Author Topic: New York Time: Democrats and NeverTrumpers “Quietly Align” to Meet, Scheme Ways of Defeating Republi  (Read 8941 times)

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Offline Emjay

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   I did read @Mesaclone's post @Emjay and it is a very interesting, enlightening viewpoint as I have come to expect from him.    Below is another very popular person in American Culture (right now), who also means jack $hit to me. /JS



I'm really starting to hate pictures.  Why don't you people just buy a copy of Penthouse?  Does Penthouse still exist or do people get enough semi-porn girls on the net?

Anyway, what do you mean about opposing populism in the electorate.  I really want to know.
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Online corbe

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I won't cuff you, but you need to explain what you mean when you say you oppose Populism in the Electorate.

   Simply @Emjay telling anyone what they want to hear even if they are diametrically opposed to whatever principles you may/may not hold just to win votes, a personality trait inherent in most all Politicians.   
   William Jennings Bryan and the Kingfish, Huey P Long quickly come to my mind.
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Offline Sanguine

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   Simply @Emjay telling anyone what they want to hear even if they are diametrically opposed to whatever principles you may/may not hold just to win votes, a personality trait inherent in most all Politicians.   
   William Jennings Bryan and the Kingfish, Huey P Long quickly come to my mind.

Yep, populism, as you've pointed out with that kardashian photo, is simply acting upon the will of the population.   Things like the French Revolution vs. the American Revolution.  The French one was based on populism, expressed by guillotine, and the American one was expressed by an agreed upon union based upon law as written in the Constitution.

Offline Emjay

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   Simply @Emjay telling anyone what they want to hear even if they are diametrically opposed to whatever principles you may/may not hold just to win votes, a personality trait inherent in most all Politicians.   
   William Jennings Bryan and the Kingfish, Huey P Long quickly come to my mind.

That's not what I understand by the term Populism, @corbe.  And who are you to judge the motives of people until they are elected and act?  So far, Trump has acted most of the time in the way he campaigned.  He is still bombastic and over the top, but he has done, or attempted to do, much of what he promised.
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Online corbe

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   @Emjay, I am not judging the motives of the 'typical' Trump voter I saw the same thing they did we just reached a different solution to the same problem IN THE PRIMARY'S, hellary was never the answer to be considered once we reached the General.

   If Trump runs for reelection and has a chance of losing Texas's 38 electoral votes to a dem I will crawl across cut glass to deliver him my vote, otherwise I will vote my conscience as instructed by my Lover~Ted Cruz.
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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bleep david frum. Hes a liberal. Check out his twitter. Writes for the atlantic.

Offline Emjay

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   @Emjay, I am not judging the motives of the 'typical' Trump voter I saw the same thing they did we just reached a different solution to the same problem IN THE PRIMARY'S, hellary was never the answer to be considered once we reached the General.

   If Trump runs for reelection and has a chance of losing Texas's 38 electoral votes to a dem I will crawl across cut glass to deliver him my vote, otherwise I will vote my conscience as instructed by my Lover~Ted Cruz.

I want Ted Cruz as well.  It would be a dream come true to have him as President.  But he won't run in 2020 if Trump decides to run and I think he will. 

The democrats are desperate and throwing eggs at the basket like crazy.  We needed to keep them in check for until 2024 at least because we need to put Obama and Hillary and all the bad guys in our rear view mirror.
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Offline Chosen Daughter

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That's not what I understand by the term Populism, @corbe.  And who are you to judge the motives of people until they are elected and act?  So far, Trump has acted most of the time in the way he campaigned.  He is still bombastic and over the top, but he has done, or attempted to do, much of what he promised.

No he hasn't.  The two main things that fired up crowds at his rallies were "Lock Her Up!" and "Build The Wall!" of which neither have gone anywhere.

Trump made his intentions obvious on day one when his family was seated with the Clintons and Trump honored the Clintons presence at the Inauguration lunch.  The second is obvious, no wall.  The last I heard they want people to fund it.

