Author Topic: Federal Judge Orders Complete Restart Of DACA  (Read 7842 times)

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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Federal Judge Orders Complete Restart Of DACA
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2018, 10:24:48 pm »
This was a federal judge.

In the past, jurisprudential concerns have meant that most federal judges wouldn't issue a nationwide order, though technically, they have the power.  Now, they're just getting so overtly political that they don't care if they screw up the balance of powers.

The GOP should pass a bill limiting the ability of district court judges to issue injunctive relief against the federal government outside of their state or district.  It would be perfectly constitutional, and would at least partially solve the problem of runaway district court judges trying to set national policy.
Care to inform us where in our laws where you believe that power was given them?
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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Federal Judge Orders Complete Restart Of DACA
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2018, 10:27:54 pm »
Surprise surprise. Look who appointed Judge Masturbates.....

John Deacon Bates (born October 11, 1946), is a Senior United States District Judge of the United States District Court for the District of Columbia. He was appointed by President George W. Bush in December 2001, and has adjudicated in several cases directly affecting the office of the President.
And who do you think he looks like?  Hint: it rhymes with Roto-Rooter and was also nominated by George HW

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Offline libertybele

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Re: Federal Judge Orders Complete Restart Of DACA
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2018, 10:34:34 pm »
Mark Levin EXPLODES after a federal judge rules that Trump must keep DACA.

https://www.conservativereview.com/articles/levin-judicial-tyranny-youre-viewing-now/
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Offline XenaLee

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Re: Federal Judge Orders Complete Restart Of DACA
« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2018, 10:50:49 pm »
I like to point fingers of blame towards people I don't like.

Me too.  But...even tho I no longer like GWB,.... the fact remains.... he had no idea how his nominees would turn out.
No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

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Offline darroll

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Re: Federal Judge Orders Complete Restart Of DACA
« Reply #29 on: April 26, 2018, 12:19:02 am »
These people are not judges, just an extended wing of the dnc.

Online Free Vulcan

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Re: Federal Judge Orders Complete Restart Of DACA
« Reply #30 on: April 26, 2018, 01:53:55 am »
When Obama was Prez, the Federal court oversees Texas ruled against the Obama admin on Obamacare. I specifically remembered the media saying it only applied to that district. Why now does it apply to the entire country?
The Republic is lost.

Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: Federal Judge Orders Complete Restart Of DACA
« Reply #31 on: April 26, 2018, 02:56:13 am »
Hmmmm...

So Obama can issue an unconstitutional EO and the court says nothing.

Trump reverses the EO and is told he can't?

Even if the original EO was constitutional, wouldn't Trump be allowed to ( if also constitutional) reverse it?

I hope SCOTUS sees this in the same light.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2018, 02:58:54 am by GrouchoTex »

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Federal Judge Orders Complete Restart Of DACA
« Reply #32 on: April 26, 2018, 03:00:44 am »
Hmmmm...

So Obama can issue an unconstitutional EO and the court says nothing.

Trump reverses the EO and is told he can't?

Even if the original EO was constitutional, wouldn't Trump be allowed to ( if also constitutional) reverse it?

I hope SCOTUS sees this in the same light.

LOL. The system is rigged. Legalities and logic have nothing to do with it.

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Federal Judge Orders Complete Restart Of DACA
« Reply #33 on: April 26, 2018, 03:01:56 am »
And who do you think he looks like?  Hint: it rhymes with Roto-Rooter and was also nominated by George HW


Harriet Myers?

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Federal Judge Orders Complete Restart Of DACA
« Reply #34 on: April 26, 2018, 08:45:23 am »
LOL. The system is rigged. Legalities and logic have nothing to do with it.
I agree.  Constitutionally this is an easy win for President Trump, but the courts have decided that they can get away with whatever they can get away with.  They could be right.  It turns out that change is not easy, as candidate Trump proclaimed.  It looks to me like the deep state does not want to leave, and it still looks like President Trump is not very good at this President thing.  JMHO.

The rats don't fear him.  They believe their own talking points.  "President Trump is stupid.  President Trump is vile.  President Trump is corrupt," they say.  "What difference do the facts make?"

