Author Topic: No, We Aren't Going to Pay Off the National Debt With Tariff Revenue  (Read 5007 times)

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Offline ABX

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Officially, the Trump administration's position is that tariffs on aluminum and steel are a national security issue.
Unofficially, President Donald Trump has trotted out just about every imaginable justification for new taxes on imports, claiming that the tariffs are needed to create leverage for renegotiating trade deals, that they are meant to punish China for stealing American companies' intellectual property, even that they're a retaliation for Canada's decision to charge high import duties on American milk—as if that were something that would justify a potentially destructive trade war.
In a weekend tweetstorm, Trump raised the bar yet again in his race to offer the most ludicrous justification for his tariffs. Now he says they'll help the United States pay off the $21 trillion national debt......

https://reason.com/blog/2018/08/06/no-we-arent-going-to-pay-off-the-nationa



Offline INVAR

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Re: No, We Aren't Going to Pay Off the National Debt With Tariff Revenue
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2018, 03:41:53 pm »
The idea to 'pay off the national debt' by taxing the living crap out of Americans is beyond stupid.

But it sounds great to the emoting herds that adore Trump who have been easily led to hate and want punishment visited upon whomever or whatever Trump targets.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline ABX

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Re: No, We Aren't Going to Pay Off the National Debt With Tariff Revenue
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2018, 03:50:03 pm »
The idea to 'pay off the national debt' by taxing the living crap out of Americans is beyond stupid.

But it sounds great to the emoting herds that adore Trump who have been easily led to hate and want punishment visited upon whomever or whatever Trump targets.

Of course, it is all offset by having to bail out those the tariffs hurt.

The joys of big brother central planning.

Offline INVAR

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Re: No, We Aren't Going to Pay Off the National Debt With Tariff Revenue
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2018, 04:04:11 pm »
Of course, it is all offset by having to bail out those the tariffs hurt.

Ahhh yes....  They must assume the American people are going to keep buying exorbitant tax-levied imported goods to the tune of 40 Trillion dollars to pay off the national debt AND bailout every farmer and industry hurt by them.

Hey, we have to try!  Right?
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline 240B

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Re: No, We Aren't Going to Pay Off the National Debt With Tariff Revenue
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2018, 04:10:44 pm »
I LOVE headlines like this one. Every time the 'hair on fire' Liberals declare that Trump cannot do something, every time they declare that something he does 'will never work', it always turns out to be a resounding success. Based on Trumps accomplishments so far, the more the Liberals, Socialists, and NeverTrumps complain, the more confident it makes me that Trump is on to something.

Trump is a winner who wins. Crybabies are losers who lose.
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists.

Offline INVAR

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Re: No, We Aren't Going to Pay Off the National Debt With Tariff Revenue
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2018, 05:39:20 pm »
I LOVE headlines like this one. Every time the 'hair on fire' Liberals declare that Trump cannot do something, every time they declare that something he does 'will never work', it always turns out to be a resounding success. Based on Trumps accomplishments so far, the more the Liberals, Socialists, and NeverTrumps complain, the more confident it makes me that Trump is on to something.

Trump is a winner who wins. Crybabies are losers who lose.

Until you feel the pain in your own wallet, then we either blame someone else for the pain or whine like crybabies about it.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline ABX

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Re: No, We Aren't Going to Pay Off the National Debt With Tariff Revenue
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2018, 05:45:01 pm »
I LOVE headlines like this one. Every time the 'hair on fire' Liberals declare that Trump cannot do something, every time they declare that something he does 'will never work', it always turns out to be a resounding success. Based on Trumps accomplishments so far, the more the Liberals, Socialists, and NeverTrumps complain, the more confident it makes me that Trump is on to something.

Trump is a winner who wins. Crybabies are losers who lose.

Interesting. A far right publication that has always advocated for extremely limited government, calling out an actual mathematical flaw (1+1 still equals 2) in an unconstitutional move by the federal government's executive branch (article 1, section 8, clause one, taxes and tariffs must originate in Congress, they haven't approved them) is somehow 'liberal'.

