Author Topic: White House: North Korea presents 'unusual and extraordinary threat'  (Read 2533 times)

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Offline RoosGirl

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Re: White House: North Korea presents 'unusual and extraordinary threat'
« Reply #25 on: June 22, 2018, 10:48:42 pm »
 *****rollingeyes*****

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: White House: North Korea presents 'unusual and extraordinary threat'
« Reply #26 on: June 22, 2018, 11:22:53 pm »
Now that shows the deep stupidity of NTs
Thanx everybody should watch it.

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: White House: North Korea presents 'unusual and extraordinary threat'
« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2018, 06:33:18 pm »

Whether people care to admit it or not, his tweets aren't just throwaway statements, like when he was a private citizen.  They're record....

What does it matter if "they're record?"  That's just a fancy way of saying "yup -- he said it", which isn't in dispute.  So again...what actual substantive difference does it make if those statements are "record"?

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and in some cases, policy.

But not in this case.  We have withdrawn no troops, and ended no sanctions.  In fact, the entire point of this article was to point out that every single sanction remains in place.  So in terms of actual policy, nothing of substance has changed.

Quote
If credibility and the loss of it aren't important, that's fine - just say so.

Sure they are.  But the reality is that this has absolutely nothing to do with credibility.  Anyone being remotely honest with themselves understands that this was just diplomatic posturing. It's like saying your mother in law's pork chops were delicious when they were dry and tough as hell.  People understand that judging your overall credibility because you said something nice in public so as not to create a scene would be foolish. 

The same applies to Trump here -- except among those who who wait with baited breath for anything to criticize.

In any case, the mistake you are making here is the same most American diplomats, foreign policy experts, and politicians have been making for decades.  You are judging negotiations by the process -- how well each little bit of back and forth plays in isolation on the evening news, what sound bites can be isolated and criticized, etc..  When the only thing that really matters is what happens at the end of the process -- actually achieving a deal that puts you in a better position than you were.

Offline edpc

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Re: White House: North Korea presents 'unusual and extraordinary threat'
« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2018, 06:52:24 pm »
What does it matter if "they're record?"  That's just a fancy way of saying "yup -- he said it", which isn't in dispute.  So again...what actual substantive difference does it make if those statements are "record"?

But not in this case.  We have withdrawn no troops, and ended no sanctions.  In fact, the entire point of this article was to point out that every single sanction remains in place.  So in terms of actual policy, nothing of substance has changed.

Sure they are.  But the reality is that this has absolutely nothing to do with credibility.  Anyone being remotely honest with themselves understands that this was just diplomatic posturing. It's like saying your mother in law's pork chops were delicious when they were dry and tough as hell.  People understand that judging your overall credibility because you said something nice in public so as not to create a scene would be foolish. 

The same applies to Trump here -- except among those who who wait with baited breath for anything to criticize.

In any case, the mistake you are making here is the same most American diplomats, foreign policy experts, and politicians have been making for decades.  You are judging negotiations by the process -- how well each little bit of back and forth plays in isolation on the evening news, what sound bites can be isolated and criticized, etc..  When the only thing that really matters is what happens at the end of the process -- actually achieving a deal that puts you in a better position than you were.


The first and last points have to do with credibility.  That's what the record will show later.  Now, as to the diplomacy of it all, there's only so far he had to go with it and maintain the credibility.  You can say you had a good meeting, looked the man in the eye, believed he's sincere, and look forward to the day when everything is signed, sealed, and delivered.  That's good and honest, but a long way from saying they are no longer a threat, when everyone knows damn well they are, while those nukes exist.  It didn't need to be said to advance the process.  It's also a legacy killer, if things fall apart.  That tweet will be right next to Chamberlain waving his letter and Albright clinking her glass, if things don't work out.  As far as policy goes, we did make concessions.  It's long been policy to have joint drills to maintain readiness.  That's now on indefinite hold.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline RoosGirl

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Re: White House: North Korea presents 'unusual and extraordinary threat'
« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2018, 07:21:56 pm »

The first and last points have to do with credibility.  That's what the record will show later.  Now, as to the diplomacy of it all, there's only so far he had to go with it and maintain the credibility.  You can say you had a good meeting, looked the man in the eye, believed he's sincere, and look forward to the day when everything is signed, sealed, and delivered.  That's good and honest, but a long way from saying they are no longer a threat, when everyone knows damn well they are, while those nukes exist.  It didn't need to be said to advance the process.  It's also a legacy killer, if things fall apart.  That tweet will be right next to Chamberlain waving his letter and Albright clinking her glass, if things don't work out.  As far as policy goes, we did make concessions.  It's long been policy to have joint drills to maintain readiness.  That's now on indefinite hold.