He moved the Embassy but it was a religious promise to the Evangelical Zionists who have a end time agenda.  I left the Evangelical Church for its phony prophetic idea's about Trump.  Modern day King Cyrus who will bring about the building of the Third Temple.  What a shame we won't be telling any Jews that Blessing them means telling them their God gave His only Son.  The blessing, the seed.

http://www.news.com.au/world/middle-eastern-prophecy-is-trump-a-reincarnated-king-cyrus-destined-to-herald-the-end-of-days/news-story/8fce69eacebd929b482ee00c895f37dc
AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

Offline aligncare

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I want Ted Cruz as well.  It would be a dream come true to have him as President.  But he won't run in 2020 if Trump decides to run and I think he will. 

The democrats are desperate and throwing eggs at the basket like crazy.  We needed to keep them in check for until 2024 at least because we need to put Obama and Hillary and all the bad guys in our rear view mirror.

If the time is not now, then when? Trump has acted as the canary in the coal mine and the toxic deep state has been flushed out. Now’s not the time to go wobbly.

(With apologies to Sir Winston Churchill)

we shall fight on the beaches (of Malibu),
we shall fight on the landing grounds (of JFK),
we shall fight in the fields (of Houston) and in the streets (of Detroit),
we shall fight in the hills (of Hollywood);

...but, damn it, we will fight!

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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No he hasn't.  The two main things that fired up crowds at his rallies were "Lock Her Up!" and "Build The Wall!" of which neither have gone anywhere.

These chants were certainly energizing, but so were "Drain the Swamp" and  "CNN su*ks"  :laugh:  @Chosen Daughter   

The holdup on the wall is coming from congress....which is why there will be a push from the WH to make this a central theme during the midterm campaigns.  As for Hillary, I'm starting to think the best we can hope for is the moment when she is totally exposed for who and what she is---with proof even democrat voters can understand.  I doubt we'll ever see a perp walk.

Quote
He moved the Embassy but it was a religious promise to the Evangelical Zionists who have a end time agenda.  I left the Evangelical Church for its phony prophetic idea's about Trump.  Modern day King Cyrus who will bring about the building of the Third Temple.  What a shame we won't be telling any Jews that Blessing them means telling them their God gave His only Son.  The blessing, the seed.

Interesting ... I'd not heard the second Cyrus stories.  *****rollingeyes*****   

FWIW, I would have preferred less Bible at the opening ceremony in Jerusalem.  Rather, I thought the American speakers would have been promoting "every nation has the right to decide its capitol".   :shrug:

Offline Mesaclone

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   Thank you for that somewhat encouraging Ping @Emjay. If being a Conservative that opposes Populism in the Electorate brands me as a NT'er, I am guilty as Charged, your Honor, cuff me!  (pretty please).....

So, you oppose "support for the concerns of ordinary people" and/or "the quality of appealing to or being aimed at ordinary people."?
That's the dictionary definition...at least two primary definitions.

Then there is this In his book on American populism, The Populist Persuasion, the historian Michael Kazin describes populism as “a language whose speakers conceive of ordinary people as a noble assemblage not bounded narrowly by class; view their elite opponents as self-serving and undemocratic; and seek to mobilise the former against the latter.[/i]”

Kazin states our situation perfectly...the Noble Assemblage of the ordinary people vs a self proclaimed Elite who are self serving and undemocratic. In our current crisis, Populism is simply an uprising of the "ordinary" folks against the oppression of a bureaucratic government structure that is serving and being directed by elites....and those elites are coming from both parties. Layered on top of that, is liberal dominance of those "government structures", a fact that exacerbates the problem but is not its root.

Populism can be mob rule....or...it can be something more necessary, even noble. It is, in our current crisis, a people's way of saying "enough, we will not be ruled by bureau-tyrants any longer".

