Author Topic: How the non-waiver trade winds blew  (Read 1473 times)

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Offline EasyAce

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How the non-waiver trade winds blew
« on: August 01, 2018, 05:08:14 pm »
By Yours Truly
https://throneberryfields.blogspot.com/2018/08/how-non-waiver-trade-winds-blew.html


Jose Reyes hangs his head as ex-Met Daniel
Murphy rounds the bases on one of his two
Tuesday night homers amidst a Nats massacre.
Reyes ended up pitching the eighth . . . and
surrendering six more Nats runs . . .



Well, now. The Nationals decided to stand pat for the non-waiver trade deadline, especially when it came to last-day-night-and-morning speculation that Bryce Harper would be cashed in for some stretch drive and even beyond blue chips while the cashing was still warm enough. The juiciest rumour mill grindings had the Indians looking to work a deal for the right fielder who's been the Nats' franchise face since his original advent.

General manager Mike Rizzo tried to quash that speculation almost a full twenty-four hours before the 4:00 p.m. EDT deadline Tuesday. Harper himself let it slip that Rizzo assured him personally, around the same time, that he wasn't going anywhere just yet. While he was at it, Rizzo resisted the temptation to flip recently-acquired reliever Kelvim Herrera despite the bullpen-needy Red Sox's interest.

And maybe it put a shot of rocket fuel into the confidence of a team entering Tuesday night play a game under .500 and dealing with reams of chatter describing their clubhouse as something of . . . well, if not a full blown mess, at least a place comparable to the Mad Hatter's tea party for secured clubhouse leadership. Even against the basket-case Mets, teams that dysfunctional don't go out and have a 25-4 romp in which they scored nineteen runs in the first five innings.

The game set a Nats franchise record for single-game scoring and a Mets franchise record for taking the worst single-game beating in their history. The worst beatings the Original Mets took were a pair by the Dodgers, 17-8 in May 1962 and 17-3 in July 1962; the worst taken by the Worst Team That Money Could Buy in 1993 was a 13-4 burial by the Giants near the end of that April.

Harper himself started the party Tuesday night with an RBI double to kick off the seven-run first. He helped himself to another RBI double in the fourth. The Nats sent seven runs home in the first and three home each from the second through the fifth. And Daniel Murphy, a Mets' discard after his porous defense helped cost them the 2015 World Series despite his record-setting bombing earlier that postseason, homered in the second and the third.

After being kept scoreless in the sixth and the seventh, the Nats got an unlikely present from the Mets in veteran shortstop Jose Reyes taking the mound and one for the team for the bottom of the eighth, the better not to force the Mets to waste either Robert Gsellman or Sean Lugo, their usual back-of-the-pen men.

Take one for the team? What Reyes took may secure a case against the Nats before the Hague. Matt Adams, a mid-game insertion for Harper in right field, hit a two-run homer; and, pinch hitter Mark Reynolds hit a three run homer. It got so bad that, when soft-tossing Reyes bumped Ryan Zimmerman in his second plate appearance of the inning, Zimmerman went into a mock ooooh-you-hurt-my-little-knee bit and faked a charge to the mound, cracking himself and Reyes up at the same time.

Whether or not the massacre proves the turnaround for the Nats---it put them back to .500 and 5.5 games behind the first place Phillies in the National League East---they made Rizzo look like a genius for standing mostly pat for the non-waiver deadline. So who looked smart and who looked not so smart for the deadline?

Smart:

* The Nats. Obviously. Even though they could, in theory, have gotten a nice haul back for Harper and then sought to re-romance him during the offseason. Rizzo thinks this team as it is can still win. Tuesday night may yet prove an exaggerated affirmation, but don't underestimate the morale boost that kind of destruction can give the destroyers. Especially if Harper begins to rebuild himself on his 2-for-4/two-RBI/three runs scored Tuesday night.

* The Pirates. They bagged Tampa Bay's Chris Archer, who may not be quite as good as the guy they traded in the offseason (Gerrit Cole), but who's under team control through 2021 and is good enough to augment their staff for a stretch run toward the wild card. And all they had to surrender was a minor league outfielder (Austin Meadows) whose promise seems to have hit a wall for now and a minor league pitcher (Tyler Glasnow) with live stuff but strike zone issues.

