Saudi Arabian Crisis Live Thread: Latest Updates

[TomSea]

Turkey believes Saudi journalist was murdered in consulate: report
By TM - October 7, 2018

Jamal Khashoggi / AFP PHOTOS

Turkish police have concluded that prominent Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi was murdered inside the Saudi mission in Istanbul after going missing Tuesday, AFP reported, citing an unnamed government official.

“Based on their initial findings, the police believe that the journalist was killed by a team especially sent to İstanbul and who left the same day,” the official told AFP.

The news came hours after police confirmed that around 15 Saudis, including officials, arrived in Istanbul on two flights on Tuesday and were at the consulate at the same time as the journalist.

Read more at: https://www.turkishminute.com/2018/10/07/turkey-believes-saudi-journalist-was-murdered-in-consulate-reports/

https://apnews.com/ba7563845ebe473b887bff0ed42817a5/Washington-Post:-Turkish-officials-say-Saudi-writer-killed?utm_medium=AP&utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=SocialFlow

I'd lean towards thinking this fellow was murdered there, he had contributed to the Washington Post. I would hope he could just be held prisoner.

[TomSea]

Where Is Jamal Khashoggi?
Graeme Wood
The Saudi journalist urged his Kingdom toward reform—and may have paid a terrible price for his dissent.

On Tuesday, a Saudi citizen named Jamal Khashoggi entered his country’s consulate in Istanbul, attempting to get a routine document relating to his impending marriage to a Turkish woman. His fiancée waited for him to emerge. He did not—at least not in a form she could see—and for the last several days, the Middle East has speculated about his fate. On Saturday, Reuters and others reported that Khashoggi had been murdered inside, and some reports added that his dismembered corpse had been smuggled out in multiple parcels. The Saudis say he left the consulate freely.

Two months ago I saw Khashoggi, intact and eating a salmon benedict for breakfast in London. Among Saudi exiles, Khashoggi was famous enough to have to take precautions about where he appeared publicly—not, he said, because he feared assassination, but because in some places frequented by Arabs he might be seen, and have his breakfast interrupted. He wore a pastel suit without a tie, and when he stood up I noted that he was tall, with a big head that sat on his shoulders like a pale white pumpkin. He was 59.

Khashoggi was a dissident. But dissent from the Saudi monarchy takes forms that might surprise Western liberals. A handful of Saudi dissidents have called for abolition of the Saudi monarchy, or secularization of Saudi Arabia so it resembles Western states. Khashoggi moved in Western circles—he wrote a column for The Washington Post and was well-connected in both London and D.C.—but he did not dream of transforming Riyadh into either. He dissented from his rulers only modestly, and in our conversation he affirmed his allegiance to the king and acknowledged that the House of Al Saud should rule the Kingdom in perpetuity. He contested certain policies that the crown prince had implemented or was preparing to implement, in his view unwisely.

Read more at: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/where-is-jamal-khashoggi/572434/

[TomSea]

This reporter Kashoggi, covered the Afghanistan war with the USSR in the 1980s and was embedded with Osama bin Laden but bin Laden just happened to be in the insurgency where he was reporting. His cousin was Adnan Kashoggi, per the article, a big arms dealer. Some are familiar with him.

This article from the Sydney Morning Herald gives more info on him.

The stories all say, he went to the Saudi consul in Istanbul to get a marriage document to marry his fiance. There is no real proof that he has been killed. It's sort of a mystery at this point.

Khashoggi's fine line between Osama bin Laden and a Saudi Crown prince
Liz Sly
8 October 2018 —

Beirut: Perhaps nowhere in the world was the news of Donald Trump's election as president greeted with greater joy than in Saudi Arabia, whose rulers had chafed at his predecessor's outreach to their arch-foe Iran and welcomed the prospect of a Republican president more in line with Saudi thinking.

One Saudi dissented from the otherwise overwhelming acclaim. Jamal Khashoggi, 59, a veteran journalist and opinion-maker, expressed misgivings about the implications of Trump's presidency for the Middle East. He cautioned that Trump's anti-Muslim sentiments and seeming closeness to Russian President Vladimir Putin would jeopardise Saudi interests, and thought the royal family's trust in him was misplaced.