And the truth is that if it were Obama in place of Trump, the same people that are saying that Tweet is no big deal would be screeching that O was a complete idiot.

Offline WingNot

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Re: White House: North Korea presents 'unusual and extraordinary threat'
« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2018, 07:35:41 pm »
And the truth is that if it were Obama in place of Trump, the same people that are saying that Tweet is no big deal would be screeching that O was a complete idiot.

To even fathom that one Barack H Obama would have been in NOKO, one would have to be willing to engage in the suspension of disbelief and sacrifice realism and logic for the sake of enjoyment.
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Offline skeeter

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Re: White House: North Korea presents 'unusual and extraordinary threat'
« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2018, 07:45:22 pm »
And the truth is that if it were Obama in place of Trump, the same people that are saying that Tweet is no big deal would be screeching that O was a complete idiot.

Probably so.

Because Obama was an America hating lying sack of sh*t Maoist.

Offline RoosGirl

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Re: White House: North Korea presents 'unusual and extraordinary threat'
« Reply #32 on: June 23, 2018, 08:46:03 pm »
To even fathom that one Barack H Obama would have been in NOKO, one would have to be willing to engage in the suspension of disbelief and sacrifice realism and logic for the sake of enjoyment.

Yes, but I also don't have patience for the double standards.

Offline TomSea

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Re: White House: North Korea presents 'unusual and extraordinary threat'
« Reply #33 on: June 23, 2018, 09:43:00 pm »
As long as they are a threat, sanctions are continued.

Offline RoosGirl

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Re: White House: North Korea presents 'unusual and extraordinary threat'
« Reply #34 on: June 23, 2018, 09:45:15 pm »
As long as they are a threat, sanctions are continued.

What threat?  Trump already told us they were no longer a Nuclear Threat.

Offline TomSea

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Re: White House: North Korea presents 'unusual and extraordinary threat'
« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2018, 10:16:06 pm »
Yes.  The CONTEXT of what Trump tweeted after his "historic" 'Main Event" with himself in the center ring was:

NORTH KOREA NO LONGER A NUCLEAR THREAT



Because Conservatives who still have principles they have not discarded for a cult of personality do not grade intentions and emotional pap, as demanded.  We grade RESULTS.

But not liberals.  And not Trump populists.  Together they grade style over substance, intentions over actual achievements.

It's all about the show and the feeling that the show can generate to create a myth and lie.

You aren't in foreign policy, if we get peace with North Korea, you have NOTHING to do with it. Nothing was ever said about lifting sanctions, you mix the two so you can act sanctimonious. ISIS is defeated for the most part, those on the sidelines did NOTHING against evil.

Offline TomSea

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Re: White House: North Korea presents 'unusual and extraordinary threat'
« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2018, 10:31:42 pm »
COMMUNIQUE, That's what was agreed on, North Korea denucleaiizes.

SANCTIONS, We continue Sanctions to try to enforce denuclearization.

People play word games, they've got to do it, because if ISIS is defeated, if North Korea denuclearizes, they had nothing to do with it.

Offline INVAR

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Re: White House: North Korea presents 'unusual and extraordinary threat'
« Reply #37 on: June 23, 2018, 11:09:44 pm »
You aren't in foreign policy, if we get peace with North Korea, you have NOTHING to do with it. Nothing was ever said about lifting sanctions, you mix the two so you can act sanctimonious. ISIS is defeated for the most part, those on the sidelines did NOTHING against evil.

You can shove your sentiments where the sun doesn't shine given your proclivity to accuse us of supporting child molesters and ISIS because we do not bow before Trump to your satisfaction.  You are a disgrace to this board.
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Offline corbe

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Re: White House: North Korea presents 'unusual and extraordinary threat'
« Reply #38 on: June 24, 2018, 12:37:41 am »
   Reading this Thread gave me images of British General Marshall Montgomery assuring Eisenhower that his Operation Market Garden would be a smashing success.
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Offline INVAR

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Re: White House: North Korea presents 'unusual and extraordinary threat'
« Reply #39 on: June 24, 2018, 01:11:14 am »
   Reading this Thread gave me images of British General Marshall Montgomery assuring Eisenhower that his Operation Market Garden would be a smashing success.

Well, following the ForeverTrump® Logic - how can you expect anything to work unless you first try - and maybe try again?

Who cares what the facts are!

Faith in Trump is all that we need to win and achieve world peace!
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775