There are rat voters and Trump voters who fantasize of media events depicting dreamer deportations.  Both think it would strengthen their cause, but I doubt either side gets motivated or changes their vote over this issue.

So I expect President Trump will put zero effort into solving DACA if it is sunny on the golf course, or "Gorilla Attacks" is on Fox.

I just made a solid and clever hit-post on Trump, on a thread about judicial activism.  How is it I'm not getting paid?

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Federal Judge Orders Complete Restart Of DACA
« Reply #35 on: April 26, 2018, 01:26:24 pm »
Care to inform us where in our laws where you believe that power was given them?

The Judiciary Act of 1789.

@IsailedawayfromFR
« Last Edit: April 26, 2018, 01:28:31 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Federal Judge Orders Complete Restart Of DACA
« Reply #36 on: April 26, 2018, 02:10:48 pm »
The Judiciary Act of 1789.

@IsailedawayfromFR
I see no power given them in that reference to issue nationwide orders.

That act specifically set up district courts and circuit courts along geographic areas to handle matters of federal law within the stated boundaries, with the Supreme Court being the entity that handles nationwide matters pertaining to federal laws.

@Maj. Bill Martin
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Offline skeeter

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Re: Federal Judge Orders Complete Restart Of DACA
« Reply #37 on: April 26, 2018, 02:26:03 pm »
Me too.  But...even tho I no longer like GWB,.... the fact remains.... he had no idea how his nominees would turn out.

Another problem the left doesn't seem to have.

We'll never live to see the day Sotomayor or Ginsberg rule in favor of gun owners or Christians on any issue no matter how compelling the reason.

Offline WingNot

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Re: Federal Judge Orders Complete Restart Of DACA
« Reply #38 on: April 26, 2018, 02:30:08 pm »
LOL. The system is rigged. Legalities and logic have nothing to do with it.

It's like a Grace Slick song. 
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Re: Federal Judge Orders Complete Restart Of DACA
« Reply #39 on: April 26, 2018, 02:32:53 pm »
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Federal Judge Orders Complete Restart Of DACA
« Reply #40 on: April 26, 2018, 03:11:09 pm »
I see no power given them in that reference to issue nationwide orders.

Exactly.

They were given the general powers of a court of law and equity, without geographic limitations in terms of remedies.  Truth is, federal courts routinely issue orders in civil cases that extend beyond their district, and nobody would claim for a second that they didn't.   All that is needed for complete jurisdiction over opposing parties -- even those that live in different states -- is minimal contacts.  And the federal government has at least minimal contacts everywhere in the country.  Therefore, given that general grant of authority, you'd need a carve-out to exclude the federal government itself from such orders.  And unfortunately, Congress didn't make one.

Quote
That act specifically set up district courts and circuit courts along geographic areas to handle matters of federal law within the stated boundaries, with the Supreme Court being the entity that handles nationwide matters pertaining to federal laws.

That's a false statement.  If you're a lawyer, i'll continue this.  Otherwise, I'm not really inclined to teach you Civil Procedure 101.  @IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Federal Judge Orders Complete Restart Of DACA
« Reply #41 on: April 26, 2018, 04:18:03 pm »
Exactly.

They were given the general powers of a court of law and equity, without geographic limitations in terms of remedies.  Truth is, federal courts routinely issue orders in civil cases that extend beyond their district, and nobody would claim for a second that they didn't.   All that is needed for complete jurisdiction over opposing parties -- even those that live in different states -- is minimal contacts.  And the federal government has at least minimal contacts everywhere in the country.  Therefore, given that general grant of authority, you'd need a carve-out to exclude the federal government itself from such orders.  And unfortunately, Congress didn't make one.

That's a false statement.  If you're a lawyer, i'll continue this.  Otherwise, I'm not really inclined to teach you Civil Procedure 101.  @IsailedawayfromFR

In any case, it is clear to me that the CONGRESS has been more than derilict in dealing with rouge courts and judges.

Quote

U.S. Constitution

Article III

Section 1

The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. The Judges, both of the supreme and inferior Courts, shall hold their Offices during good Behaviour, and shall, at stated Times, receive for their Services, a Compensation, which shall not be diminished during their Continuance in Office.