For those views, reported in The Washington Post and articulated in tweets and at a Washington think tank, he was ordered by the Saudi authorities to stop writing and speaking publicly, unleashing a chain of events that may have culminated in his disappearance and possible death inside Saudi Arabia's consulate in Istanbul last week.

Read more at: https://www.smh.com.au/world/middle-east/khashoggi-s-fine-line-between-osama-bin-laden-and-a-saudi-crown-prince-20181008-p508cu.html

Also interesting is the mention of this Washington DC think tank, "New American":

https://www.newamerica.org/    Seems to be a left-leaning think tank. I'm looking at some of their articles.


--------------

Update: Turkey is asking permission to search the Saudi consulate.

[TomSea]

al Jazeera:

Saudi Arabia will allow Turkey to search consulate for Khashoggi
Crown prince says Turkey welcome to search its consulate in Istanbul for Saudi dissident who disappeared this week.

A demonstrator holds a picture of Jamal Khashoggi during a protest in front of Saudi Arabia's consulate in Istanbul [Osman Orsal/Reuters]

Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman has welcomed Turkey to search the Saudi consulate in Istanbul following the disappearance of prominent journalist Jamal Khashoggi who entered the mission earlier this week.

In an exclusive interview with Bloomberg, published on Friday, bin Salman said Saudi Arabia is "very keen to know what happened" to the Saudi citizen, adding "we have nothing to hide".

Khashoggi, a Saudi dissident critical of the country's crown prince, entered the consulate's premises on Tuesday in what seemed to be a routine visit to sort out paperwork, before disappearing.

Read more at: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/10/mbs-saudi-arabia-hide-jamal-khashoggi-181005190230610.html

Sands shifting a bit on this matter.  Some reports say perhaps, he could be alive.

[Fishrrman]

One less muslim.
Fine with me.

[TomSea]

Trump 'concerned' about Khashoggi after days of silence

...

Leaders within the ruling Republican party issued a varying array of condemnations and concerns.

US Republican Senator Lindsey Graham tweeted on Monday that it was "imperative" to find out what happened to the Saudi Arabian dissident.

"Honest answers must be forthcoming for the sake of the Saudi-US relationship," he wrote.

Graham also said that if allegations of Saudi wrongdoing prove true, "it would be devastating to the US-Saudi relationship and there will be a heavy price to be paid — economically and otherwise".

...

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/deafening-silence-white-houses-response-jamal-khashoggi-disappearance-992416786

Vice President Mike Pence
‏Verified account @VP
1h1 hour ago

Deeply troubled to hear reports about Saudi Arabian journalist Jamal Khashoggi. If true, this is a tragic day. Violence against journalists across the globe is a threat to freedom of the press & human rights. The free world deserves answers.
1,057 replies 1,380 retweets 4,542 likes

https://twitter.com/VP

[TomSea]

One less muslim.
Fine with me.

That's how you put the radicals and extremists in charge of things. More dangerous for everyone.

[TomSea]

Pompeo calls on Saudi government to investigate Khashoggi disappearance

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo on Monday called on the government of Saudi Arabia to support “a thorough investigation” of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi’s disappearance and to be transparent about the results of that investigation.

Read more at: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-saudi-politics-dissident-pompeo/pompeo-calls-on-saudi-government-to-investigate-khashoggi-disappearance-idUSKCN1MJ066

[TomSea]

This is how Saudi Arabia is partly defending itself against the allegation they killed or kidnapped this Khashoggi fellow. The story is causing worldwide outrage,  the President and the Vice-President have voiced concern. We also have offered the FBI to aid the investigation if needed.

It's all complex, one part I do understand is that the Saudis are saying the "alleged hit team" from Saudi Arabia (KSA from now on), went to Turkey clearly, days after Khashoggi went missing.

The Saudi defense, no more, no less.

Jamal Khashoggi mystery: Deleted tweets, unnamed ‘sources’ and fake funeral

Media outlets continue to rehash news reports claiming that missing Saudi writer Jamal Khashoggi has been killed inside the Saudi consulate in Istanbul, despite statements from Turkish President Recep Tayib Erdogan himself, who refuted the claims and said he is hopeful the writer will emerge unharmed.

The question really is, how did international media outlets fall prey for the initially weakly-sourced news report, and another false report that was later deleted, as well as citing an unknown woman?

