Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates

[Formerly Once-Ler]

@Once-Ler  You might find this article of interest.

Thank you. @TomSea

[TomSea]

https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu  Turkish journalist who tweets a lot of informative information. As said earlier, most everything is not officially said by the Turkish government.

Ragıp Soylu
‏Verified account @ragipsoylu
2h2 hours ago

Axios: Pompeo told Prince Mohammed bin Salman on Tuesday that he had 72 hours to complete his "investigation" into the murder of #Khashoggi
0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes

Good lord! Look at this tweet:

Ragıp Soylu
‏Verified account @ragipsoylu
3h3 hours ago

Updates on #Khashoggi case:
• AJ/Turkish media: Police is investigating 2 locations in Istanbul for the corpse, based on car routes
• Pictures show Diplomat/Soldier close to MBS was at the Consulate (Sabah)
• One member of Saudi Hit team killed in Saudi Arabia (Yeni Safak)

Next tweet does show the stop in Houston and this Mutreb fellow. He might be a physician, one who carried out some of the dirty work.

Ragıp Soylu
‏Verified account @ragipsoylu
14h14 hours ago

NYT yesterday confirmed the identity of  Mutreb among Saudi Hit squad that allegedly killed #Khashoggi at the Istanbul Consulate. 

Now Sabah published his pictures tying him to the crime scene.

NYT says he was a diplomat in London in 2007, travels extensively with Crown Prince

From another tweet, showing Mutreb at the consul.


I think, too, the tweets say the Police have found a corpse in Istanbul and are checking into it.

Again, as the prior post says, a lot of this is just from sources, not confirmed statements.

[TomSea]

Khashoggi probe: Suspicious Saudi van leads Turkish police to woodland

Investigators and sniffer dogs are combing new areas after tracking movements of diplomatic vehicle, source tells MEE

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/khashoggi-probe-suspicious-van-leads-turkish-police-woodland-1379135219

A lot of people have withdrawn from an investment convention in KSA, "Davos in the Desert"
https://mg.co.za/article/2018-10-18-magda-wierzycka-on-why-she-opted-out-of-davos-in-the-desert-summit

[edpc]

Trump says it looks like Saudi journalist Khashoggi is dead


WASHINGTON/ISTANBUL (Reuters) - President Donald Trump said on Thursday he presumes journalist Jamal Khashoggi is dead and that the U.S. response to Saudi Arabia will likely be “very severe” but that he still wanted to get to the bottom of what exactly happened.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-saudi-politics-dissident-search/trump-says-it-looks-like-saudi-journalist-khashoggi-is-dead-idUSKCN1MS08Q?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Reuters%2FworldNews+%28Reuters+World+News%29&utm_content=Yahoo+Search+Results


Extremely pathetic equivocation from the President and SoS in this story.

[TomSea]

• One member of Saudi Hit team killed in Saudi Arabia (Yeni Safak)

Per above, even Rush mentioned this and said how it was playing out a bit like a James Bond thriller, killed in a car wreck.

Saudi press keeps on coming up with defenses. Someone said their defenses were weak but I don't know myself.

Khashoggi’s alleged fiancée and ties to radical ‘charity’ linked to ISIS, Qaeda
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/gulf/2018/10/18/Khashoggi-s-alleged-fianc-e-and-ties-to-a-radical-charity-linked-to-ISIS-al-Qaeda.html

Then, it gets rather long-winded per explanation.

[TomSea]

'Forced to hide our names': Anonymous Saudi clerics call for bin Salman to go

Group claiming to speak for scholars opposed to government policies say crown prince should carry blame for Jamal Khashoggi's suspected killing

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/saudi-scholars-group-calls-removal-mbs-light-khashoggi-case-362661960

The clerics though, are against Western influence. So, this is not some clear choice to me.

[edpc]

Pompeo listened to an alleged recording of the murder of Jamal Khashoggi: Turkish Source

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has heard an alleged audio recording of Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi's murder inside the Saudi consulate in Istanbul, according to a senior Turkish official.