Section 2

1: The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority;—to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls;—to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction;—to Controversies to which the United States shall be a Party;—to Controversies between two or more States;—between a State and Citizens of another State;10 —between Citizens of different States, —between Citizens of the same State claiming Lands under Grants of different States, and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects.

2: In all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, and those in which a State shall be Party, the supreme Court shall have original Jurisdiction. In all the other Cases before mentioned, the supreme Court shall have appellateJurisdiction, both as to Law and Fact, with such Exceptions, and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make.

3: The Trial of all Crimes, except in Cases of Impeachment, shall be by Jury; and such Trial shall be held in the State where the said Crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any State, the Trial shall be at such Place or Places as the Congress may by Law have directed.
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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Federal Judge Orders Complete Restart Of DACA
« Reply #42 on: April 28, 2018, 02:18:48 pm »

That's a false statement.  If you're a lawyer, i'll continue this.  Otherwise, I'm not really inclined to teach you Civil Procedure 101.  @IsailedawayfromFR
Can you explain how a district court can handle a case made outside that district then?

Congress explicitly said it cannot.

Pretty harrumph of you to say that only lawyers can understand what the laws of this country mean.  That in itself is one of the major problems in this country, those arrogant lawyers in Congress and the courts who believe only they know what to do. @Maj. Bill Martin
« Last Edit: April 28, 2018, 02:19:58 pm by IsailedawayfromFR »
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Oceander

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Re: Federal Judge Orders Complete Restart Of DACA
« Reply #43 on: April 28, 2018, 02:28:04 pm »
I see no power given them in that reference to issue nationwide orders.

That act specifically set up district courts and circuit courts along geographic areas to handle matters of federal law within the stated boundaries, with the Supreme Court being the entity that handles nationwide matters pertaining to federal laws.

@Maj. Bill Martin

Not so.  All that is required is that there be a certain number of minimal contacts with the forum, and the court will have jurisdiction.  See, e.g., International Shoe. 

Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Federal Judge Orders Complete Restart Of DACA
« Reply #44 on: April 28, 2018, 03:36:52 pm »
Can you explain how a district court can handle a case made outside that district then?

Congress explicitly said it cannot.

Pretty harrumph of you to say that only lawyers can understand what the laws of this country mean.  That in itself is one of the major problems in this country, those arrogant lawyers in Congress and the courts who believe only they know what to do. @Maj. Bill Martin

You cannot argue that laymen, such as you and I, have the same mastery of the law that someone trained and experienced in the practice of law would have. This does not mean that our perspective is without value, but we'd be fools not to acknowledge someone's expertise in the field given 3 years of law school and a life of practicing law. I don't see it as a "harumph"...what Bill Martin is saying...simply an assertion of the reality that it takes year's of study to claim a full understanding of the complexities of constitutional law. Its not different than discussing the rebuild of a car engine with a master mechanic...if its my engine I will certainly have an opinion on the topic but I'd be crazy to ignore the mechanics view...and to heavily weight his view. I certainly WOULD consult with other mechanics but would MOSTLY defer to their collective expertise.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2018, 03:38:12 pm by Mesaclone »
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Oceander

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Re: Federal Judge Orders Complete Restart Of DACA
« Reply #45 on: April 28, 2018, 03:45:48 pm »
You cannot argue that laymen, such as you and I, have the same mastery of the law that someone trained and experienced in the practice of law would have. This does not mean that our perspective is without value, but we'd be fools not to acknowledge someone's expertise in the field given 3 years of law school and a life of practicing law. I don't see it as a "harumph"...what Bill Martin is saying...simply an assertion of the reality that it takes year's of study to claim a full understanding of the complexities of constitutional law. Its not different than discussing the rebuild of a car engine with a master mechanic...if its my engine I will certainly have an opinion on the topic but I'd be crazy to ignore the mechanics view...and to heavily weight his view. I certainly WOULD consult with other mechanics but would MOSTLY defer to their collective expertise.

Well put. 

