue Trump over ethanol
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2018, 02:12:33 pm »
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline Elderberry

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Re: Oil refiners threaten to sue Trump over ethanol
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2018, 02:12:42 pm »

There are no non-ethanol gasoline retail pumps in non-attainment areas like Houston.

I saw on the ethanol-free list that there is a station in Alvin, but they only fill portable tanks for boats and such. They will Not fill an automobile.

Offline thackney

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Re: Oil refiners threaten to sue Trump over ethanol
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2018, 02:14:22 pm »
I know there are currently none but that does not mean there shouldn't be any!

But you said "when nobody buys...".  We don't have a choice not to buy in these areas.
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Oil refiners threaten to sue Trump over ethanol
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2018, 02:14:47 pm »
Ethanol is a boondoggle.

Online Bigun

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Re: Oil refiners threaten to sue Trump over ethanol
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2018, 02:17:05 pm »
But you said "when nobody buys...".  We don't have a choice not to buy in these areas.

Did you read what I said?  IF they had a choice, very few would buy gasoline watered down with ethanol!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online Bigun

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Re: Oil refiners threaten to sue Trump over ethanol
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2018, 02:17:43 pm »
Ethanol is a boondoggle.

Yup!  Always has been! 
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Oil refiners threaten to sue Trump over ethanol
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2018, 03:15:17 am »
Ethanol is a boondoggle.
It is far more than that.

It is a political move and some can even argue it is an evil move as one is taking food out of the mouths of a hungry world.

God gave this earth plenty of fuel in the form of hydrocarbons to heat our houses and fuel out engines.  And it is better suited for that purpose than is ethanol.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Oil refiners threaten to sue Trump over ethanol
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2018, 03:20:53 am »
And this is why I hate farmers. They are all corrupt to the core and a bunch of welfare queens.

Online Bigun

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Re: Oil refiners threaten to sue Trump over ethanol
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2018, 03:40:35 am »
It is far more than that.

It is a political move and some can even argue it is an evil move as one is taking food out of the mouths of a hungry world.

God gave this earth plenty of fuel in the form of hydrocarbons to heat our houses and fuel out engines.  And it is better suited for that purpose than is ethanol.

And that doesn't even begin to cover it all.  Ethanol can be made from things other than food grains and, in some cases, far less expensively. 
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Oil refiners threaten to sue Trump over ethanol
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2018, 07:14:34 am »
So, what is the big surprise. One of the very first promises Trump made was in Iowa during the primaries where he said he'd use the full power of the EPA to enforce the ethanol mandate and increse it, if he could.

That's when I decided that I was in support of Cruz, who had the guts to stand up to the Farm Lobby there and say he'd let the Market decide, then sold the idea to the farmers.

It was the Governor of Iowa who had schmoozed with Trump who said Cruz needed to be defeated, whatever it took, and despite Cruz winning the Caucus, the smears really started after that. The Governor's son was at the time a lobbyist for the ethanol lobby.
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Oil refiners threaten to sue Trump over ethanol
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2018, 09:10:31 am »
So, what is the big surprise. One of the very first promises Trump made was in Iowa during the primaries where he said he'd use the full power of the EPA to enforce the ethanol mandate and increse it, if he could.

That's when I decided that I was in support of Cruz, who had the guts to stand up to the Farm Lobby there and say he'd let the Market decide, then sold the idea to the farmers.

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