Maybe only in the classical liberal sense instead of progressive sense.

Offline 240B

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Re: No, We Aren't Going to Pay Off the National Debt With Tariff Revenue
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2018, 06:44:08 pm »
Interesting. A far right publication that has always advocated for extremely limited government, calling out an actual mathematical flaw (1+1 still equals 2) in an unconstitutional move by the federal government's executive branch (article 1, section 8, clause one, taxes and tariffs must originate in Congress, they haven't approved them) is somehow 'liberal'.

Maybe only in the classical liberal sense instead of progressive sense.

Congress has become a 'shadow' organization. They are just placeholders, and that is just how they like it. Depending on Congress to do something/anything is futile. They refuse to act on anything. They refuse to do their jobs. Congress as it has been is gone. Today they are all just weasels and money grubbing cretins who don't give a damn about anything. They are circling the drain of history. The very idea of Congress acting on tariffs is ridiculous.

Congress loves it when the President acts in their stead. Not only do they never do anything about it, on the contrary, they welcome it. Because it means that they do not have to do anything. It frees them from any responsibility. This is exactly why Obama was able to get away with anything and everything he wanted to do, no matter how illegal and unconstitutional his actions were. Because Congress simply doesn't care, and most Judges are Leftist shills, there was no one around to stop him.
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists.

Offline ABX

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Re: No, We Aren't Going to Pay Off the National Debt With Tariff Revenue
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2018, 06:50:42 pm »
Congress has become a 'shadow' organization. They are just placeholders, and that is just how they like it. Depending on Congress to do something/anything is futile. They refuse to act on anything. They refuse to do their jobs. Congress as it has been is gone. Today they are all just weasels and money grubbing cretins who don't give a damn about anything. They are circling the drain of history. The very idea of Congress acting on tariffs is ridiculous.

Congress loves it when the President acts in their stead. Not only do they never do anything about it, on the contrary, they welcome it. Because it means that they do not have to do anything. It frees them from any responsibility. This is exactly why Obama was able to get away with anything and everything he wanted to do, no matter how illegal and unconstitutional his actions were. Because Congress simply doesn't care, and most Judges are Leftist shills, there was no one around to stop him.

It doesn't matter if they refuse or don't refuse to do their job, it is still their role. By not calling it for a vote, they are in essence, not giving it a rubber stamp approval and it is illegal.

You don't go in with the assumption this has to be done by 'any means necessary.' We are a representative republic ruled governed by the Constitution. If you don't like that your Congressman isn't calling this up for a vote, then vote to remove that Congressman. But until Congress acts, these tariffs are in direct violation of the Constitution.

Unless we are back to accepting 'rule' the way Obama did it, with a 'pen and a phone'- limited Constitutional government be damned.

Offline 240B

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Re: No, We Aren't Going to Pay Off the National Debt With Tariff Revenue
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2018, 07:07:29 pm »
We are were founded as a representative republic ruled governed by the Constitution. I'm not happy about it, but I have come to accept that those days are gone. Congress has abdicated their role in governance. They don't want it, and they refuse to do it.

Maybe a robust active Congress will come back some day, after this current last-century generation dies off. But it will not happen any time soon, that's for sure.
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists.

Offline INVAR

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Re: No, We Aren't Going to Pay Off the National Debt With Tariff Revenue
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2018, 07:39:23 pm »
We are were founded as a representative republic ruled governed by the Constitution. I'm not happy about it, but I have come to accept that those days are gone. Congress has abdicated their role in governance. They don't want it, and they refuse to do it.

Maybe a robust active Congress will come back some day, after this current last-century generation dies off. But it will not happen any time soon, that's for sure.

While I can fully agree with your sentiment - justifying whatever means to serve ends is the surest way to the complete burial of Constitutional supremacy and rule of law fostering the institution of the very tyranny you are attempting to avoid.