* The Braves. They helped themselves to Baltimore's Kevin Gausman for a package of prospects below their top-ten ratings. Gausman, too, is under team control for another couple of years, and he's a solid enough starter to help line the Braves up for a wild card run at minimum.

* The Dodgers. They landed Minnesota's Brian Dozier almost a week after they bagged Manny Machado. Their infield depth got deeper and what they can run out to start games is dangerous enough, even if part of the impetus behind both deals might have been Justin Turner's health and the hope that Dozier heats up in the second half the way he's done the past two seasons. If that holds and the Dodgers go all the way, they may not look so foolish for not landing the setup reliever they really need.

* The Brewers. They were only too happy to deal for Mike Moustakas and Jonathan Schoop while killing the Travis Shaw experiment at second base in its crib. Moustakas may yet prove a rental since he's on a single-season deal, but now that they have a couple of extra lineup options and a lot more flexibility defensively---which might make up for a staggering shortage of range among the parts---the Brewers may give the Cubs a push down the stretch in the NL Central.

* The Yankees. Knowing that the Mets weren't really opening the door to Jacob deGrom or Noah Syndergaard, the Yankees didn't let that stop them, even if it looked at first like they fortified their already lights-out bullpen along the line of further, earlier game reinforcement if and when their starters falter down the stretch. Zach Britton alone graduates the Yankee bullpen from dangerous to imperialist.

But they also landed J.A. Happ. And Happ looked terrific in his first Yankee start. Then he came down with the same ailment that put Syndergaard on the temporary shelf---hand, foot, and mouth disease. His absence won't be long. And he does give the Yankees solid rotation help for the stretch drive.

Not so Smart:

* The Astros. Just about everyone in baseball pushed the outrage button when they unloaded disgraced former closer Ken Giles, relegated to the minors last month, in a deal to bring aboard a guy the Blue Jays couldn't wait to get rid of thanks to the domestic violence charges hanging over his head. Nobody knows which looked worse, pursuing and getting Roberto Osuna in the first place, or general manager Jeff Luhnow's mealymouthed defense of the acquisition forcing Justin Verlander---maybe the most outspoken Astro against domestic violence---to take a wait-and-see public position.

* The Red Sox. The beasts of the American League East needed bullpen help . . . and got another starting pitcher, Nathan Eovaldi, possibly right after the Nats made clear they weren't willing to part with Herrera. He's good. He's better than serviceable. He might even be a pen option in the postseason. Maybe the Red Sox think they can still out-hit the league down the stretch, but at least a setup man or a sixth-to-seventh-inning arm would have made life a little simpler.

* The Rockies. They needed bullpen help even more. Though you can't necessarily blame general manager Jeff Bridich for fearing a move would blow up in his face considering what his $106 million offseason bullpen investment turned into in the first half.

* The Indians. Their once-insurmountable bullpen is still something of a mess. So they went out and landed a center fielder. Leonys Martin is the name. He plays center field, he can hit a little, but his production this year isn't exactly the kind that would have made him the star of the non-waiver trade period.

Let's Not Go There:

* The Rays. What does it tell you that the team's own depth chart has no starting pitchers on it anymore?

Don't Even Think About:

* The Mess (er, Mets). They could (should?) have hit the hardest re-set button of all if they'd been willing to part ways with . . . well, forget Jacob deGrom, whose departure probably would incite a Citi Field insurrection. But they could have gotten some yummy returns for Noah Syndergaard and/or Zach Wheeler.

They got a couple of nice prospects from the Phillies for Asdrubal Cabrera; they got a so-so pitching prospect from the A's for their now-former closer Jeurys Familia; but not being willing to sound the charge with Syndergaard and/or Wheeler when there were contenders out there in need of a starter or two and willing to part with prime prospects or even solid major league-ready youth is just another black eye on the current Mess.

