Trump: We are going to put a 25% tariff on every car from the European Union

[ABX]

He just loves that pen and phone taxation.

President Donald Trump said Tuesday night that the U.S. would slap a 25 percent tariff on cars coming from the European Union.
The president's statement came hours after The Wall Street Journal reported that Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross said he had postponed an August timeline to publish a report on auto tariffs.
"We're going to put a 25 percent tax on every car that comes into the United States from the European Union," Trump said at a campaign rally in West Virginia.....

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/21/trump-us-to-put-a-25percent-tariff-on-every-car-from-european-union.html

I wonder if he is also going to count automotive parts that are coming in from the EU to BMW and Porsche plants in the US?

[GrouchoTex]

Wait a minute.....
Didn't we read last week that the USA and the EU reached a trade agreement?
All part of a brilliant negotiating strategy?
What Happened?

[ABX]

Wait a minute.....
Didn't we read last week that the USA and the EU reached a trade agreement?
All part of a brilliant negotiating strategy?
What Happened?

They reached an agreement to talk (that some spun as a win).

[Fishrrman]

Sooner or later the "leaders" of the European nations will come to the realization that -- unlike politicians "on the Continent" -- Mr. Trump actually means what he says and that he intends to follow through on his threats.

And then... and only then... will the Europeans agree to really end their own tariffs...

[Wingnut]

Good.  The average Joe really doesn't give flying flip at a rolling donut about some Limey or Kraut built car. 

[kevindavis007]

Good.  The average Joe really doesn't give flying flip at a rolling donut about some Limey or Kraut built car.

So it is OK that is doesn't hurt you but the other guy.. Boy that is a Conservative position.. Not!

[txradioguy]

Sooner or later the "leaders" of the European nations will come to the realization that -- unlike politicians "on the Continent" -- Mr. Trump actually means what he says and that he intends to follow through on his threats.

And European politicians will follow through on reciprocal threats and tariffs.

You and anyone else supporting this piss poor fiscal policy of tariffs sadly underestimate the politicians in Europe if you think they'll just roll over on stuff like this.

And then... and only then... will the Europeans agree to really end their own tariffs...

No what they will do is what most European car makers have done and that is to withdraw from our market.  There are emerging economies with the cash and without the tariffs that will scoop up .

Or worse yet they will close their plants in Alabama and South Carolina and put all those Americans out of a job and in the unemployment line.

The Europeans DO know how to play hardball and can be just as ruthless when they are so motivated.

[txradioguy]

Good.  The average Joe really doesn't give flying flip at a rolling donut about some Limey or Kraut built car.

That sounds like the jealously of a a wonder bread trailer park cracker that couldn't afford a used BMW much less a new one.

[kevindavis007]

That sounds like the jealously of a a wonder bread trailer park cracker that couldn't afford a used BMW much less a new one.

@txradioguy


You just nailed it.  That type of jealously I can see coming from the left. Not the right.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

And European politicians will follow through on reciprocal threats and tariffs.

You and anyone else supporting this piss poor fiscal policy of tariffs sadly underestimate the politicians in Europe if you think they'll just roll over on stuff like this.

You are way off base here.  The new tariffs imposed for imports from EU are actually the recipricosity for the current situation whereby US has a 2.5% duty on EU imports and the EU imposes a 10% duty on imports from US.

Are you simply wishing for us to roll over and keep getting screwed by them?

[Fishrrman]

I sailed wrote:
"Are you simply wishing for us to roll over and keep getting screwed by them?"

There are folks here who would willingly jump up into the air and swan-dive onto the sword of "free trade".
It's kind of like religion for them.

So what if the European manufacturers "withdraw" from the market here?
The void they leave will be filled by others -- the Japanese, the Koreans, and what's left of the American manufacturers.

It will be their loss.
Not ours.

[txradioguy]

You are way off base here.  The new tariffs imposed for imports from EU are actually the recipricosity for the current situation whereby US has a 2.5% duty on EU imports and the EU imposes a 10% duty on imports from US.

No not way off base. where do you think the 27.5% tariff (current tariff plus the proposed 25%) on a new Volkswagen or Mercedes or BMW is going to be passed on to?

Those car companies already have to send over their top of the line cars here to make any kind of money in the states.  You don't find "base model" Bimmers and Benz's in the U.S. like you do on the autobahn.

Not to mention the average worker in Europe doesn't make enough to afford a new car from BMW Audi or Mercedes Benz.

Are you simply wishing for us to roll over and keep getting screwed by them?

No I don't want the American consumer to get screwed.  Which you seem perfectly fine with.

You and a fe other folks here don't seem to realize that a tariff is a direct tax on the consumer. 