Speaking exclusively and on condition of anonymity to ABC News, the official claimed the recording was played in meetings in Turkey on Wednesday, and that Pompeo was given a transcript of the recordings.

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/pompeo-listened-alleged-recording-murder-jamal-khashoggi-source-224003979--abc-news-topstories.html

[TomSea]

FWIW and I think it's the same ABC story:

The White House referred questions to the State Department which denied Pompeo had heard the recording or seen a transcript.

"Secretary Pompeo has neither heard a tape nor has he seen a transcript related to Jamal Khashoggi’s disappearance," said State Department spokeswoman Heather Nauert

https://abcnews.go.com/International/pompeo-listened-alleged-recording-murder-jamal-khashoggi-source/story?id=58595725

Could be just an official denial though, really. The article is titled that he heard the alleged recording per that source.

[edpc]

FWIW and I think it's the same ABC story:

Could be just an official denial though, really. The article is titled that he heard the alleged recording per that source.

Yes, they’re basically the same story.  Additionally, Pompeo also said this...


Yesterday, on his way back from Istanbul, Pompeo was asked if he had heard the audio.

"I don’t have anything to say about that," he said.


He’s heard it.  Whether it’s authentic and can be confirmed may be another story.

[TomSea]

Here, this Washington Times story confirms what I heard elsewhere,  Turkey is basically milking this....I guess, that is to say, this is a bit of a political football and quite a few other countries might do the same given the same circumstances.

Turkey exploits Khashoggi diplomatic crisis to poke at Saudi Arabia, Trump
Recep Tayyip Erdogan slowly -- some say strategically -- leaks out grisly details of investigation

 By Gilgamesh Nabeel and Jacob Wirtschafter — Special to The Washington Times - - Thursday, October 18, 2018

ISTANBUL — It’s an odd mix of outrage, fear, bafflement and a sneaking undertone of satisfaction as Turks watch the international drama over the fate of U.S.-based Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi play out on the streets.

The outrage and fear spring from concerns that Saudi Arabia, a diplomatic dissenter and historic rival for influence in the Islamic world, would feel empowered to dispatch a “hit team” into the heart of Turkey’s largest city to take out a meddlesome critic.

The satisfaction, building as the government of President Recep Tayyip Erdogan slowly — some say strategically — dribbles out grisly details of the investigation, fueling a building international outrage against Riyadh and ambitious Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman.

Read more at: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/oct/18/jamal-khashoggi-killing-gives-turkey-chance-hit-sa/

And Iran and Qatar, probably look at this as well, and are enjoying the rut it's putting the Saudis into.

[edpc]

The satisfaction, building as the government of President Recep Tayyip Erdogan slowly — some say strategically — dribbles out grisly details of the investigation, fueling a building international outrage against Riyadh and ambitious Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman.


Of course.  Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Turkey are all vying for dominance in the region.

[TomSea]

Conservatives mount a whisper campaign smearing Jamal Khashoggi in defense of Trump
Robert Costa, Karoun Demirjian

Hard-line Republicans and conservative commentators are mounting a dark whisper campaign against Jamal Khashoggi that is designed to protect President Donald Trump from criticism of his handling of the dissident journalist's alleged murder by Saudi Arabia operatives - and support Trump's continued aversion to a forceful response to the oil-rich desert kingdom.

In recent days, a cadre of conservative House Republicans allied with Trump has been privately exchanging articles from right-wing outlets that fuel suspicion of Khashoggi, highlighting his association with the Muslim Brotherhood in his youth and raising conspiratorial questions about his work decades ago as an embedded reporter covering Osama bin Laden, according to four GOP officials involved in the discussions who were not authorized to speak publicly.

Those aspersions - which many lawmakers have been wary of stating publicly because of the political risks of doing so - have begun to flare into public view as conservative media outlets have amplified the claims, which are aimed in part at protecting Trump as he works to preserve the U.S.-Saudi relationship and avoid confronting the Saudis on human rights.