Maybe they're waiting until the offseason to think about such moves. And maybe we can learn about love from Queen Athaliah.
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« Last Edit: August 01, 2018, 05:10:03 pm by EasyAce »


"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

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Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: How the non-waiver trade winds blew
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2018, 05:20:38 pm »
* The Astros. Just about everyone in baseball pushed the outrage button when they unloaded disgraced former closer Ken Giles, relegated to the minors last month, in a deal to bring aboard a guy the Blue Jays couldn't wait to get rid of thanks to the domestic violence charges hanging over his head. Nobody knows which looked worse, pursuing and getting Roberto Osuna in the first place, or general manager Jeff Luhnow's mealymouthed defense of the acquisition forcing Justin Verlander---maybe the most outspoken Astro against domestic violence---to take a wait-and-see public position.

In 2003 Julio Lugo was reassigned, the day after his arrest for spousal abuse. 10 days later, he was released.
Granted, that was under a different regime, but it does seem hypocritical for them to trade for Osuna now.
Luhnow says he is remorseful, etc. and Osuna denies it all, so it's all very murky.
We're scratching our heads here, that's for sure.

Here's an article about the situation:

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/columnists/dialcreech/article/Apparently-zero-tolerance-policy-has-a-fluid-13118322.php?utm_campaign=chron&utm_source=article&utm_medium=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.chron.com%2Fsports%2Fastros%2Farticle%2FWhat-we-know-about-Astros-reliever-Roberto-Osuna-13119820.php%23photo-15943822

A Quote from the article:

"Luhnow said he thinks the character of the Astros can help Osuna with a fresh start. Maybe it can, but it’s not up to the Astros to rehabilitate Osuna’s image.

And if they truly had a zero-tolerance policy for domestic violence, they wouldn’t even try."
« Last Edit: August 01, 2018, 05:21:13 pm by GrouchoTex »

Online corbe

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Re: How the non-waiver trade winds blew
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2018, 05:22:53 pm »
   The Astros trade really perplexed me, @EasyAce why pizz off Verlander? 
   It would be like D'Antonio pizzing off Harden or Paul with the Carmelo acquisition today (they are both on board).
   Prima donnas must be coddled, to be effective, IMHO.

   Great writeup, as usual. Thanks for posting.
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Offline DCPatriot

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Re: How the non-waiver trade winds blew
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2018, 05:25:22 pm »
With the NATS...it all hinges on Tanner Roark being the 'real' thing, as he's shown in his last two starts.

And of course how effective will Stephen Strasburg be?  His physical resume suggests he is Tiffany glass.  Now, it's a pinched nerve in the neck.

I'm surprised they didn't make a play for Chris Archer.  They need that kind of personality injected into this rotation. 
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Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: How the non-waiver trade winds blew
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2018, 06:15:45 pm »
   The Astros trade really perplexed me, @EasyAce why pizz off Verlander? 
   It would be like D'Antonio pizzing off Harden or Paul with the Carmelo acquisition today (they are both on board).
   Prima donnas must be coddled, to be effective, IMHO.

   Great writeup, as usual. Thanks for posting.

The Astros seemed like a bunch of little leaguers, and I mean that with the upmost respect.
They seemed to genuinely love to play, and it was infectious, the fans responded.
They are heavily involved in the community, and it doesn't come off in a cynical way, as if they had to be prodded to do it, or as a contractual obligation.
Don't forget the Hurricane Harvey support, even though they were affected as residents, as well.
They were easy to root for.
Now? I'm not so sure how that's going to play out anymore.

Another thing that was brought up by the local media was Osuna's work status.
If he were found guilty, it is quite possible that Osuna would not be allow to play in Canada anymore, they could revoke his work permit.
He may have been deported anyway, which makes me scratch my head even more.
Why trade for a guy that may be looking for a job on his own?

The whole thing seems bizarre.

Luhnow's had a good track record and a good reputation, I hope this is a one-time glitch.

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Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: How the non-waiver trade winds blew
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2018, 06:17:59 pm »
With the NATS...it all hinges on Tanner Roark being the 'real' thing, as he's shown in his last two starts.