But then Adams himself prophetically warned: "Liberty once lost is never regained.  When the People once surrender their share in the Legislature, and their Right of defending the Limitations upon the Government, and of resisting every Encroachment upon them, they can never regain it."

I think your sentiments above and the approval of justifying means to achieve ends, prove his statement as fulfilled prophecy.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline EasyAce

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No, We Aren't Going to Pay Off the National Debt With Tariff Revenue
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2018, 07:49:19 pm »
Tariffs will generate $21 billion this year—just .01 percent of the national debt. And aren't these tariffs supposed to be about national security?
By Eric Boehm
http://reason.com/blog/2018/08/06/no-we-arent-going-to-pay-off-the-nationa

Quote
Officially, the Trump administration's position is that tariffs on aluminum and steel are a national security issue.

Unofficially, President Donald Trump has trotted out just about every imaginable justification for new taxes on imports, claiming that the tariffs are needed to create leverage for renegotiating trade deals, that they are meant to punish China for stealing American companies' intellectual property, even that they're a retaliation for Canada's decision to charge high import duties on American milk—as if that were something that would justify a potentially destructive trade war.

In a weekend tweetstorm, Trump raised the bar yet again in his race to offer the most ludicrous justification for his tariffs. Now he says they'll help the United States pay off the $21 trillion national debt . . . It's amazing thing just how many falsehoods Trump manages to pack into roughly 500 characters.

No, the tariffs are not "working big time." If they were, the White House wouldn't be planning to spend $12 billion bailing out farmers who have been hurt by the trade war. Nor would thousands of companies be lining up at the Commerce Department to ask for exemptions from those tariffs. Indeed, the fact that Trump keeps flailing around for new arguments to justify his policy is a sign that his protectionist scheme is unraveling, both intellectually and diplomatically . . .


"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

Fake news---news you don't like or don't want to hear.

Offline corbe

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Re: No, We Aren't Going to Pay Off the National Debt With Tariff Revenue
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2018, 09:34:57 pm »
President Trump Is Staggeringly Ignorant When It Comes to Tariffs and the Trade Deficit

Posted at 10:30 am on August 5, 2018 by Andrea Ruth


Trade is no doubt, a complicated issue. Various countries have their laws, regulations, tax structures and more that have to get reconciled with multiple other nations. It is the reason why there is a World Trade Organization — a body that can resolve disputes between trading partners. But there are basics as well.

Donald Trump cannot even get the basics right. And while he continues to lead us down the destructive path of a trade war, he continues to raise the bar on his level of ignorance about tariffs. It’s stunning that a person with an economics degree from Wharton can think in such bumbling ways and can lead one to ask, “How much did Fred Trump pay for Donald’s degree?”

If there has been one consistency in Donald Trump’s lifespan, it’s been the notion the United States is continuously getting “ripped off” by other countries. Trump sees everything through a lens of winning and losing. That’s why he get’s so animated about the trade deficit and yells about how much we’re “losing” to other countries. For some reason, Trump cannot fathom the idea of two nations sharing mutual benefits with one coming out ahead more. He sees trade deficits like they’re a utility bill. If our trade deficit with the fictional country Krakatoa is $5 billion, Trump thinks we’re writing a check at the end of the year to the King of Krakatoa for $5 billion.

<..snip..>

https://www.redstate.com/prevaila/2018/08/05/president-trump-staggeringly-ignorant-comes-tariffs-trade-deficit/
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline ABX

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Re: No, We Aren't Going to Pay Off the National Debt With Tariff Revenue
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2018, 09:42:06 pm »
We are were founded as a representative republic ruled governed by the Constitution. I'm not happy about it, but I have come to accept that those days are gone. Congress has abdicated their role in governance. They don't want it, and they refuse to do it.

Maybe a robust active Congress will come back some day, after this current last-century generation dies off. But it will not happen any time soon, that's for sure.