Read more at: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-conservative-whisper-campaign-khashoggi-20181018-story.html

Commenting on the Washington Post piece:

Marco Rubio
‏Verified account @marcorubio

Going gangster on a writer wasn’t just immoral,it was disrespectful to Trump & to those of us who have supported the Saudi’s. They gave Ayatollah a gift & us a controversy. So instead of attacking #Khashoggi,be angry at whoever ordered the Code Red on him.

https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/1053262225576771585

[mountaineer]

Razor    @hale_razor
Oct 18

So weird that Hillary hasn't yet criticized the Saudi government that donated over $10 million to her slush fund.

On a more serious note:

Ryan Saavedra   Verified account @RealSaavedra
5m5 minutes ago

BREAKING: Saudi Arabia admits journalist Jamal Khashoggi was killed in the consulate in Istanbul, claims that he was killed after he got into a fight with people in the consulate.

Saudi Arabia says it has detained 18 Saudi nationals after a preliminary investigation.

[Gefn]

Good gravy, RIP.

This is so dang sad. He could write. He didn’t deserve this.

[edpc]

BREAKING: Saudi Arabia admits journalist Jamal Khashoggi was killed in the consulate in Istanbul, claims that he was killed after he got into a fight with people in the consulate.



Fighting people who are coming at you with sedatives and bone saws is bound to happen.

[TomSea]

Thanks to @mountaineer and @edpc  for breaking that latest news and thanks to everyone. I'm thinking we can keep this thread open for more or less, another week. This sad chapter's first stage seems to be closing.

There is a website, MEMO, It's Middle East Monitor but it's kind of wicked to Western eyes, it's more or less, a Palestinian propaganda site, they are running this story:

Saudi prince: ‘The King ordered Khashoggi’s death and Mohammed bin Salman carried it out’
October 19, 2018 at 2:00 am | Published in: Asia & Americas, Europe & Russia, Middle East, News, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, US   

Dissident Saudi Prince Khalid bin Farhan Al-Saud has demanded King Salman bin Abdulaziz to abdicate the throne in favour of his brother Prince Ahmed bin Abdulaziz after the disappearance of journalist Jamal Khashoggi; an incident that has provoked international outrage.

Prince Khalid bin Farhan, who lives currently in Germany, said:  “King Salman’s royal line should not be imposed as a fourth kingship. Your brothers were kings, and you also became one. It is not Saudi Arabia’s absolute fate that one of your grandchildren becomes the ruler, and then the rest of your offspring monopolises the thrown afterwards. Among the Saudi Royalty, there are highly cultivated, and humane princes with a good educational level and they are popular outside and even inside the ruling family.”

During an interview with the German DW TV, The Saudi prince also stated: “Your brother Ahmed bin Abdulaziz is highly ethical, and you are aware of this, not only you but the whole royal family and the Saudi people realise it. So, the wise thing to do, if you have any wisdom left, is to abdicate the throne in his favour and save what remained of your dignity.”

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20181019-saudi-prince-the-king-ordered-khashoggis-death-and-mohammed-bin-salman-carried-it-out/

So, I suppose if this was a tv interview, the interview happened, I doubt if the rest of this is true. It certainly would not be good news for us. Some of those stories at MEMO are not believable. But it's worth looking around to see what people are saying.

[TomSea]

Mark Knoller
‏Verified account @markknoller

More than once, Pres Trump said he would "prefer" if US retribution against Saudi Arabia does not mean cancelling its $110-billion order for America-made weapon systems. He says that could cost 600,000 jobs. But won't announce a US response till he speaks to the Crown Prince.

https://twitter.com/markknoller/status/1053448155587637248

600,000 jobs, that figure has been questioned. $110-billion obviously is a handsome sum.

[corbe]

   6 months ago I was silently grateful for the progress Kushner had made with the Saudi's, now it is a CF with no clean exit.

[edpc]

600,000 jobs, that figure has been questioned. $110-billion obviously is a handsome sum.