And of course how effective will Stephen Strasburg be?  His physical resume suggests he is Tiffany glass.  Now, it's a pinched nerve in the neck.

I'm surprised they didn't make a play for Chris Archer.  They need that kind of personality injected into this rotation.

I hear ya.
Part of me thought there could be an Archer/Harper deal if the works.

Offline EasyAce

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Re: How the non-waiver trade winds blew
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2018, 06:38:44 pm »
I hear ya.
Part of me thought there could be an Archer/Harper deal if the works.
@GrouchoTex
@DCPatriot
If they were going to trade Bryce Harper before Tuesday's non-waiver deadline, it would have been for a prime-cut package of prospects and maybe immediate bullpen help especially with Sean Doolittle going down with an injury. Their rotation is solid enough even with a few July hiccups and Strasburg's injury.


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Offline DCPatriot

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Re: How the non-waiver trade winds blew
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2018, 06:51:40 pm »
@GrouchoTex
@DCPatriot
If they were going to trade Bryce Harper before Tuesday's non-waiver deadline, it would have been for a prime-cut package of prospects and maybe immediate bullpen help especially with Sean Doolittle going down with an injury. Their rotation is solid enough even with a few July hiccups and Strasburg's injury.

Sorry, sensei.....like hell!

Their rotation will not hold up going down the home stretch.  The NATS have to play .600 ball to catch the division title.  Who wants to put all on the line in a wildcard game elimination...with THIS lineup?  No thanks.

Personally, I would have let Harper go for good prospects, hoping there's another Trey Turner or Wilmer Difoe.

This 19 year old Juan Soto is making Bryce look inept...in the box anyway.   The field is another matter.  Although Harper's not looking like a Gold Glove candidate anytime soon.
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Offline EasyAce

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Re: How the non-waiver trade winds blew
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2018, 07:20:19 pm »
Sorry, sensei.....like hell!
That may have been the only way Mike Rizzo would have dared trade Harper at the non-waiver deadline. Though if he was also thinking he could re-sign Harper in the offseason as a free agent after such a trade, that would have been rolling some very serious dice.

Their rotation will not hold up going down the home stretch.  The NATS have to play .600 ball to catch the division title.  Who wants to put all on the line in a wildcard game elimination...with THIS lineup?  No thanks.
If they keep playing the way they did Tuesday night with or without blowouts, they could do it. I can't remember the last time they played that cohesively in a single game other than those Max Scherzer and (before the injuries) Stephen Strasburg were starting. Remember---they're only five and a half behind the first-place Phillies. That's not an insurmountable deficit down this stretch. They have the second-best run differential in the division behind the Braves. I think their chances are better than you think, though it probably wouldn't hurt them to find another starter even in the waiver trade period just for insurance.

Personally, I would have let Harper go for good prospects, hoping there's another Trey Turner or Wilmer Difoe.
You and a lot of people. Even I thought Harper would go for a package of prospects and maybe a major league-ready kid. Like I said, Rizzo's rolling big dice here. He won't get anything other than one fifth-round-or-later draft pick in the offseason if Harper rejects a qualifying offer and hits the open market. Though unless Harper's season picks up on the level he played Tuesday night, he might be best advised to re-up with the Nats for a single season for next year, finish rehorsing, and then test his open market if he wants to. He'll only be 26 at that point.

This 19 year old Juan Soto is making Bryce look inept...in the box anyway.   The field is another matter.  Although Harper's not looking like a Gold Glove candidate anytime soon.
Soto has a better slash line but he isn't as run productive as Harper is even with Harper's plate struggling. Harper's actually playing better center field than right field this year, when he plays center field---he's a little above the league-average center fielder but a little below the league-average right fielder. Something the Nats might want to think about down the stretch.


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Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: How the non-waiver trade winds blew
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2018, 07:23:30 pm »
@GrouchoTex
@DCPatriot
If they were going to trade Bryce Harper before Tuesday's non-waiver deadline, it would have been for a prime-cut package of prospects and maybe immediate bullpen help especially with Sean Doolittle going down with an injury. Their rotation is solid enough even with a few July hiccups and Strasburg's injury.