And accepting actions like this is exactly why we were. At that, because our side is the one accepting these actions, we no longer can look to 'them', progressives, as the reason, we need a big old mirror to why we have lost it or are losing it. The choice is do we continue to just accept this as the norm and keep sliding down that path or do we do as William F Buckley said, and yell 'Stop'?


Offline Sanguine

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Re: No, We Aren't Going to Pay Off the National Debt With Tariff Revenue
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2018, 09:59:46 pm »
President Trump Is Staggeringly Ignorant When It Comes to Tariffs and the Trade Deficit

Posted at 10:30 am on August 5, 2018 by Andrea Ruth


Trade is no doubt, a complicated issue. Various countries have their laws, regulations, tax structures and more that have to get reconciled with multiple other nations. It is the reason why there is a World Trade Organization — a body that can resolve disputes between trading partners. But there are basics as well.

Donald Trump cannot even get the basics right. And while he continues to lead us down the destructive path of a trade war, he continues to raise the bar on his level of ignorance about tariffs. It’s stunning that a person with an economics degree from Wharton can think in such bumbling ways and can lead one to ask, “How much did Fred Trump pay for Donald’s degree?”

If there has been one consistency in Donald Trump’s lifespan, it’s been the notion the United States is continuously getting “ripped off” by other countries. Trump sees everything through a lens of winning and losing. That’s why he get’s so animated about the trade deficit and yells about how much we’re “losing” to other countries. For some reason, Trump cannot fathom the idea of two nations sharing mutual benefits with one coming out ahead more. He sees trade deficits like they’re a utility bill. If our trade deficit with the fictional country Krakatoa is $5 billion, Trump thinks we’re writing a check at the end of the year to the King of Krakatoa for $5 billion.

<..snip..>

https://www.redstate.com/prevaila/2018/08/05/president-trump-staggeringly-ignorant-comes-tariffs-trade-deficit/

I feel Ms. Ruth's pain, but, respectfully, she really doesn't get it.  Trump doesn't understand all/most of the details.  Never did, never will.  He sees an international situation where the US is and has been getting ripped off by unfair trade practices, and he is using methods at his disposal to correct that.  I think he may just succeed. 

Ms. Ruth, and me up until recently, expect that a reasonable president will have all of this information and minutiae at hand and at a least a high level understanding of what he needs to know.  Now, why either one of us would think that after 8 (looooooong) years of the 0bama administration, I don't know.  0bama and crew put in one of the most clueless, amateur, and strictly ideologically driven administrations ever.  Trump may prove in hindsight to have done much better in this area that 0bama.

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: No, We Aren't Going to Pay Off the National Debt With Tariff Revenue
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2018, 03:21:57 pm »
I LOVE headlines like this one. Every time the 'hair on fire' Liberals declare that Trump cannot do something, every time they declare that something he does 'will never work', it always turns out to be a resounding success. Based on Trumps accomplishments so far, the more the Liberals, Socialists, and NeverTrumps complain, the more confident it makes me that Trump is on to something.

Trump is a winner who wins. Crybabies are losers who lose.
Yep. the Headline is Journalistic Malpractice.  It is not factual and only meant to distort what Trump said, which is factually correct.  Tariffs will help to reduce the deficit.

No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: No, We Aren't Going to Pay Off the National Debt With Tariff Revenue
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2018, 03:28:15 pm »
Interesting. A far right publication that has always advocated for extremely limited government, calling out an actual mathematical flaw (1+1 still equals 2) in an unconstitutional move by the federal government's executive branch (article 1, section 8, clause one, taxes and tariffs must originate in Congress, they haven't approved them) is somehow 'liberal'.

Maybe only in the classical liberal sense instead of progressive sense.
Maybe in your own mind Congress has not approved them, but in fact there are already laws passed by Congress that allow the Executive broad authority to impose tariffs.  Laws such as Trade Act of 1974, Section 122.