He didn’t waste any time canceling the Boeing contracts by re-imposing Iran sanctions.

[TomSea]

Human Rights Watch, HRW:

Turkey: Seek UN Inquiry on Khashoggi
October 18, 2018 10:58AM EDT

(New York) – Turkey should urgently ask UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres to establish a United Nations investigation into the possible extrajudicial execution of the prominent Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi, the Committee to Protect Journalists, Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, and Reporters Without Borders said today.

The investigation should determine the circumstances surrounding Saudi Arabia’s role in the enforced disappearance and possible killing of Khashoggi. It should aim to identify everyone responsible for ordering, planning, and executing any operations connected with the case.

“Turkey should enlist the UN to initiate a timely, credible, and transparent investigation” said Robert Mahoney, deputy executive director of the Committee to Protect Journalists. “UN involvement is the best guarantee against a Saudi whitewash or attempts by other governments to sweep the issue under the carpet to preserve lucrative business ties with Riyadh.”

Read more at: https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/10/18/turkey-seek-un-inquiry-khashoggi

[TomSea]

Some of those countries are kill and be killed. Of course, there would be limits to this, but Pakistan, Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, all would seem to fit that mode.

An interesting tweet, rather true or not....on Khashoggi:

S. Rifai
‏ @THE_47th

Jamal DM’d me in 2012, inquiring about Assad’s siege of civilians in Baba Amro in Homs, #Syria. He asked me how he cd help smuggle out the kids and elderly people who were injured after the non stop shelling of the city. I know of at least 3 people who are alive because of him.
8:47 PM - 19 Oct 2018

https://twitter.com/THE_47th/status/1053492866100744197

[Applewood]

Thank you @TomSea for compiling all the news about this matter.  How much of what has been reported is true is anyone's guess.  I doubt we will ever know the truth. 

A liberal friend of mine was saying conservatives really don't care about Mr. KhashoggI and have used this tragedy to slam him because he worked for the Washington Post ("fake news"), that he was a Muslim, maybe he had ties to terrorists and such.  I don't know where she saw,  heard or read this.  Until this tragedy, I wasn't really familiar with Mr. Khashoggi and couldn't form an opinion of him one way or the other.    Even if I didn't like his work -- the man is dead in most likely a horrific manner and he had a fiancee and other people who cared about him.  What I might have thought about him doesn't matter now.  Time to put any animosity aside.   The man and his family deserve justice and I sincerely hope they get it.  Of course, whether they will get justice is another matter.

[edpc]

A liberal friend of mine was saying conservatives really don't care about Mr. KhashoggI and have used this tragedy to slam him because he worked for the Washington Post ("fake news"), that he was a Muslim, maybe he had ties to terrorists and such.  I don't know where she saw,  heard or read this.  Until this tragedy, I wasn't really familiar with Mr. Khashoggi and couldn't form an opinion of him one way or the other.    Even if I didn't like his work -- the man is dead in most likely a horrific manner and he had a fiancee and other people who cared about him.  What I might have thought about him doesn't matter now.  Time to put any animosity aside.   The man and his family deserve justice and I sincerely hope they get it.  Of course, whether they will get justice is another matter.

Worst of all, the Saudis have been caught outright lying about the killing.  Since then, they’ve been confronted with more and more evidence, until they were allowed to manufacture this ridiculous current explanation.  At the very least, the official US response to this looked like amateur hour.  At the worst, the handling points to an executive who is compromised.

[bigheadfred]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/20/us-ready-to-move-on-from-khashoggi-case-but-will-turkey-play-along

Something else to look forward to, here:  https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiE6I-piZXeAhVh74MKHdkjBJoQFjACegQIBxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fworld%2F2018%2Faug%2F22%2Fsaudi-arabia-seeks-its-first-death-penalty-against-a-female-human-rights-activist&usg=AOvVaw3TOIU6KYu6v1ZluwUP6HRM

[Victoria33]

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