“The night of the deleted tweets,” as many observers have termed it online, seems to explain it all.

Read more at: https://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2018/10/08/Jamal-Khashoggi-mystery-Deleted-tweets-unnamed-sources-and-fake-funeral.html

Months ago, Arkady Babchenko's death was faked in Ukraine. Could we have that here? This is a real life sort of murder mystery or story worthy of being an espionage thriller.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkady_Babchenko

[TomSea]

US intercepted Saudi plans to capture missing journalist, report says
 By Lukas Mikelionis | Fox News

U.S. intelligence agencies reportedly intercepted Saudi officials discussing a plan to capture Jamal Khashoggi, the journalist who disappeared after visiting the Saudi consulate in Turkey.

Top Turkish officials fear he was murdered and that his dismembered body was flown out of the country.

The Washington Post is reporting that before the journalist disappeared on Oct. 2, Saudi officials discussed a plan to lure Khashoggi back to Saudi Arabia.

Read more at: https://www.foxnews.com/world/us-intercepted-saudi-plans-to-capture-missing-journalist-report-says

[TomSea]

Rand Paul Seeks Vote to Block U.S.-Saudi Arms Sales Over Missing Journalist
By Erik Wasson

Senator Rand Paul increased U.S. congressional pressure on Saudi Arabia by saying he’d seek to block future arms sales to the country after reports that a journalist was murdered inside the kingdom’s consulate in Istanbul for criticizing the royal family.

Paul, a Kentucky Republican, said Tuesday he would force a vote to reject sales the next time the U.S. government informs lawmakers of a planned shipment, a response to the disappearance of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi, who was last seen entering the consulate.

In June, Senator Bob Menendez of New Jersey, the top Democrat on the Foreign Relations Committee, notified the Trump administration he would use an informal procedure to block sales to Saudi Arabia because of his concern about the Saudi-led coalition fighting in Yemen. That remains in place, according to a Democratic aide.

Read more at: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-09/vote-sought-to-block-u-s-saudi-arms-sales-over-khashoggi-s-fate?srnd=premium

Notice, Sen. Menendez is mentioned as well. Pretty good on foreign affairs actually.

Sen. Rand Paul has been advocating for some time, a halt or at least, closer scrutiny over weapons sales meant for Saudi Arabia. Now, some might listen to him instead of his being a voice in the wilderness.

[TomSea]

Excerpt:

Apple Watch, hired jet, mystery vehicle figure in search for missing Saudi dissident

Orhan Coskun, Sarah Dadouch, Stephen Kalin16 Min Read

ISTANBUL (Reuters) ...

....

Two senior Turkish officials revealed the existence of an object that may provide important clues to Khashoggi’s fate: the black Apple watch he was wearing when he entered the consulate. The watch was connected to a mobile phone he left outside, they said.

Investigators are also focusing on 15 Saudi men who entered the consulate around the same time as Khashoggi and left a short time later. These men had arrived hours earlier from Riyadh, most of them by private plane, the officials said. By the end of the day, they were on their way back to the kingdom.

...

And investigators are trying to trace a vehicle that left the Saudi consulate at the same time as two cars destined for the airport, one of the officials said. This vehicle didn’t turn toward the airport, but set off in the opposite direction.

Read more at: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-saudi-politics-dissident-insight/apple-watch-hired-jet-mystery-vehicle-figure-in-search-for-missing-saudi-dissident-idUSKCN1MK1WY

[TomSea]

Khashoggi worked for the Washington Post,  the Saudis would have had to know, his murder would cause an uproar. The Saudis also should have known there is CCTV in Istanbul... yet, one of the stories I posted earlier, said US intelligence caught scent of a plot.

A pro-Saudi story again. We may never know, unless, Khashoggi staged his own death and comes out.

al Arabiya:

The link between 3 figures behind the Jamal Khashoggi mystery


The mystery over missing Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi has been riddled with misreported news, dubious sources and orchestrated media campaigns.

But three key figures have been the face of this, exaggerating and embellishing the story with fake news to spark panic and place blame on Saudi authorities.

THE FIANCÉE

Suspicions surrounding Khashoggi’s self-claimed fiancée Hatice Cengiz first arose following a background check that showed her connections to Qatar, the country with state-sponsored media outlets that had been adamantly accusing Saudi authorities of murdering Khashoggi.