Congress can pass laws that rescind some of the laws they previously enacted but they have not done so.

You are seeing unconstitutional behavior where there is none.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline INVAR

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Re: No, We Aren't Going to Pay Off the National Debt With Tariff Revenue
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2018, 04:09:12 pm »
Tariffs will help to reduce the deficit.

Even if by some suspension of economic law and human nature to make such an impossible miracle happen - the fact we are now bailing out American farmers and soon industries hurt or crushed by this fun little trade war Trump is waging the tune of BILLIONS - erases and negates any pie-in-the-sky hoped for deficit reductions.  We're just shifting numbers from deficits to debt.

Americans are now having to pay higher punitive taxes for what they want or need from foreign sources and Americans are going to have to pay higher taxes now to bail out the other Americans who have lost revenue.

« Last Edit: August 07, 2018, 04:14:58 pm by INVAR »
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline ABX

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Re: No, We Aren't Going to Pay Off the National Debt With Tariff Revenue
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2018, 04:28:47 pm »
Yep. the Headline is Journalistic Malpractice.  It is not factual and only meant to distort what Trump said, which is factually correct.  Tariffs will help to reduce the deficit.

Funny, conservatives have always argued reducing taxes, not increasing them, is what will reduce the deficit. Maybe we need to look back again at tariffs on income if that's how it works.

Although, we have some of the recent tariffs now going back about 6 months (well beyond the 60 days required for the President to submit them to congress for approval- still not done), and the debt is still going up and the rate of debt increasing is continuing to climb.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/


« Last Edit: August 07, 2018, 04:31:07 pm by AbaraXas »

Offline thackney

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Re: No, We Aren't Going to Pay Off the National Debt With Tariff Revenue
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2018, 05:23:24 pm »
Maybe in your own mind Congress has not approved them, but in fact there are already laws passed by Congress that allow the Executive broad authority to impose tariffs.  Laws such as Trade Act of 1974, Section 122.

Congress can pass laws that rescind some of the laws they previously enacted but they have not done so.

You are seeing unconstitutional behavior where there is none.

Thank you for that reference.

TRADE ACT OF 1974
http://legcounsel.house.gov/Comps/TRADE74.PDF

Quote
...(3) to cooperate with other countries in correcting an international
balance-of-payments disequilibrium,
the President shall proclaim, for a period not exceeding 150 days
(unless such period is extended by Act of Congress)—
(A) a temporary import surcharge, not to exceed 15
percent
ad valorem, in the form of duties (in addition to
those already imposed, if any) on articles imported into the
United States;
(B) temporary limitations through the use of quotas on
the importation of articles into the United States; or
(C) both a temporary import surcharge described in
subparagraph (A) and temporary limitations described in
subparagraph (B)....
Life is fragile, handle with prayer

Offline ABX

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Re: No, We Aren't Going to Pay Off the National Debt With Tariff Revenue
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2018, 05:32:46 pm »
Maybe in your own mind Congress has not approved them, but in fact there are already laws passed by Congress that allow the Executive broad authority to impose tariffs.  Laws such as Trade Act of 1974, Section 122.

Congress can pass laws that rescind some of the laws they previously enacted but they have not done so.

You are seeing unconstitutional behavior where there is none.

Those acts allow for limited emergency action. In the case of the Trade Act of 1974, it limits the action to no more than 15% (Trump violated that), sections 301 & 301 as well as section 123, also still required to the President to return to Congress for approval within a short period of time. It does not take Congress out of the picture, it just gives the President approval for action in times of national emergency- similar to the war powers act for trade.

Example, Section 125 (just one of several that imposes this time limit on various trade actions)-

Within 60 days after the date of any such termination or withdrawal, the President shall transmit to the Congress his recommendations as to the appropriate rates of duty for all articles which were affected by the termination or withdrawal or would have been so affected but for the preceding sentence. (f) Before taking any action pursuant to subsection (b), (c), or (d), the President shall provide for a public hearing during the course of which interested persons shall be given a reasonable opportunity to be present, to produce evidence, and to be heard, unless he determines that such prior hearings will be contrary to the national interest because of the need for expeditious action, in which case he shall provide for a public hearing promptly after such action.