Perhaps, but if they get hot, and egos didn't come into play, having one of your starters come out of the pen in the playoffs, or during a stretch run, is a great luxury.
It sure worked out for the Astros last year, and this year, for the most part.
You can never have too many arms.
It can also come into play for future trades, if they aren't free agents the next year.

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Re: How the non-waiver trade winds blew
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2018, 08:02:31 pm »
Astros sending Giles packing.  A+++

Getting something, anything,  back in return for the  POS  A++++++++
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Offline EasyAce

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Re: How the non-waiver trade winds blew
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2018, 11:18:47 pm »
Getting a relief pitcher under suspension for domestic violence with his case still unresolved in court, back in return for a guy whose only offenses were actual baseball offenses, this by a team who supposedly prides itself on character uber alles, so much that they dumped a minor league prospect over his domestic violence in 2016 . . . F++++++++
Fixed.

Sorry. I've known too many women who were domestic violence victims to look the other way. (You try dating a woman who was a domestic violence victim. I've done it. It wasn't easy. When we broke up it had nothing to do with domestic violence in her past, but it stays with a woman longer than people think.) If and when Osuna's court case is resolved, then the Astros or another team can give him a second chance. But not until then. The Astros aren't a dumb organisation. They could have found another solid relief pitcher to deal for. (Why weren't they in on the reviving Zach Britton before the Yankees---who didn't really need bullpen help, since their pen is so deadly as it is this year---swept in and landed him? And Britton doesn't have domestic violence charges hanging over his head.)

The worst thing Ken Giles has ever done to anyone's knowledge is falter in a few big games and swear at his manager to get himself sent down and in time shipped out. That doesn't hold a candle to beating on a woman or being accused credibly of it.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2018, 11:21:16 pm by EasyAce »


"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

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Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: How the non-waiver trade winds blew
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2018, 12:39:47 pm »
Fixed.

Sorry. I've known too many women who were domestic violence victims to look the other way. (You try dating a woman who was a domestic violence victim. I've done it. It wasn't easy. When we broke up it had nothing to do with domestic violence in her past, but it stays with a woman longer than people think.) If and when Osuna's court case is resolved, then the Astros or another team can give him a second chance. But not until then. The Astros aren't a dumb organisation. They could have found another solid relief pitcher to deal for. (Why weren't they in on the reviving Zach Britton before the Yankees---who didn't really need bullpen help, since their pen is so deadly as it is this year---swept in and landed him? And Britton doesn't have domestic violence charges hanging over his head.)

The worst thing Ken Giles has ever done to anyone's knowledge is falter in a few big games and swear at his manager to get himself sent down and in time shipped out. That doesn't hold a candle to beating on a woman or being accused credibly of it.

 :amen:

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: How the non-waiver trade winds blew
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2018, 02:14:23 pm »
I always enjoy your posts about baseball, @EasyAce .

You didn't list the Phillies as either winners or losers, so I'll make the case they did well at the deadline as well.   

Their two greatest "holes" offensively are at short and behind the plate, and they filled both those holes with players who each have an OPS above .800.   Indeed, of the four players with an OPS above .800 who were moved at the deadline, the Phightins got two of 'em.   Wilson Ramos is also an upgrade defensively;  Astrubel Cabrera, of course, not so much.   But the Phils are trying to thread the needle between taking advantage of the opportunity that's presented itself this year, and keeping on track with their re-build.   They effectively shored up their two weakest positions offensively without giving away their top prospects (other than, arguably, Kilome).   

Most interesting to me is that they ended up NOT trading for an outfielder, although they'd been linked to a bunch of 'em in the weeks leading up the deadline.   That represents faith in Nick Williams,  but it also represents faith that Roman Quinn can be the fourth outfielder they need.  And with speed and sharp defense,  and a good ability to get on base,  he can be the weapon the team needs so long as he can stay healthy.

