Los Angeles plans to install the world’s largest storage battery that can deliver over 100 megawatt

[rangerrebew]

Los Angeles plans to install the world’s largest storage battery that can deliver over 100 megawatts of power an hour for 4 hours

Monday, July 30, 2018 by: Tracey Watson   
 

(Natural News) Until just a few decades ago, “sustainability” was a term that was hardly ever used. When humans needed a new resource they simply searched for it, found a way to extract it, and then implemented its use. In recent years, however, there has been more and more emphasis placed on the sustainable use of our planet’s limited resources. At the same time, the populations of most major cities have exploded, increasing demand for the very resources we need to conserve. One of the greatest increases in demand has been felt in the energy sector.

The race is on to find sustainable – and affordable – solutions that will satisfy this increased demand, while successfully conserving limited resources. The most readily available eco-friendly solutions like wind and solar energy are unreliable, however, since their availability is determined by environmental factors that cannot be controlled.

https://www.naturalnews.com/2018-07-30-los-angeles-plans-to-install-the-worlds-largest-storage-battery.html

[rangerrebew]

Do they plan to finance it with the revenue from plastic straw fines?

[Elderberry]

More than 18,000 lithium ion battery packs would replace a gas-fired power plant used to meet peak demand

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/world-s-largest-storage-battery-will-power-los-angeles/

[Elderberry]

List of energy storage projects: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_energy_storage_projects

[truth_seeker]

Around 40 years ago, I heard about a technology to use the oceans' thermal gradient, to generate electricity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_thermal_energy_conversion

[Suppressed]

Around 40 years ago, I heard about a technology to use the oceans' thermal gradient, to generate electricity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_thermal_energy_conversion

@truth_seeker

Did you hear the All-Hypnotic Chant
about the Ocean Thermal Gradient Hydraulic Power Plant?
(apologies to Bob Bates)

[Elderberry]

Don't forget the Tidal Energy Converters: http://www.eel-energy.fr/en/eel-tidal-energy-convertor/

[Sanguine]

How environmentally responsible are giant batteries? 

[thackney]

Around 40 years ago, I heard about a technology to use the oceans' thermal gradient, to generate electricity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_thermal_energy_conversion

35 years ago, I went to the State Science Fair with my OTEC model.  I had destroyed three versions before that, including melting one down in the science class and embedding pieces of another in wall of my parents basement.

[thackney]

How environmentally responsible are giant batteries?

Depends if you use coal fired power to charge them.

[Elderberry]

How environmentally responsible are giant batteries?

Lithium mining carries high environmental costs. Mining companies prospecting lithium in northern Tibet, salt plains of South America, and Chile as well as lithium at Bolivia's Salar De Uyuni require extensive extraction operations and water in a dry land.

http://www.lithiummine.com/lithium-mining-and-environmental-impact

The extraction of nickel, mainly mined in Australia, Canada, Indonesia, Russia and the Philippines, comes with environmental and health costs

https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/aug/24/nickel-mining-hidden-environmental-cost-electric-cars-batteries

[thackney]

PG&E applies to build Tesla’s largest battery farm yet in Silicon Valley
https://www.digitaltrends.com/home/teslas-largest-battery-farm-california/
7.4.18

Tesla’s largest-ever Powerpack installation may be coming to Northern California. Pacific Gas and Electric Company (PG&E) applied to the California Public Utilities Commission (CPUC) for approval for a utility-owned 182.5 MW energy storage farm using Tesla Powerpacks at the company’s energy storage site in Moss Landing.

PG&E also sought approval for three third-party owned energy storage projects. One of the third-party projects will have a larger initial capacity than the Tesla project. The Tesla project, however, would have an expansion capacity of 1.1 GW.

The storage projects’ purpose is to help keep electrical power levels even for PG&E customers. The storage facilities would feed power to the grid when consumption exceeds normal levels and during blackouts or other service interruptions.

The three additional projects and their respective storage capacities are Dynegy Marketing and Trade, LLC, 300 MWh; Hummingbird Energy Storage, 75 MW; and Micronoc Inc., 10 MW....