The "mob" version of populism, which we SHOULD all fear, is what Bernie Sanders was advocating...he would make government massive and synonymous with "the mob", essentially government would become an expression of mob rule. What the President's supporters are demanding is a reformation of the bureaucracy, and a general diminishment of its powers and scope...with a return of power to the local level whenever feasible.

A dose of conservative populism is a good thing Corbe...why would you be against that?

« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 06:41:50 pm by Mesaclone »
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Offline Mesaclone

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No he hasn't.  The two main things that fired up crowds at his rallies were "Lock Her Up!" and "Build The Wall!" of which neither have gone anywhere.

Trump made his intentions obvious on day one when his family was seated with the Clintons and Trump honored the Clintons presence at the Inauguration lunch.  The second is obvious, no wall.  The last I heard they want people to fund it.

He moved the Embassy but it was a religious promise to the Evangelical Zionists who have a end time agenda.  I left the Evangelical Church for its phony prophetic idea's about Trump.  Modern day King Cyrus who will bring about the building of the Third Temple.  What a shame we won't be telling any Jews that Blessing them means telling them their God gave His only Son.  The blessing, the seed.

http://www.news.com.au/world/middle-eastern-prophecy-is-trump-a-reincarnated-king-cyrus-destined-to-herald-the-end-of-days/news-story/8fce69eacebd929b482ee00c895f37dc

Please don't take offense, but you're judging the man in a deeply unfair manner. He doesn't have a magic wand nor can he exercise powers of mind control to force GOP members to vote for his programs.

He cannot make them vote for the wall...but has lobbied relentlessly for them to do so. In fact, he has been clear that he will sign no DACA or other immigration legislation unless it funds the wall. And he will keep that pledge. As for who pays for it...that's an accounting trick and a campaign slogan. He can say all money from tariff fees or border entrance fines is now dedicated to the wall construction...easy peasy. The real point is the man is fighting his ARSE off for the wall...but he can't fart out 51 votes, only the Senate can do that.

As for honoring the Clintons at the inauguration...not doing so would have been cheap and classless. The tone engendered by such a snub at an inaguration would have ruined would is meant to be a time of optimism and of bringing the country together. But it does NOT imply he isn't willing to enforce the law and prosecute IF and WHEN the FBI provides him with sufficient evidence to indict. Even the President must allow due process under the law...he can't simply order agents to go cuff Clinton and drag her in. If he did, he would be painted as a monster and likely impeached within weeks...so what you apparently want him to do is idiocy. Bringing Hillary to Justice will take many years...but the President will do ALL that is legally and ethically possible to apply justice to this woman.

A president is 1/3 of the government...Trump is more than doing his 1/3 on all these issues AND he is fighting via the bully pulpit to achieve his campaign goals. Perhaps if more Repubs were fighting with him, and not sniping about imperfections and looking for motes in his eye, we could achieve far more than we have.

Make no mistake, the man is reshaping the judiciary at all Federal levels...is rebuilding our national defense and the morale of our troops...and is waging war against the deep state. He of course will not acheive all of his goals nor even fulfill all of his promises...no president ever has...but he damn well will fight for these things until his last day in office.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 06:57:43 pm by Mesaclone »
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Offline Chosen Daughter

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These chants were certainly energizing, but so were "Drain the Swamp" and  "CNN su*ks"  :laugh:  @Chosen Daughter   

The holdup on the wall is coming from congress....which is why there will be a push from the WH to make this a central theme during the midterm campaigns.  As for Hillary, I'm starting to think the best we can hope for is the moment when she is totally exposed for who and what she is---with proof even democrat voters can understand.  I doubt we'll ever see a perp walk.

Interesting ... I'd not heard the second Cyrus stories.  *****rollingeyes*****   

FWIW, I would have preferred less Bible at the opening ceremony in Jerusalem.  Rather, I thought the American speakers would have been promoting "every nation has the right to decide its capitol".   :shrug:

The Trumps and Clintons are good friends.  As I said his daughter was seated with them and Trump made a grand announcement of honor for having them there.  People were chanting but Trumps agenda was different than what he said.