The tariff lovers here...like you are the ones that want Americans to roll over...bend over and get screwed.

And you're sitting here cheering more taxes on you and other consumers like it's some wonderful thing.

If this was a Dem doing the same thing you'd be shouting from the rooftops about how they are screwing the country with such foolish economic policies.

[txradioguy]

There are folks here who would willingly jump up into the air and swan-dive onto the sword of "free trade".
It's kind of like religion for them.

Free trade and the economic policies associated with that is what made America such a powerful economic force int he world.

And for some reason you don't like that.

So what if the European manufacturers "withdraw" from the market here?
The void they leave will be filled by others -- the Japanese, the Koreans, and what's left of the American manufacturers.

It will be their loss.
Not ours.

Not sure how someone your age is so either naive or clueless about economics and what would happen in reality.

But your economic theory is clearly being run in a vacuum.

[Fishrrman]

Tx wrote:
"Free trade and the economic policies associated with that is what made America such a powerful economic force int he world."

You can read history your way.
I'll read it my way.

Seems like before the U.S. income tax was enacted, much of the revenue to run the government (certainly since the 1790's up through the 1800's) came from... tariffs.

Where did the money come from otherwise, before "the tax"?

[IsailedawayfromFR]

No not way off base. where do you think the 27.5% tariff (current tariff plus the proposed 25%) on a new Volkswagen or Mercedes or BMW is going to be passed on to?

Those car companies already have to send over their top of the line cars here to make any kind of money in the states.  You don't find "base model" Bimmers and Benz's in the U.S. like you do on the autobahn.

Not to mention the average worker in Europe doesn't make enough to afford a new car from BMW Audi or Mercedes Benz.


No I don't want the American consumer to get screwed.  Which you seem perfectly fine with.

You and a fe other folks here don't seem to realize that a tariff is a direct tax on the consumer. 

The tariff lovers here...like you are the ones that want Americans to roll over...bend over and get screwed.

And you're sitting here cheering more taxes on you and other consumers like it's some wonderful thing.

If this was a Dem doing the same thing you'd be shouting from the rooftops about how they are screwing the country with such foolish economic policies.

You obviously have drunk the NeverTrumper Koolaid to believe we should continue allowing the EU to screw us with higher tariffs than we impose on their goods.

This screwing has been going on for a long time through a lot of Presidents, yet you get in a huff we we try to equalize to a level playing field.

Once again, this is an ACTUAL screwing by EU ALREADY in place vs a PROPOSED tariff increase by us.

Do you not see any difference or are you blatantly ignorant?

[txradioguy]

You obviously have drunk the NeverTrumper Koolaid to believe we should continue allowing the EU to screw us with higher tariffs than we impose on their goods.

And that's how I know you've lost the argument.

I'm done with you and your economic illiteracy.

[txradioguy]

Tx wrote:

Where did the money come from otherwise, before "the tax"?

I see history through a factual lens...not orange colored blinders.

You want to compare the U.S. of the 19th Century with the U.S. in the 21st Century to justify tariffs?


That's pathetic and shows how little you understand about the world of economics these days.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Tx wrote:
"Free trade and the economic policies associated with that is what made America such a powerful economic force int he world."

You can read history your way.
I'll read it my way.

Seems like before the U.S. income tax was enacted, much of the revenue to run the government (certainly since the 1790's up through the 1800's) came from... tariffs.

Where did the money come from otherwise, before "the tax"?

I honestly do not know why an otherwise alright guy continues to be blind to the incongruity of his argument.

The EU already has 4x the duty on imported cars from US than we lay on their imports, and yet he believes that is A-OK, keep getting screwed by them.

[INVAR]

@txradioguy


You just nailed it.  That type of jealously I can see coming from the left. Not the right.

It's all the rage now.  What used to be the typical envy and punishment garbage you'd hear from liberals and Leftists is now MAGA!

[INVAR]

The EU already has 4x the duty on imported cars from US than we lay on their imports, and yet he believes that is A-OK, keep getting screwed by them.

I find it amazing that people who self identify as Conservative, and whom used to not believe wealth is a zero-sum gain like the Left does, (meaning someone making money over here, someone is losing money over there) - that they now believe in zero-sum global trade, and that to punitively tax and close markets to goods from one nation, are going to be filled by another until equilibrium is achieved in trade numbers.  Which is ridiculous.

To scream 'fairness!" because our imports are greater than exports is no different than what the Left screams with 'equality!' because more whites own businesses than blacks.

[ABX]

I honestly do not know why an otherwise alright guy continues to be blind to the incongruity of his argument.

The EU already has 4x the duty on imported cars from US than we lay on their imports, and yet he believes that is A-OK, keep getting screwed by them.