And finally, they didn't get a veteran starter,  and that's what most Phils phans are talking about now.  Are Pivetta and Eflin good enough?   They've pitched better than their stats show,  and the team obviously wants to keep running them out there, even as the innings pile up and the race tightens.   I predict they'll move to a six man rotation in September, using one or more of their AAA guys (de los Santos, Irwin, Suarez) to eat up some innings.   
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Offline EasyAce

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Re: How the non-waiver trade winds blew
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2018, 04:03:14 pm »
I always enjoy your posts about baseball, @EasyAce .

You didn't list the Phillies as either winners or losers, so I'll make the case they did well at the deadline as well.   
I felt neutral about the Phillies because . . .

* Wilson Ramos is a slight upgrade at the plate more than behind it, he's not as good behind the plate as he was in all those Washington seasons, and now he's out until the middle of the month with a hamstring issue.

* Asdrubal Cabrera would have been an upgrade if the Phillies had acquired him five years ago, and you have to wonder whether his defense now won't negate what he can still do at the plate, but the Phillies could have landed Manny Machado on a rental for the stretch drive before the Dodgers did, and they didn't. Most likely they didn't want to dig into their deep farm to make that happen, and I'm not all that sure you can blame them for that.

* They didn't get that veteran starting pitcher, but what's coming through the system looks impressive enough that they can probably afford to wait until the offseason.

* Nick Pivetta and Zack Elfin are going to be fine once they get through their first real taste of pennant competition. I think Elfin is the better of the two, right now, but they're both solid enough young pitchers. And the Phillies bullpen is good enough to block any fears of wringing too many innings out of those two down the stretch.

They didn't make any real non-waiver deadline splash . . . but they didn't really have to.


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Offline DCPatriot

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Re: How the non-waiver trade winds blew
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2018, 04:18:46 pm »

Harper's actually playing better center field than right field this year, when he plays center field---he's a little above the league-average center fielder but a little below the league-average right fielder. Something the Nats might want to think about down the stretch.


@EasyAce

It brings to mind the few times early season, when Bryce played it safe with the Right Field wall/corner/sideline wall/railing.

I chalked it up to it being his contract year and he wasn't about to injure himself going all out for a foul ball.

But he also had issues getting himself turned around, and throwing to the wrong base or overthrowing the cutoff man....like we used to see on the office softball team.  LOL!
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Offline EasyAce

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Re: How the non-waiver trade winds blew
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2018, 04:54:02 pm »
@EasyAce

It brings to mind the few times early season, when Bryce played it safe with the Right Field wall/corner/sideline wall/railing.

I chalked it up to it being his contract year and he wasn't about to injure himself going all out for a foul ball.
@DCPatriot
I think there's more than that going on. Hark back to earlier in Harper's career. The Nats used to tear their hair out over Harper acting like outfield walls were embraceable objects when running down balls and not the kind of objects that could injure. The managers for whom he played then were often heard saying they had to figure out a way to teach him that he wasn't going to have a long career trying to be the second coming of Pistol Pete Reiser.

Note to one and all who admire the "balls out" player: ask yourselves how much they really helped their teams or got out of their talent with that kind of play? Players like Pete Reiser, Ron Hunt, Butch Hobson, Darin Erstad, to name a few. Talent to burn. Played baseball games like every play was a goal-line stand. Banged themselves up enough to make themselves almost useless to their teams when their injuries either put them on the disabled list or turned them into liabilities on the field. What was the use of Hobson being a 30-homer guy when his shattered elbows turned him into an error machine who surrendered back maybe a little more than half the runs he produced? How long could the old Brooklyn Dodgers really rely on a Reiser who never met an outfield wall he couldn't kiss and maybe turned his body into a science experiment before his career was curtailed?

How much of the Angels' post-2002 shortfalls could have been avoided if Mike Scioscia wasn't so enamoured of Erstad despite him making himself less and less valuable to his team because playing the game like a football player kept him out of a lineup or out of the outfield? There's a line between hard-nosed and bull-headed, and only too many of the hard-nosed players cross it too often. Would the pre-2002 Angels have gotten farther than wild card games if Gary DiSarcina---considered their heart and soul in the mid-1990s---hadn't crossed the line between hard-nosed and bull-headed once too often?