What happened in Israel should be an eye opener to Constitutionalists.  Trump is the King Cyrus of Evangelicals.  It should have been an Embassy opening of  "every nation has the right to decide its capitol" but it wasn't.  It was a Hagee and Jeffress prophesy fulfilled operation.  Even though Israel is practically a Sodom and Gomorrah with its most liberal in the world free abortions and gay pride.  I think they need Jesus.  But Israel isn't what people think.  The percentage of Orthodox Jew is very small.  Jewish people are split by secular and mildly Jewish.  So all the God talk and prophesy is stupid.  God blessed His people by sending His son.  And as much as Hagee and Jeffress want to ignore the New Testament Evangelism to the Jews it will not change the Word of God.  They are phonies.

https://www.google.com/search?q=tel+aviv+gay+pride+2018&rlz=1T4AURU_enUS517US518&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiFvu_JiaTbAhWNFjQIHS9nADsQ_AUIDCgD&biw=1088&bih=444

IDF Violates Trump Abortion Order, Should Forfeit  $3.8-Billion Annual U.S. Aid

January 23, 2017 By Richard Silverstein —19 Comments

Pres. Trump reinstated an order barring foreign NGOs from receiving any U.S. foreign assistance if they perform any abortions as part of their service offerings.

Israel has one of the most liberal abortion policies in the world.  Virtually all women may obtain abortions at any point in the pregnancy and the government covers the entire expense. This, in a country whose State religion, Orthodox Judaism, forbids abortion unless the mother’s life is in danger.

Israel’s liberalism on this issue has driven the anti-abortion hard-right a bit crazy, knowing that our government offers such huge amounts of aid to a country

thathttps://www.richardsilverstein.com/2017/01/23/idf-violates-trump-abortion-order-should-forfeit-3-8-billion-annual-u-s-aid/
« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 07:13:37 pm by Chosen Daughter »
AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

Offline Emjay

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No he hasn't.  The two main things that fired up crowds at his rallies were "Lock Her Up!" and "Build The Wall!" of which neither have gone anywhere.

Trump made his intentions obvious on day one when his family was seated with the Clintons and Trump honored the Clintons presence at the Inauguration lunch.  The second is obvious, no wall.  The last I heard they want people to fund it.

He moved the Embassy but it was a religious promise to the Evangelical Zionists who have a end time agenda.  I left the Evangelical Church for its phony prophetic idea's about Trump.  Modern day King Cyrus who will bring about the building of the Third Temple.  What a shame we won't be telling any Jews that Blessing them means telling them their God gave His only Son.  The blessing, the seed.

http://www.news.com.au/world/middle-eastern-prophecy-is-trump-a-reincarnated-king-cyrus-destined-to-herald-the-end-of-days/news-story/8fce69eacebd929b482ee00c895f37dc

Wow @Chosen Daughter  ... well, our Savior was a Jew and you seem to be confused.
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Offline Chosen Daughter

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Wow @Chosen Daughter  ... well, our Savior was a Jew and you seem to be confused.

I am not confused you are.  I know Jesus was a Jew.  He is how to bless Israel.  Not some Third Temple so that Satan can occupy it in 3 1/2 years.  Building a Third Temple isn't what Jesus instructed us to do.  That is for those who will fulfill the antichrist mission.
AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

Offline Chosen Daughter

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Please don't take offense, but you're judging the man in a deeply unfair manner. He doesn't have a magic wand nor can he exercise powers of mind control to force GOP members to vote for his programs.

He cannot make them vote for the wall...but has lobbied relentlessly for them to do so. In fact, he has been clear that he will sign no DACA or other immigration legislation unless it funds the wall. And he will keep that pledge. As for who pays for it...that's an accounting trick and a campaign slogan. He can say all money from tariff fees or border entrance fines is now dedicated to the wall construction...easy peasy. The real point is the man is fighting his ARSE off for the wall...but he can't fart out 51 votes, only the Senate can do that.

As for honoring the Clintons at the inauguration...not doing so would have been cheap and classless. The tone engendered by such a snub at an inaguration would have ruined would is meant to be a time of optimism and of bringing the country together. But it does NOT imply he isn't willing to enforce the law and prosecute IF and WHEN the FBI provides him with sufficient evidence to indict. Even the President must allow due process under the law...he can't simply order agents to go cuff Clinton and drag her in. If he did, he would be painted as a monster and likely impeached within weeks...so what you apparently want him to do is idiocy. Bringing Hillary to Justice will take many years...but the President will do ALL that is legally and ethically possible to apply justice to this woman.

A president is 1/3 of the government...Trump is more than doing his 1/3 on all these issues AND he is fighting via the bully pulpit to achieve his campaign goals. Perhaps if more Repubs were fighting with him, and not sniping about imperfections and looking for motes in his eye, we could achieve far more than we have.

Make no mistake, the man is reshaping the judiciary at all Federal levels...is rebuilding our national defense and the morale of our troops...and is waging war against the deep state. He of course will not acheive all of his goals nor even fulfill all of his promises...no president ever has...but he damn well will fight for these things until his last day in office.

Well he made a declaration about all the immigration bills two days ago.  At best he is saying he won't sign unless there is "real wall" improvements.  We'll see but he said he wouldn't sign the bloated spending bill either but he did.

As for Hillary.  They are friends and I think you know she will never be "locked up".
AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

Online corbe

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So, you oppose "support for the concerns of ordinary people" and/or "the quality of appealing to or being aimed at ordinary people."?
That's the dictionary definition...at least two primary definitions.

Then there is this In his book on American populism, The Populist Persuasion, the historian Michael Kazin describes populism as “a language whose speakers conceive of ordinary people as a noble assemblage not bounded narrowly by class; view their elite opponents as self-serving and undemocratic; and seek to mobilise the former against the latter.[/i]”

Kazin states our situation perfectly...the Noble Assemblage of the ordinary people vs a self proclaimed Elite who are self serving and undemocratic. In our current crisis, Populism is simply an uprising of the "ordinary" folks against the oppression of a bureaucratic government structure that is serving and being directed by elites....and those elites are coming from both parties. Layered on top of that, is liberal dominance of those "government structures", a fact that exacerbates the problem but is not its root.

Populism can be mob rule....or...it can be something more necessary, even noble. It is, in our current crisis, a people's way of saying "enough, we will not be ruled by bureau-tyrants any longer".

The "mob" version of populism, which we SHOULD all fear, is what Bernie Sanders was advocating...he would make government massive and synonymous with "the mob", essentially government would become an expression of mob rule. What the President's supporters are demanding is a reformation of the bureaucracy, and a general diminishment of its powers and scope...with a return of power to the local level whenever feasible.

A dose of conservative populism is a good thing Corbe...why would you be against that?


   @Mesaclone perhaps my idea of Populism is to narrowly defined with my (ill defined) NTism, I would, without provocation, readily admit that.   
   The majority of the people (my entire clan included) saw a major problem with the establishment in Washington DC (as did the Tea party) but being the angry, agitated voters that they were their emotions and lack of patience replaced their logic and reasoning, I get that.     
   My philosophy evolved, as I was forced to thoroughly read up on the Man, after that infamous escalator ride in 2015, I came to believe that being a lifelong member of the NY (dare I say, Liberal) Establishment, he was not the chemo for the cancer that infected this Nation, just another bandaid.
   I may appear, on TBR, to hold grudges against the ET/AT'ers but that is not true.  In my Heart I want the Man to succeed for the Good of the Nation. It is what it is and that old saying about not changing horses in mid stream also makes a hell of a lot of sense to me.