Offline ABX

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Re: No, We Aren't Going to Pay Off the National Debt With Tariff Revenue
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2018, 05:34:52 pm »
Thank you for that reference.

TRADE ACT OF 1974
http://legcounsel.house.gov/Comps/TRADE74.PDF

Thanks, and see the note right above this from section 125- he is required to submit them for public congressional hearings within 60 days. So it imposes limited duration and a cut off time they must be submitted.

Again, just like the War Powers Act, but for trade.

Offline INVAR

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Re: No, We Aren't Going to Pay Off the National Debt With Tariff Revenue
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2018, 05:55:53 pm »
Those acts allow for limited emergency action. In the case of the Trade Act of 1974, it limits the action to no more than 15% (Trump violated that), sections 301 & 301 as well as section 123, also still required to the President to return to Congress for approval within a short period of time. It does not take Congress out of the picture, it just gives the President approval for action in times of national emergency- similar to the war powers act for trade.

Example, Section 125 (just one of several that imposes this time limit on various trade actions)-

Within 60 days after the date of any such termination or withdrawal, the President shall transmit to the Congress his recommendations as to the appropriate rates of duty for all articles which were affected by the termination or withdrawal or would have been so affected but for the preceding sentence. (f) Before taking any action pursuant to subsection (b), (c), or (d), the President shall provide for a public hearing during the course of which interested persons shall be given a reasonable opportunity to be present, to produce evidence, and to be heard, unless he determines that such prior hearings will be contrary to the national interest because of the need for expeditious action, in which case he shall provide for a public hearing promptly after such action.

While this is all true, it doesn't matter anymore.

Obama was given a green light by the GOP to get away with similar lawlessness.

Lawlessness is now precedent, and being institutionalized as part of the Imperial Presidency.

Why would we expect the GOP to hold their own accountable?

Besides, the Trumsplicans don't give a crap about the rule of law anymore than the Left does.  They have told us so boldly in the last few weeks.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2018, 05:56:50 pm by INVAR »
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Bigun

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Re: No, We Aren't Going to Pay Off the National Debt With Tariff Revenue
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2018, 06:03:02 pm »
Interesting. A far right publication that has always advocated for extremely limited government, calling out an actual mathematical flaw (1+1 still equals 2) in an unconstitutional move by the federal government's executive branch (article 1, section 8, clause one, taxes and tariffs must originate in Congress, they haven't approved them) is somehow 'liberal'.

Maybe only in the classical liberal sense instead of progressive sense.

@AbaraXas

The Constitution also grants the Congress the power to "coin money and regulate the value thereof".  Doesn't say a damned word about giving them the authority to dump that responsibility off on a group of PRIVATE banks mostly owned by foreigners.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline ABX

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Re: No, We Aren't Going to Pay Off the National Debt With Tariff Revenue
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2018, 06:13:14 pm »
@AbaraXas

The Constitution also grants the Congress the power to "coin money and regulate the value thereof".  Doesn't say a damned word about giving them the authority to dump that responsibility off on a group of PRIVATE banks mostly owned by foreigners.

True, but not germane in this conversation. If we are willing to just scrap the Constitution because some fail in their duties to it, what's the point of fighting for any part.

Screw the 2nd Amendment, Congress doesn't follow the Constitution on other things so I guess we just have to accept them not following it with this.

You want troops quartered in my home, well hell, go ahead big brother. You don't follow the Constitution any way.

Due process, who needs it?




OR

When you see a violation do you stand up and call it out, even if they are failing in other areas.

I would even argue the right has a double responsibility to do this both because we are in charge (clean our own house first) and also because our side is the one who at least in the past, gave lip service to following it.


If not us then whom?