[truth_seeker]

35 years ago, I went to the State Science Fair with my OTEC model.  I had destroyed three versions before that, including melting one down in the science class and embedding pieces of another in wall of my parents basement.

I'm a business major, not STEM, but I seem to recall Ocean thermal gradient and Wind, are derived from the abundant sun's energy.

Capturing, Converting, storing, perhaps moving it (and obviously paying for the mess)are the challenges. Correct? 

[thackney]

I'm a business major, not STEM, but I seem to recall Ocean thermal gradient and Wind, are derived from the abundant sun's energy.

Capturing, Converting, storing, perhaps moving it (and obviously paying for the mess)are the challenges. Correct?

Capturing was difficult in that the thermal engine does not have much gradient.  The heat source (surface water) is not a great difference in temperature than the heat sink (colder, deeper water)  The volume is huge so there is a lot to work with. 

Converting is just a turbine heat engine using a lower temp working fluid.  Not difficult or overly expensive, just too small a delta to get much efficiency.

No need to store, just underwater cables to shore.  And day to night has no essential swing so it runs 24/7.

It is expensive due to the need to locate in deep water relatively close to shore but withstand offshore storms.



https://www.makai.com/ocean-thermal-energy-conversion/

[Sanguine]

Lithium mining carries high environmental costs. Mining companies prospecting lithium in northern Tibet, salt plains of South America, and Chile as well as lithium at Bolivia's Salar De Uyuni require extensive extraction operations and water in a dry land.

http://www.lithiummine.com/lithium-mining-and-environmental-impact

The extraction of nickel, mainly mined in Australia, Canada, Indonesia, Russia and the Philippines, comes with environmental and health costs

https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/aug/24/nickel-mining-hidden-environmental-cost-electric-cars-batteries

Exactly, thanks.

[Ghost Bear]

Giant banks of lithium batteries?

As if California didn't have enough fires to worry about. 

[IsailedawayfromFR]

I wonder how small the dam would be to create a lake that would accomplish the same thing, the storage of energy?

[Suppressed]

I wonder how small the dam would be to create a lake that would accomplish the same thing, the storage of energy?

Storage isn't the only parameter.  Battery storage can respond within a fraction of a second.  Dams can't.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Storage isn't the only parameter.  Battery storage can respond within a fraction of a second.  Dams can't.

That may be useful in some cases, but maybe not most.

It would still be a nice comparison to determine the relative costs between providing the same amount of energy storage between the two as a financial exercise, something the wind/solar/biofuels crowd rarely would do.

[thackney]

That may be useful in some cases, but maybe not most.

It is a huge benefit when trying to keep the grid stable and frequency up when another power generation plant trips off line unexpectedly, or a major transmission line is tripped out due to fault/lightning.

It would still be a nice comparison to determine the relative costs between providing the same amount of energy storage between the two as a financial exercise, something the wind/solar/biofuels crowd rarely would do.

Pumped hydro boasts a very low price per megawatt hour, ranging from about $200/MWh to $260/MWh. Currently, battery costs range from $350/MWh to nearly $1000/MWh, with this cost reducing rapidly (costs reduced by about 25% during 2016).

https://reneweconomy.com.au/batteries-vs-pumped-storage-hydropower-place-87554/

Also to consider: Pumped storage typically takes 4~5 years as a minimum to implement.  Battery systems take less than a year.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

It is a huge benefit when trying to keep the grid stable and frequency up when another power generation plant trips off line unexpectedly, or a major transmission line is tripped out due to fault/lightning.

Pumped hydro boasts a very low price per megawatt hour, ranging from about $200/MWh to $260/MWh. Currently, battery costs range from $350/MWh to nearly $1000/MWh, with this cost reducing rapidly (costs reduced by about 25% during 2016).

https://reneweconomy.com.au/batteries-vs-pumped-storage-hydropower-place-87554/

Also to consider: Pumped storage typically takes 4~5 years as a minimum to implement.  Battery systems take less than a year.

Rationale assessments.

On the flip side, let's not forget the side benefits of pumped storage as well.  Things like more fresh water, recreation and maybe flood control.