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Federal Judge Orders Complete Restart Of DACA
« Reply #46 on: April 28, 2018, 03:58:39 pm »
You cannot argue that laymen, such as you and I, have the same mastery of the law that someone trained and experienced in the practice of law would have. This does not mean that our perspective is without value, but we'd be fools not to acknowledge someone's expertise in the field given 3 years of law school and a life of practicing law. I don't see it as a "harumph"...what Bill Martin is saying...simply an assertion of the reality that it takes year's of study to claim a full understanding of the complexities of constitutional law. Its not different than discussing the rebuild of a car engine with a master mechanic...if its my engine I will certainly have an opinion on the topic but I'd be crazy to ignore the mechanics view...and to heavily weight his view. I certainly WOULD consult with other mechanics but would MOSTLY defer to their collective expertise.
You are exactly and coherently making my case that the disasters of this country's present situation are due to the complexities of laws and the subjective, not necessarily objective, process of continuing a regimenting people into groups.  A lawyer is not more competent to understand a law than anyone else.  If so, then the laws in place need changing.

I view our problems compounded by years of allowing laws to overly complicate this country.  Make it simple.

That engine you need the mechanic to work on is complex as it was designed that way.

Our laws should not be.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline INVAR

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Re: Federal Judge Orders Complete Restart Of DACA
« Reply #47 on: April 28, 2018, 04:09:20 pm »
You are exactly and coherently making my case that the disasters of this country's present situation are due to the complexities of laws and the subjective, not necessarily objective, process of continuing a regimenting people into groups.  A lawyer is not more competent to understand a law than anyone else.  If so, then the laws in place need changing.

I view our problems compounded by years of allowing laws to overly complicate this country.  Make it simple.

That engine you need the mechanic to work on is complex as it was designed that way.

Our laws should not be.

Exactly correct. 

You have 7 Articles and 27 Amendments that detail specifics in regards to limits, procedures and operations of the Government, and billions of pages of "laws", "rulings" and "precedents" that have complicated the entire system to the point it now only serves those in power and those that fund that power.

The more "Laws" we exist under, the less liberty we have.

And that is exactly how those in power want it, and exactly how those who do not trust you with your liberty, want it.

Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

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Re: Federal Judge Orders Complete Restart Of DACA
« Reply #48 on: April 28, 2018, 04:22:37 pm »
Exactly correct. 

You have 7 Articles and 27 Amendments that detail specifics in regards to limits, procedures and operations of the Government, and billions of pages of "laws", "rulings" and "precedents" that have complicated the entire system to the point it now only serves those in power and those that fund that power.

The more "Laws" we exist under, the less liberty we have.

And that is exactly how those in power want it, and exactly how those who do not trust you with your liberty, want it.

Attorneys seem to like the fact that our laws are impossibly complex (to "laymen" that is), because their services are required to make sense of them, and lord that superior knowledge of the serfs.  (Note how easily we accept the condescending term "laymen?")  As this becomes more and more pervasive, the more distant we become to the concept of "consent of the governed." 

The only question is, how long until the people have had enough of this and start revolting against the tyrannical courts?  The courts and their participants are constantly probing this, to see what they can get away with, like boiling a frog.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Re: Federal Judge Orders Complete Restart Of DACA
« Reply #49 on: April 28, 2018, 04:28:26 pm »
You cannot argue that laymen, such as you and I, have the same mastery of the law that someone trained and experienced in the practice of law would have. This does not mean that our perspective is without value, but we'd be fools not to acknowledge someone's expertise in the field given 3 years of law school and a life of practicing law. I don't see it as a "harumph"...what Bill Martin is saying...simply an assertion of the reality that it takes year's of study to claim a full understanding of the complexities of constitutional law. Its not different than discussing the rebuild of a car engine with a master mechanic...if its my engine I will certainly have an opinion on the topic but I'd be crazy to ignore the mechanics view...and to heavily weight his view. I certainly WOULD consult with other mechanics but would MOSTLY defer to their collective expertise.

When the laws have become so complex the ordinary citizens cannot understand them, they we are no longer being ruled by "the consent of the governed."  There will be a revolt, eventually.  We have already become stratified into the kind of separate classes we rebelled against in the 18th Century.  Note the superior air of those who would explain to us why white is black and up is down.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed: