Arizona Republican claims she doesn’t know what the alt-right is as infamous white nationalist joins

[ABX]

That's right. Think Aryan Nation.

Yep, them, American Renaissance, Stormfront, VDare, American Freedom Party, Council of Conservative Citizens, Identity Evropa just to name a few.

[skeeter]

Yep, them, American Renaissance, Stormfront, VDare, American Freedom Party, Council of Conservative Citizens, Identity Evropa just to name a few.

Why do we need another name for white supremacist?

Unless you aim to expand the cohort it covers.

[ABX]

Why do we need another name for white supremacist?

They constantly change their name to try to put themselves in the mainstream. Council of Conservative Citizens is a perfect example. It puts itself up as a mainstream site, but it was started and run by Jared Taylor (founder of Stormfront and Amren; probably the biggest white supremacist voice out there). He has done this many times with groups like National Policy Institute and the New Century Foundation which he creates as 'fronts' to try to sneak his camel's nose under the tent. Those sites come across as mainstream Conservative but they pepper in white nationalist and anti-Semitic articles and often sell WN books and link out to their other sites to recruit membership.


It is very similar to how the Communist Party created (and still does) front groups to push the message but make them sound more mainstream.

[skeeter]

They constantly change their name to try to put themselves in the mainstream. Council of Conservative Citizens is a perfect example. It puts itself up as a mainstream site, but it was started and run by Jared Taylor (founder of Stormfront and Amren; probably the biggest white supremacist voice out there). He has done this many times with groups like National Policy Institute and the New Century Foundation which he creates as 'fronts' to try to sneak his camel's nose under the tent. Those sites come across as mainstream Conservative but they pepper in white nationalist and anti-Semitic articles and often sell WN books and link out to their other sites to recruit membership.


It is very similar to how the Communist Party created (and still does) front groups to push the message but make them sound more mainstream.

Perhaps it would be a good idea if we weren't so willing to accommodate them with their name change.

Loosening the definition, as this name does, will cause people to be associated with them who do not deserve to be.

White supremacist it stays.

[roamer_1]

Why do we need another name for white supremacist?

Unless you aim to expand the cohort it covers.

White Nationalist and White Supremacist have always been interchangeable around here...

[skeeter]

White Nationalist and White Supremacist have always been interchangeable around here...

Too bad. They literally mean completely different things.

[jpsb]

Too bad. They literally mean completely different things.

 

[roamer_1]

Too bad. They literally mean completely different things.

Then you'll have to provide a clear and definitive difference... Because I can pick up the phone and call an Aryan compound north of here and they will tell me the terms are interchangeable.

[ABX]

Too bad. They literally mean completely different things.

They have the same root though, racial superiority. White Supremacist is a generic term for those who believe in their specific race superiority (through genes, divine purpose, whatever), while White Nationalism is the implementation of that belief through political action (race based or restricted benefits, bans on interracial marriage or adoption, citizenship determination based on race, etc).

To use the communist analogy again, it is like how Marxism is the overall root belief and Leninism or Trotskyism. is political implementation of that belief.


These are all forms of collectivism, where the group's identity and authority outweighs individuals rights.

[WarmPotato]

Maybe she doesn't!
Honestly the alt right doesn't really have a clear meaning at all! :P

[Emjay]

Maybe she doesn't!
Honestly the alt right doesn't really have a clear meaning at all! :P

I agree.  I don't know the exact meaning of alt-right either.  I think it is just a convenient term to describe people you don't agree with.

[roamer_1]

White Supremacist is a generic term for those who believe in their specific race superiority (through genes, divine purpose, whatever), while White Nationalism is the implementation of that belief through political action

I know you are being kind, and seeking compromise, but that is quite literally a distinction without a difference.

[Cyber Liberty]

I know you are being kind, and seeking compromise, but that is quite literally a distinction without a difference.

It is as far as TBR Management is concerned, I believe.  I have also heard the term "White Segregationist," which sounds idiotic to me.  An attempt by racists to separate themselves linguistically from other racists?

[ABX]

I know you are being kind, and seeking compromise, but that is quite literally a distinction without a difference.

Just the opposite, I'm trying to show that they are just two sides of the same, nasty, racist, collectivist coin. They are to each other like Trotskyites are to Marxism.

[roamer_1]

It is as far as TBR Management is concerned, I believe.  I have also heard the term "White Segregationist," which sounds idiotic to me.  An attempt by racists to separate themselves linguistically from other racists?

White, black, or purple, racism is racism, and is counter-intuitive to an ideology that holds individuality and merit as sacrosanct. And in that, not Conservative.

[roamer_1]

Just the opposite, I'm trying to show that they are just two sides of the same, nasty, racist, collectivist coin. They are to each other like Trotskyites are to Marxism.

Accepted. And thanks for the clarification.

[ABX]

Accepted. And thanks for the clarification.

My meaning was to try to counter some prior comments that 'White Nationalism' is nothing more than white people who are patriotic. (asinine I know).

[truth_seeker]

Is "white," a nationality, race,  ethnicity, language or political or religious grouping?

DNA science uses "Haplogroups," which are the closest thing to a "race" that I am aware of using science.

DNA science uses maternal (mt-DNA) paternal(Y-DNA) and percent geographic origin estimates (Autosomal)


Yet using that metric, a given geographic area (which many associate with "ethnicity" too, will have several Haplogroups.


Y-DNA Haplogroup R1b is possibly the most common across much of Europe, yet it occurs with high frequency in Italy, Spain, France, UK, Germany Scandinavia.

Is R1b a "race?"

Then all the other way on the globe, Japanese are highly "racist," believing themselves superior.

A highly educated Japanese man that I used to know, declared Koreans to be very dirty. Taiwanese, too.

You will all note IQ testing proves Asians to be the "brightest."

Japan restricts immigration aa lot.

Therefore the concept of racial superiority is NOT limited to "whites."


Biology can show that living highly evolved organisms have affinities/preferences for their own kind. Science.






 

[roamer_1]

Therefore the concept of racial superiority is NOT limited to "whites."

That doesn't make it better... Pointing at the other kid and screaming, "He does it," never worked for me. My old man figured to mete out my whippin for what I done, every time.

Biology can show that living highly evolved organisms have affinities/preferences for their own kind. Science.

That don't make it better either.

My BIL is a black Costa Rican... Come up out of utter poverty and drug abuse... He does international high end construction projects now... and without a whiff of gimmedat. He did it with his own stones, and made his own bones, and that, regardless of his black skin and South American culture, deserves merit.

That is ALL I need to know.

[roamer_1]

My meaning was to try to counter some prior comments that 'White Nationalism' is nothing more than white people who are patriotic. (asinine I know).

We are in agreement (as is often the case) 

[sneakypete]

I know you are being kind, and seeking compromise, but that is quite literally a distinction without a difference.

@roamer_1

I always thought the definition of White Nationalism you quoted was the definition as defined by non-whites that hate white people.

Seems like everybody  BUT white people have a right to stick together. Black lobby groups,Jewish lobby groups,Asian lobby groups,Injun lobby groups,His and Her Panic lobby groups,all are fine upstanding civil movements,but anytime two white people get together to stand up for rights for white people,they are automatically called racists and/or Nazis.

Do NOT let your political enemies define you!

[skeeter]

My meaning was to try to counter some prior comments that 'White Nationalism' is nothing more than white people who are patriotic. (asinine I know).

Thanks for that clarification.

Just goes to show that believing words mean things, or taking words at their literal meaning, can get you into heap big trouble with those who know better.

[roamer_1]

I always thought the definition of White Nationalism you quoted was the definition as defined by non-whites that hate white people.
[...]
Do NOT let your political enemies define you!

That definition comes right from the horses mouth, @sneakypete ... It don't get more 'white nationalist' than Aryan Nation.

As for political enemies, I am far more concerned with the ones trying to redefine the Right, and Conservatism, to include 'white nationalists'.

[cato potatoe]

Well, there is some nuance to the alt-right.  You have people like Jared Taylor or Stefan Molyneux, for whom neither "white supremacist" nor anti-semitic labels would be entirely fair.  Then you have the skinheads and the internet green frog armada.  We can debate this sort of thing, but a senate candidate should know better than touch it with a 5000 foot pole.  I hope Arizona nominates McSally.

[DB]

Well, there is some nuance to the alt-right.  You have people like Jared Taylor or Stefan Molyneux, for whom neither "white supremacist" nor anti-semitic labels would be entirely fair.  Then you have the skinheads and the internet green frog armada.  We can debate this sort of thing, but a senate candidate should know better than touch it with a 5000 foot pole.  I hope Arizona nominates McSally.

Sometime you just have to go with what they call themselves... Richard Spencer is a prime example.