'When has it ever become legal to shoot someone because they’re pulling off in your car?'

[thackney]

'When has it ever become legal to shoot someone because they’re pulling off in your car?'
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-concealed-carry-shooting-victim-20180523-story.html

...Her younger brother, 17-year-old Charles Macklin, was killed while trying to steal a Jeep from a Chicago fire lieutenant on the West Side last August. The lieutenant had left the Jeep running, and Macklin jumped behind the wheel.

The lieutenant ran in front of the Jeep and shouted, “Get out,” according to a police report. When Macklin began pulling away, the lieutenant drew his gun and fired through the open driver’s side window, hitting the teen in the chest.

Macklin’s last words were, “Sorry, bro,” according to the police report. The teen died on the pavement. He did not have a gun on him.

The lieutenant had a concealed carry license. He was not charged and he was not disciplined by the department, according to spokesman Larry Langford.

“That was investigated by us, and we found no violation of any rules,” Langford said. “The police didn’t arrest, the state’s attorney found no reason to charge. There was no wrongdoing as far as the Fire Department is concerned.”...

[thackney]

https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/off-duty-chicago-fire-department-lieutenant-fatally-shoots-carjacker/

...The lieutenant fired his weapon at the teen, who was trying to run him over with the vehicle, authorities said.

The boy, identified as 17-year-old Charles K. Macklin who lived in the same neighborhood, was shot in the chest and taken to West Suburban Medical Center in Oak Park, where he was pronounced dead at 9:33 a.m., police and the Cook County medical examiner’s office said....

[driftdiver]

I have found that avoiding breaking into peoples houses or stealing their cars greatly reduces the chance of getting shot.

[INVAR]

Well, in Chicago it is legal to shoot someone sitting on their front porch if it's a drive-by and the perp is the right color.

But, let's just say what we are all actually thinking here: play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Maybe such instances will cause the feral among us to rethink their entitlement to our property and well-being.

[Elderberry]

I don't know about Chicago. In Texas its expected.

Texas A&M Professor Mark Hoekstra, who studies the effectiveness of lethal-force provisions in self-defense law, says the protection-of-property element of the deadly force law is “pretty unique to Texas.” Within Texas, however, the case was not unique. In 2010, the law protected a Houston taco-truck owner who shot a man for stealing a tip jar containing $20.12. Also in Houston, a store clerk recently killed a man for shoplifting a twelve-pack of beer, and in 2008 a man from Laredo was acquitted for killing a 13-year-old boy who broke into his trailer looking for snacks and soda.

Texas law also justifies killing to protect others’ property. In 2007, a man told 14 times by a 911 operator to remain inside during a robbery gunned down two thieves fleeing from his neighbor’s house. (“There’s no property worth shooting somebody over, OK?” the operator said on the call. The shooter’s response: “The law has been changed….Here it goes, buddy! You hear the shotgun clickin’ and I’m goin’!”) He was acquitted the next year.

[Cyber Liberty]

Depends on the State.  This case is IL, so probably illegal.  In AZ it would be TFB, as it is in TX.

[thackney]

I have found that avoiding breaking into peoples houses or stealing their cars greatly reduces the chance of getting shot.

Not to mention the attempted homicide in trying to run him over.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

The tragedy here is that the family of the person killed is not accepting any responsibility for the dead person's behavior, and is casting him as a victim instead.

Bad actions have consequences.

[thackney]

Depends on the State.  This case is IL, so probably illegal.  In AZ it would be TFB, as it is in TX.

https://kostlaw.com/can-stand-ground-illinois/

Illinois justifiable force provisions can be found in 720 ILCS 5/7. In Illinois, you may use justifiable force:

To defend yourself or another person;
To protect your dwelling; or
To protect your property.

[INVAR]

The tragedy here is that the family of the person killed is not accepting any responsibility for the dead person's behavior, and is casting him as a victim instead.

Bad actions have consequences.

You mean like with Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown and the fun we all had watching Ferguson?

[Frank Cannon]

“When has it ever become legal to shoot someone because they’re pulling off in your car?” she asked. “Even if (Macklin) did that, if he did steal the car. You’ve got insurance — let him go to jail. I would’ve rather had to get a call to go bail him out of jail than to get a phone call that he’s dead.”

Why are we debating what the sister of some seriously stupid person has to say?

[thackney]

“When has it ever become legal to shoot someone because they’re pulling off in your car?” she asked. “Even if (Macklin) did that, if he did steal the car. You’ve got insurance — let him go to jail. I would’ve rather had to get a call to go bail him out of jail than to get a phone call that he’s dead.”

Why are we debating what the sister of some seriously stupid person has to say?

Because an amazing number of folks will agree with her.

[Applewood]

The tragedy here is that the family of the person killed is not accepting any responsibility for the dead person's behavior, and is casting him as a victim instead.

Bad actions have consequences.

In Pittsburgh the story is usually that the perp was a bright kid, always smiling, an aspiring rapper and he was turning his life around.  Oh, and he was only 17 and a loving baby daddy to his 2 kids (by 2 different girls of course). 

[Frank Cannon]

Because an amazing number of folks will agree with her.

Only Commies, gang bangers and their enablers.

[driftdiver]

Only Commies, gang bangers and their enablers.

Which make up about 50% of this country

[edpc]

David Lombardo, a concealed carry instructor who said he has trained more than 7,000 people to get state licenses, said he would let an armed carjacker take his car.

“You want my car? You can have it and I’ll hand over a (credit) card for gas, too," he said. "I’m not going to defend a car with a gun, that’s what insurance is for. I’ll get a better one.”