Hark back to Jackie Robinson for a moment. Granted---he got a late start to his major league career because of World War II and the colour line which he himself had to break. His major league career lasted ten years. He put up a Hall of Fame career in that ten-year spread (and it wasn't just because he did break the colour line; he'd have been a Hall of Famer even if he was white), but his knees told him to call it a career after the 1956 season . . . when he was 37. Robinson was as hard-nosed as they came. How much longer might his career have lasted if he was merely the great Jackie Robinson and didn't play like a human tank? Beginning in 1953 he began playing fewer games per season; in the Dodgers' final two Brooklyn pennant seasons he wasn't half the factor he'd been in their previous pennants and World Series. Between playing hard in the infield and all those basepath tactics he used to either steal bases or rattle pitchers, his knees probably should have been donated to science. The miracle may actually be that his major league career lasted as long as it did.

But he also had issues getting himself turned around, and throwing to the wrong base or overthrowing the cutoff man....like we used to see on the office softball team.  LOL!
I wonder whether Harper's injury history hasn't taken a toll on him already. He's had hip, knees, neck, and shoulder injuries over his major league career; the closest he's gotten to playing a full major league season was when he played 153 games in his MVP season. When he first came up, he had a throwing arm to die for and smarts to match it; you wonder if the shoulder and neck issues he's had haven't siphoned something off his throwing ability.


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Offline DCPatriot

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Re: How the non-waiver trade winds blew
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2018, 05:10:27 pm »
@DCPatriot
I think there's more than that going on. Hark back to earlier in Harper's career. The Nats used to tear their hair out over Harper acting like outfield walls were embraceable objects when running down balls and not the kind of objects that could injure. The managers for whom he played then were often heard saying they had to figure out a way to teach him that he wasn't going to have a long career trying to be the second coming of Pistol Pete Reiser.

Note to one and all who admire the "balls out" player: ask yourselves how much they really helped their teams or got out of their talent with that kind of play? Players like Pete Reiser, Ron Hunt, Butch Hobson, Darin Erstad, to name a few. Talent to burn. Played baseball games like every play was a goal-line stand. Banged themselves up enough to make themselves almost useless to their teams when their injuries either put them on the disabled list or turned them into liabilities on the field. What was the use of Hobson being a 30-homer guy when his shattered elbows turned him into an error machine who surrendered back maybe a little more than half the runs he produced? How long could the old Brooklyn Dodgers really rely on a Reiser who never met an outfield wall he couldn't kiss and maybe turned his body into a science experiment before his career was curtailed?

How much of the Angels' post-2002 shortfalls could have been avoided if Mike Scioscia wasn't so enamoured of Erstad despite him making himself less and less valuable to his team because playing the game like a football player kept him out of a lineup or out of the outfield? There's a line between hard-nosed and bull-headed, and only too many of the hard-nosed players cross it too often. Would the pre-2002 Angels have gotten farther than wild card games if Gary DiSarcina---considered their heart and soul in the mid-1990s---hadn't crossed the line between hard-nosed and bull-headed once too often?

Hark back to Jackie Robinson for a moment. Granted---he got a late start to his major league career because of World War II and the colour line which he himself had to break. His major league career lasted ten years. He put up a Hall of Fame career in that ten-year spread (and it wasn't just because he did break the colour line; he'd have been a Hall of Famer even if he was white), but his knees told him to call it a career after the 1956 season . . . when he was 37. Robinson was as hard-nosed as they came. How much longer might his career have lasted if he was merely the great Jackie Robinson and didn't play like a human tank? Beginning in 1953 he began playing fewer games per season; in the Dodgers' final two Brooklyn pennant seasons he wasn't half the factor he'd been in their previous pennants and World Series. Between playing hard in the infield and all those basepath tactics he used to either steal bases or rattle pitchers, his knees probably should have been donated to science. The miracle may actually be that his major league career lasted as long as it did.
I wonder whether Harper's injury history hasn't taken a toll on him already. He's had hip, knees, neck, and shoulder injuries over his major league career; the closest he's gotten to playing a full major league season was when he played 153 games in his MVP season. When he first came up, he had a throwing arm to die for and smarts to match it; you wonder if the shoulder and neck issues he's had haven't siphoned something off his throwing ability.