Read more at: https://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/world/2018/10/10/The-link-between-3-figures-behind-the-Jamal-Khashoggi-mystery.html

One wonders if the Saudi defense holds up. They've pretty much been declared guilty already.

[Fishrrman]

I'm wonderin' if the Saudis did a "Helle Crafts" on this guy.
(Connecticut woodchipper murder, a couple of towns over from me)

[TomSea]

BBC has a very nice graphic, 


Diplomatic vehicles were seen entering the consulate and driving to the Saudi consul's residence shortly after Mr Khashoggi's arrival

That above, sounds rather damning. If they did this, they should have known they can't get away with it the way the world is watched nowadays, at least, not like this.

Full article: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45817736

Just saw this article. Thanks for contributing.

This Khashoggi, well, I don't know what he was like but of countries that go around assassinating people, I don't want to make light of it, you hunt the fellow down in the dark or ride by him on a motorcycle. There were plenty of better ways IF they did this. I'm not totally convinced they did. It could be a hoax. Diplomatic cars probably go to and from the consul to the residence fairly often.

Other articles, I don't know how the Turks/other intelligence would know this but are saying, he was dismembered. Kind of morbid to think about and taken out of the Consul building.

[TomSea]

Senator Bob Corker tweeted this letter:

Senator Bob Corker
‏Verified account @SenBobCorker
3h3 hours ago

Today, we sent a letter to the administration triggering an investigation and Global Magnitsky sanctions determination regarding the disappearance of Saudi journalist and @washingtonpost columnist #JamalKhashoggi.

https://twitter.com/KyleWOrton

Turkey and Saudi Arabia do not have the best of relations, Saudi Arabia said something about Turkey, Iran and Russia being something like, an evil axis or something like that. I forget how it was worded.

[TomSea]

Saudi Consul told their Turkish consul workers which per the article, there are 28 of these workers, to not come into work that day.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/saudi-consulates-28-turkish-staff-khashoggis-disappearance

Pretty damning if true. Checking twitter and #khashoggi , one article says Washington has turned very sour on Saudi Arabia.  Other articles are saying that King Salman, the young bearded guy, ordered this. Too bad, sounds like they did kill the guy.

Also, at first, The Saudis were saying they'd let the police in and look around, I think stories say they nixed that idea.

[TomSea]

Khashoggi’s Disappearance Puts Kushner’s Bet on Saudi Crown Prince at Risk

Jared Kushner, a senior adviser to President Trump, in the background of a meeting in March at the White House.CreditCreditDoug Mills/The New York Times

WASHINGTON — For President Trump, who has made Saudi Arabia the fulcrum of his Middle East policy, the possible murder of a Saudi journalist in Turkey is a looming diplomatic crisis. For Mr. Trump’s son-in-law, Jared Kushner, it is a personal reckoning.

More than anyone in the Trump administration, Mr. Kushner has cultivated Saudi Arabia’s crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman — whose family may have played a role in the disappearance of the journalist, Jamal Khashoggi — elevating the prince into a key ally in the Arab world and the White House’s primary interlocutor to the kingdom.

Mr. Kushner championed Prince Mohammed, 33, when the prince was jockeying to be his father’s heir; had dinner with him in Washington and Riyadh, the Saudi capital; promoted a $110 billion weapons sale to his military; and once even hoped that the future king would put a Saudi stamp of approval on his Israeli-Palestinian peace plan.

Read more at: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/10/us/politics/jamal-khashoggi-disappearance-kushner.html

[TomSea]

If the US heard the Saudis might have this plot? Then we should have told the guy. The story isn't totally adding up; and I would have thought we would have.

   

Did the U.S. Fail Its “Duty to Warn” Jamal Khashoggi? How U.S. Directive 191 Applies to Kidnapping Threats
by Ryan Goodman
October 10, 2018

The question of whether the United States is failing to respond adequately to foreign governments’ attempted kidnapping or assassination of political opponents, dissidents and journalists—even when it takes place on the soil of NATO allies—is raising concerns for many.

How President Donald Trump and the U.S. government as a whole have responded to such actions is further complicated by whether the U.S. and its intelligence community have advance knowledge of such an attack. That’s because there is an internal government order in place requiring U.S. intelligence agencies to warn an intended victim if the agency acquires information that a threat of kidnapping, murder, or serious bodily injury is imminent.