This man is an idiot.  My mother walked out into the lot, after working the 11PM - 7AM shift and her car (less than 2 years old) was gone.  After a couple weeks, the insurance company offered the settlement, which was thousands less than they owed.  Naturally, my parents were still responsible for the balance to the finance company.  It's not like they were so well off they could just go get a 'better' car at the dealer and shrug it off.

[driftdiver]

David Lombardo, a concealed carry instructor who said he has trained more than 7,000 people to get state licenses, said he would let an armed carjacker take his car.

“You want my car? You can have it and I’ll hand over a (credit) card for gas, too," he said. "I’m not going to defend a car with a gun, that’s what insurance is for. I’ll get a better one.”


This man is an idiot.  My mother walked out into the lot, after working the 11PM - 7AM shift and her car (less than 2 years old) was gone.  After a couple weeks, the insurance company offered the settlement, which was thousands less than they owed.  Naturally, my parents were still responsible for the balance to the finance company.  It's not like they were so well off they could just go get a 'better' car at the dealer and shrug it off.

I think the point that physical possessions are not worth losing your life for.   A couple grand wouldn't go far in lawyer fees.

but yes insurance companies suck.    My last claim involved lightning, melted wiring, a small fire, and a bunch of blown electrical items prompted this from my insurance company "homeowners insurance is for the big things".

[thackney]

Only Commies, gang bangers and their enablers.

That last group may be 20~30% of the general population.

[mountaineer]

Meanwhile, in St. Louis, a teen murdered a woman who was getting her kids to school because he wanted to steal her car. The woman, a security officer, had a gun but was unable to get to it. She was slain in front of her two young children.

'Both sides are traumatized': Family of man accused of murdering woman in front of kids speaks out
osted: Jun 11, 2018 12:09 PM EDT
Updated: Jun 14, 2018 7:55 AM EDT
By Rachel Sudduth, Online News Producer


ST. LOUIS COUNTY (KMOV.com) – An 18-year-old is facing charges after a 28-year-old school safety officer was shot and killed in front of her children Monday.

Around 7:15 a.m. Monday, police were called to the 10200 block of Lord for a shooting. When officers arrived, Porsha Owens was found with at least one gunshot wound. She was transported to a local hospital in critical condition but later died of her injuries.

Wednesday, prosecutors charged Mark Haywood with second-degree murder, first-degree robbery and two counts of armed criminal action in relation to Owens’ death.

The probable cause statement said Owens was with her three children when Haywood came from behind the car and announced a robbery, then shot her. Police said Haywood ran from the scene after taking Owens' property.

The suspect admitted to the crime, according to court documents.

Family members said police came to their house to question Haywood on Tuesday and found Owens' purse in the house.

“Our family, we wouldn’t condone nobody killing nobody,” one of Haywood's family members told News 4. ...

More at KMOV

[mountaineer]

Sorry, but this case really gets to me (a former St. Louis County resident):

... Mark Haywood shot 28-year-old Porsha Owens on Monday morning during an attempted carjacking outside her home in the Castle Point neighborhood of north county, authorities say. It happened minutes after 7 a.m. as the young mother was trying to load her three kids, ages three to eight, into her car. She was in her uniform from Riverview Gardens School District, preparing to head to work.

St. Louis County Prosecuting Attorney Robert McCulloch said Haywood fired twice and hit Owens once, stealing her gun, keys and purse off her once she was down. The children watched her bleeding to death in the street.  ...

Owens' grandmother, Fannie King, told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch that Owens' eight-year-old son ushered his younger siblings under the car to hide while he ran to find a police officer.

The mortally wounded mother didn't die right away. She staggered across the street followed by her kids before collapsing, McCulloch said. Haywood ultimately ran off, authorities say.

He lived little more than a block away at 10327 Monarch Drive. Owens and her kids had just moved in a few days before. Investigators believe Haywood spotted his neighbor's car, a white Dodge Charger, and made plans to steal it.  ...

Riverfront Times

[Millee]

I have found that avoiding breaking into peoples houses or stealing their cars greatly reduces the chance of getting shot.

Well aren't you a radical!

[edpc]

I think the point that physical possessions are not worth losing your life for.   A couple grand wouldn't go far in lawyer fees.

It depends.  In my case, I do most of my work in a company vehicle.  They could get me a new one tomorrow and write the other off.  There are some in the organization, however, that use POVs and receive a car allowance.  In that instance, I wouldn't have the same options as the corporation.  That vehicle is my livelihood as a field employee.  In KS, I'd be within my rights to use deadly force to defend property.

[goatprairie]

Because an amazing number of folks will agree with her.

There was a story in the news about one year ago about a bank robber who got shot and killed by a customer with a concealed carry permit at some bank down south.
The family of the dead perp were unduly upset about their dear, loved one being shot and killed because it wasn't the concealed carry customer's money being stolen....it was the bank's.....why should the concealed carry customer care?
By the way, the perp had his gun out pointed at the bank workers.  Who knows if on receipt of the swag he wouldn't have started blasting away.
But the concealed carry customer who stopped an armed robbery is a villain in their eyes. And their dear, beloved bank robbing  son is (sob) A VICTIM!!!

[driftdiver]

It depends.  In my case, I do most of my work in a company vehicle.  They could get me a new one tomorrow and write the other off.  There are some in the organization, however, that use POVs and receive a car allowance.  In that instance, I wouldn't have the same options as the corporation.  That vehicle is my livelihood as a field employee.  In KS, I'd be within my rights to use deadly force to defend property.

@edpc
Its something that depends on individual circumstances.   I don't have a problem with thieves paying a price for their actions.   I am just not in a hurry to take a life or spend a lot of money on lawyers.  hate lawyers almost as much as thieves. 

[dfwgator]

I notice they posted the dead perp's picture....