Not talking about being 'hard-nosed'.  It's something else.   

It's like he's phoning it in out there...like his head is someplace else.  Throwing 30 feet offline to 3rd base on three hops? 

Just the other day he positions himself to catch a deep foul ball and a throw to home plate.  NOT!

He caught the ball and suddenly realized from a standstill position that he had to catch the runner breaking for the plate.

resulted in a tie game which they ultimately lost in 10 innings.

Oh..it wasn't reported or commented upon....but these 'baseball eyes' saw the whole thing.    :laugh:

« Last Edit: August 02, 2018, 05:11:52 pm by DCPatriot »
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Offline EasyAce

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Re: How the non-waiver trade winds blew
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2018, 05:44:04 pm »
Not talking about being 'hard-nosed'.  It's something else.   

It's like he's phoning it in out there...like his head is someplace else.  Throwing 30 feet offline to 3rd base on three hops? 

Just the other day he positions himself to catch a deep foul ball and a throw to home plate.  NOT!

He caught the ball and suddenly realized from a standstill position that he had to catch the runner breaking for the plate.

resulted in a tie game which they ultimately lost in 10 innings.

Oh..it wasn't reported or commented upon....but these 'baseball eyes' saw the whole thing.    :laugh:
He spoke diplomatically about his being a trade rumour subject but you have to wonder if that kind of thing doesn't get into any player's head at non-waiver time. Plus there's already
speculation that he could still be a waiver-wire trade target. When you're in your first walk year, and you're struggling to find the consistent plate stroke even with run production like his, you might be too stubborn or proud to admit it but being a trade target can get into your head. You might fear a trade could compromise your coming market value. You might fear a trade to a team where you might not be as comfortable as you are with your incumbent. (It's no secret that Harper has loved playing for the Nationals.) You might fear, too, that if you wanted to re-sign with your incumbent team and they deal you with the full intention of trying to bring you back after the season, that they might not be able to get the deal done.

Ponder, too, something to which I alluded in another essay---Jayson Werth's absence. Harper came aboard around the same time Werth did and he's spoken often about how valuable Werth was to him, the kind of veteran who took him under wing and let him pick his brain about just about anything to do with the game. There may be a lot of Nats missing Werth's influence since his deal expired and he opted for retirement at last. I remember a lot of people thinking the Nats were stark raving mad signing Werth to that deal they gave him, but it turned out Werth was far more valuable than just what he did at the plate or in the field.

Werth reminded me of Dave Parker in one way. After Parker cleaned himself up from his earlier drug issues, he became a huge clubhouse presence as well as what he could do at the plate. On those Oakland teams of the late 1980s Parker was invaluable as a clubhouse leader and enforcer. The classic example: When Parker arrived, Jose Canseco was a big pain in the ass and Parker let it be known he'd all but clean and stuff and mount Canseco if he said one word other than hello, figuratively speaking. Canseco kept his big mouth shut for the most part in 1989 and the A's went on to win their only World Series with that group. Then, general manager Sandy Alderson decided he couldn't afford to re-sign Parker. The A's lost their second Series in three years as a result (though Tony La Russa's refusal to ask Dennis Eckersley to work more than a single inning when at least two of the Series games were close or the A's had a late lead had a big hand in that, too) and you wondered whether Alderson wasn't being penny wise and pound foolish in letting his best clubhouse enforcer walk.

It was Werth, too, who stared down hapless manager Matt Williams in mid-2015 and demanded, "When do you think you really lost this team?" (Essentially, Williams lost the team in the 2014 division series, beginning with hooking Jordan Zimmermann when the kid was an out away from a Game Two shutout, but his stubborn refusal to adapt his game management to the game situation and his inability to keep clean communication with his players really hurt the team in 2015.)
« Last Edit: August 02, 2018, 07:06:37 pm by EasyAce »


"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

Fake news---news you don't like or don't want to hear.