This question is already being raised with respect to the fate of Saudi journalist and U.S. resident Jamal Khashoggi, who disappeared a little over a week ago after he entered the Saudi consulate in Istanbul.  Turkish authorities have said they believe Khashoggi was murdered inside the consulate and have provided what they believe is evidence of the plan to reporters. The Saudi government has denied all allegations.

Read more at: https://www.justsecurity.org/61001/united-states-fail-duty-warn-jamal-khashoggi-intelligence-directive-191-applies/

Potentially, could become a huge story. Khashoggi wrote columns for the Washington Post, so they will definitely want to get to the bottom of this.

[TomSea]

Also in the article:

“Although I cannot comment on intelligence matters, I can say definitively the United States had no advance knowledge of Jamal Khashoggi’s disappearance,” State Department Deputy spokesman Robert Palladino

So, this says we didn't know.

[Frank Cannon]

I am glad Trump didn't get involved prior to the incident. It's non of out GD business what happens to some filthy rag head foreign national in some foreign country. He is not an American. Eff him.

[TomSea]

Okay, this story is from April, 2018 but pertinent to the current situation.

Saudi crown prince says Jared Kushner handed him U.S. intelligence

By Ryan Parry West Coast Correspondent For Dailymail.com and Josh Boswell For Dailymail.com 13:23 05 Apr 2018, updated 14:58 05 Apr 2018

    Saudi crown prince Mohammed bin Salman met with Jared Kushner in October

    Salman has since bragged about using classified intelligence from Kushner as part of a crackdown on 'corrupt' princes and businessmen in Saudi Arabia

    He said the intelligence from Kushner included information on those who were disloyal to Salman and who were his 'enemies', insiders tell DailyMail

    Kushner's attorney's spokesman said it was 'false' that the president's son-in-law passed on secrets and that he was 'well aware of the rules'

    The crown prince launched his crackdown on corruption in November, days after he met Kushner for talks in Riyadh

    Hundreds were rounded up, including princes from rival parts of the Saudi royal family and some of the country's wealthiest businessmen

    But the crackdown saw accusations of torture and at least one reported death

Saudi crown prince Mohammed bin Salman bragged of receiving classified US intelligence from Jared Kushner and using it as part of a purge of 'corrupt' princes and businessmen, DailyMail.com can disclose.

Read more at: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5575395/amp/Saudi-crown-prince-brags-Jared-Kushner-handed-U-S-intelligence.html?__twitter_impression=true

Bad news but why would our intelligence be so much better? The story grows, this will be a big story, not sure if any of the other forums have stories on this.

[TomSea]

Khashoggi's cousin, one can look this up, Adnan Khashoggi was a very wealthy arms trader. Okay, who would an arms seller in Saudi Arabia be selling to?  Terrorists?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adnan_Khashoggi

[TomSea]

Also, with this matter, we are dealing with "diplomatic immunity".  It is a good concept.

I don't know if there are ways around it. The Consul should be stormed by the law actually but that is outside the law. We have to live with that. The law must be respected.

[TomSea]

What the media aren’t telling you about Jamal Khashoggi | Spectator USA
John R. Bradley

As someone who spent three decades working closely with intelligence services in the Arab world and the West, the Saudi dissident and Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi knew he was taking a huge risk in entering the Saudi consulate in Istanbul last week to try to obtain a document certifying he had divorced his ex-wife.

A one-time regime insider turned critic of Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman — the de facto head of the Saudi kingdom which tolerates no criticism whatsoever — Khashoggi had been living in Washington for the previous year in self-imposed exile amid a crackdown on independent voices in his homeland.

He had become the darling of western commentators on the Middle East. With almost two million Twitter followers, he was the most famous political pundit in the Arab world and a regular guest on the major TV news networks in Britain and the United States. Would the Saudis dare to cause him harm? It turns out that the answer to that question was ‘You betcha.’

Read more at: https://spectator.us/2018/10/jamal-khashoggi/

We'll see. I don't know if this website is related to American Spectator or the US edition of the UK website, Spectator. Just posting this without knowing the full article.

I see it does say, Khashoggi should have been aware he was taking a risk for even entering the Saudi consul.