Because cars from the US aren't subject to their VAT and other taxes. The 4x the duty line is only telling a tiny fraction of the story. The reason Ford is starting to out-sell VW and BMW in Germany is because even with the import duty, their taxes are more favorable to US vehicles imported.

For example, if you import a $40K Ford to Denmark, that car is subject to 25% duty, fees, and environmental taxes, so it costs $50K.
In Denmark, a car made in Germany is subject to their auto VAT of 25% Goods and Services VAT, plus 15% EU VAT, plus environmental recap costs and such. Up until two years ago, the taxes on a EU manufactured car in Denmark was 200%- no, I'm not kidding (source below). They lowered it to be about 100%.  So that $40K car made in Germany costs $80K.  Denmark is the extreme case, but even in other areas, the VAT on domestically produced products is still higher than the import duty.

So their tax system, even with the duty line people keep bringing up, is still favorable to US imports.


* https://wallstreetpit.com/12684-denmarks-200-pecent-car-tax-crazy-and-crazier/



But, with all that being said, why should we punish our consumers with higher taxes just because another country does so?  Taxation is theft, period. The people who pay aren't the European manufacturers but the US consumers, the US dealers, and everyone else in the auto-import industry here. These are your average joes, not some snotty guy drinking wine in the back of his Rolls.

[GrouchoTex]

Because cars from the US aren't subject to their VAT and other taxes. The 4x the duty line is only telling a tiny fraction of the story. The reason Ford is starting to out-sell VW and BMW in Germany is because even with the import duty, their taxes are more favorable to US vehicles imported.

For example, if you import a $40K Ford to Denmark, that car is subject to 25% duty, fees, and environmental taxes, so it costs $50K.
In Denmark, a car made in Germany is subject to their auto VAT of 25% Goods and Services VAT, plus 15% EU VAT, plus environmental recap costs and such. Up until two years ago, the taxes on a EU manufactured car in Denmark was 200%- no, I'm not kidding (source below). They lowered it to be about 100%.  So that $40K car made in Germany costs $80K.  Denmark is the extreme case, but even in other areas, the VAT on domestically produced products is still higher than the import duty.

So their tax system, even with the duty line people keep bringing up, is still favorable to US imports.


* https://wallstreetpit.com/12684-denmarks-200-pecent-car-tax-crazy-and-crazier/



But, with all that being said, why should we punish our consumers with higher taxes just because another country does so?  Taxation is theft, period. The people who pay aren't the European manufacturers but the US consumers, the US dealers, and everyone else in the auto-import industry here. These are your average joes, not some snotty guy drinking wine in the back of his Rolls.

Bizarre, yet, true.

I work for a German company, and one of our sites, sells something to another customer in Germany, they end up paying more than if we send the same exact thing from here.
The VAT tax gets them.

[Frank Cannon]

Trump: We are going to put a 25% tariff on every car from the European Union

Good thing I already took delivery of my Renault Avantime before the tariffs kicked in....

[GrouchoTex]

Trump: We are going to put a 25% tariff on every car from the European Union

Good thing I already took delivery of my Renault Avantime before the tariffs kicked in....

I'm still waiting for the new Travant to come out..............

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Because cars from the US aren't subject to their VAT and other taxes. The 4x the duty line is only telling a tiny fraction of the story. The reason Ford is starting to out-sell VW and BMW in Germany is because even with the import duty, their taxes are more favorable to US vehicles imported.

For example, if you import a $40K Ford to Denmark, that car is subject to 25% duty, fees, and environmental taxes, so it costs $50K.
In Denmark, a car made in Germany is subject to their auto VAT of 25% Goods and Services VAT, plus 15% EU VAT, plus environmental recap costs and such. Up until two years ago, the taxes on a EU manufactured car in Denmark was 200%- no, I'm not kidding (source below). They lowered it to be about 100%.  So that $40K car made in Germany costs $80K.  Denmark is the extreme case, but even in other areas, the VAT on domestically produced products is still higher than the import duty.

So their tax system, even with the duty line people keep bringing up, is still favorable to US imports.


* https://wallstreetpit.com/12684-denmarks-200-pecent-car-tax-crazy-and-crazier/



But, with all that being said, why should we punish our consumers with higher taxes just because another country does so?  Taxation is theft, period. The people who pay aren't the European manufacturers but the US consumers, the US dealers, and everyone else in the auto-import industry here. These are your average joes, not some snotty guy drinking wine in the back of his Rolls.

So in your strange world, a tariff by the US is more loathsome than a tariff by the EU.

Why not go ahead and move to Europe and enjoy paying tariffs that don't mean a thing?