   *Now everyone understands why I rarely dwell beyond a sentence or two.....
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline 240B

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Well he made a declaration about all the immigration bills two days ago.  At best he is saying he won't sign unless there is "real wall" improvements.  We'll see but he said he wouldn't sign the bloated spending bill either but he did.

As for Hillary.  They are friends and I think you know she will never be "locked up".

From the looks of her lately, I doubt she will live long enough to be locked up. She looks half dead already, and she is walking around in some kind of portable cocoon. There is something very wrong with her, physically and mentally.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 08:12:08 pm by 240B »
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists.

Offline Chosen Daughter

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From the looks of her lately, I doubt she will live long enough to be locked up. She half dead already, and she is walking around in some kind of portable cocoon. There is something very wrong with her, physically and mentally.

Really?  Do you have a link?  Perhaps Bill and Hillary should have stayed away from the Voodoo.
AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

Offline roamer_1

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The forces of evil are vast and powerful and the only person with his finger in the dike right now (no lame puns, please) is President Trump.

What bullcrap.
If there is anything I truly hate about Tump and his supporters, it's messianic bullshit like this.

Online corbe

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   @roamer_1 I emphasize

With all due respect to @Emjay, who I am not insinuating anything about, Trump doesn't bother me half as much as some of his fanatical followers, whom I deal with daily, not just here.
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline Mesaclone

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   @Mesaclone perhaps my idea of Populism is to narrowly defined with my (ill defined) NTism, I would, without provocation, readily admit that.   
   The majority of the people (my entire clan included) saw a major problem with the establishment in Washington DC (as did the Tea party) but being the angry, agitated voters that they were their emotions and lack of patience replaced their logic and reasoning, I get that.     
   My philosophy evolved, as I was forced to thoroughly read up on the Man, after that infamous escalator ride in 2015, I came to believe that being a lifelong member of the NY (dare I say, Liberal) Establishment, he was not the chemo for the cancer that infected this Nation, just another bandaid.
   I may appear, on TBR, to hold grudges against the ET/AT'ers but that is not true.  In my Heart I want the Man to succeed for the Good of the Nation. It is what it is and that old saying about not changing horses in mid stream also makes a hell of a lot of sense to me.


   *Now everyone understands why I rarely dwell beyond a sentence or two.....

Well said Corbe, as always. Trust me, most of us on the pro-Trump side have all the concerns and reservations you have regarding the President...concerns about his personal character, his political ethics, his impulsiveness, and his penchant for foot in mouth. But for most of us those concerns are balanced, outweighed rather, by the fact that he gets in the mud pit and just plain fights for everything conservative.

I don’t see you as a NeverTrumper, for the record...and I frankly admire your skepticism and well thought out concerns. But I also see you giving credit where it’s due...for example, with regard to Trumps judicial appointments. That sort of reasoned criticism is diametrically different than the standard NT approach I see here all too often.

Thanks for your excellent reply. I still harbor hopes of converting you into a Trumpian Populist😀!
We have the best government that money can buy. Mark Twain

Offline Emjay

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   @roamer_1 I emphasize

With all due respect to @Emjay, who I am not insinuating anything about, Trump doesn't bother me half as much as some of his fanatical followers, whom I deal with daily, not just here.

@corbe   If it's not too personal, how do you deal with the people you call fanatical Trump followers in what we jokingly refer to as Real Life?
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Offline Emjay

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What bullcrap.
If there is anything I truly hate about Tump and his supporters, it's messianic bullshit like this.

Thank you @roamer_1 for the thoughtful reply. 

For the millionth time, I do not regard Trump as a messiah.  I regard him as the only person right now who is keeping the evil forces out of the White House and out of running the country, as they feel is their due.
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Online corbe

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@corbe   If it's not too personal, how do you deal with the people you call fanatical Trump followers in what we jokingly refer to as Real Life?

   I deal with Trumpers in my real life, Family included, as I do here, @Emjay, with respect and a lot of 'shaking my head'.
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.