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Author Topic: The Supreme Court just handed the Trump administration a loss on immigration — and Gorsuch was the t  (Read 2236 times)

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Offline ABX

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The Supreme Court just handed the Trump administration a loss on immigration — and Gorsuch was the t
« on: April 17, 2018, 03:07:24 pm »
So much for the 'amazing Conservative judge' on the court. It looks like Gorsuch may be another John Roberts (who was also supposed to be an 'amazing Conservative').

Quote
The Supreme Court on Tuesday ruled that part of a federal law that makes it easier to deport immigrants convicted of crimes is too vague.

The 5-4 ruling handed the Trump administration a loss on a signature issue.

...Justice Neil Gorsuch, who was appointed by President Donald Trump, joined the court's more liberal justices to cast the deciding vote.....

http://www.businessinsider.com/gorsuch-supreme-court-votes-immigration-case-2018-4





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Offline guitar4jesus

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Re: The Supreme Court just handed the Trump administration a loss on immigration — and Gorsuch was t
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2018, 03:13:29 pm »
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Offline goodwithagun

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Re: The Supreme Court just handed the Trump administration a loss on immigration — and Gorsuch was t
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2018, 03:16:32 pm »
Conservative judges was why we were told to hold our noses and vote MAGA.
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Offline TomSea

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Re: The Supreme Court just handed the Trump administration a loss on immigration — and Gorsuch was t
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2018, 03:17:48 pm »
"The Supreme Court on Tuesday ruled that part of a federal law that makes it easier to deport immigrants convicted of crimes is too vague."

So much for those out to get Trump on anything, analysis.  We won't always get what we want, of course, nitpickers can say "see, look at this".

"After he pleaded no contest to two charges of burglary in California, the government began deportation proceedings against him. "

It might be conceivable that burglary is vague as being a crime of violence but hey, make the case it is.
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Offline INVAR

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Re: The Supreme Court just handed the Trump administration a loss on immigration — and Gorsuch was t
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2018, 03:22:35 pm »
Quote from: goodwithagun on April 17, 2018, 03:16:32 pm
Conservative judges was why we were told to hold our noses and vote MAGA.

It was all bullshit to begin with.

Some of us were simply not stupid enough to fall for the ruse.  They put their hopes in a false political messiah.
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Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline goodwithagun

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Re: The Supreme Court just handed the Trump administration a loss on immigration — and Gorsuch was t
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2018, 03:24:30 pm »
Trumpsplainers gonna trumpsplain, trumpsplain, trumpsplain (sung to the tune of TSwift’s “Shake It Off”).
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Offline goodwithagun

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Re: The Supreme Court just handed the Trump administration a loss on immigration — and Gorsuch was t
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2018, 03:27:04 pm »
Quote from: INVAR on April 17, 2018, 03:22:35 pm
It was all bullshit to begin with.

Some of us were simply not stupid enough to fall for the ruse.  They put their hopes in a false political messiah.

So similar to the Obamaniacs with their cult of personality. MAGA is the new hope and change.
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Offline TomSea

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Re: The Supreme Court just handed the Trump administration a loss on immigration — and Gorsuch was t
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2018, 03:34:55 pm »
Quote
Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia is one of the most conservative justices of all time, a man who proudly boasts of his reactionary jurisprudence and flaunts his connection to the Republican elite. But every once in a while, Scalia’s insistence on interpreting the Constitution exactly how it was (purportedly) understood by the framers leads him to unexpectedly progressive opinions. From flag burning to warrantless searches to free speech, Scalia’s liberal streak has made a surprisingly profound impact on constitutional law.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2014/09/justice_antonin_scalia_s_brilliant_liberal_moments_on_the_supreme_court.html

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Offline driftdiver

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Re: The Supreme Court just handed the Trump administration a loss on immigration — and Gorsuch was t
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2018, 03:43:57 pm »
Just so I understand you NTs, having vague laws which can be interpreted in different ways is a good thing.  That's what you all are saying?
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: The Supreme Court just handed the Trump administration a loss on immigration — and Gorsuch was t
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2018, 03:45:03 pm »
 9999hair out0000
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: The Supreme Court just handed the Trump administration a loss on immigration — and Gorsuch was t
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2018, 03:45:31 pm »
Quote from: driftdiver on April 17, 2018, 03:43:57 pm
Just so I understand you NTs, having vague laws which can be interpreted in different ways is a good thing.  That's what you all are saying?

You can try all you want putting lipstick on that pig, but he's still ugly.
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Offline driftdiver

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Re: The Supreme Court just handed the Trump administration a loss on immigration — and Gorsuch was t
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2018, 03:48:26 pm »
Quote from: Sanguine on April 17, 2018, 03:45:31 pm
You can try all you want putting lipstick on that pig, but he's still ugly.

Honestly I don't know enough to say if this is good or bad.  Perhaps the law is poorly written.  Perhaps  this is more judicial activism.

All the told you so's are ignorant and premature.  I for one don't think poorly written laws are a good thing.
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Offline Polly Ticks

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Re: The Supreme Court just handed the Trump administration a loss on immigration — and Gorsuch was t
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2018, 03:56:27 pm »
I'm not ready to pillory him over this quite yet.  I think that ruling on a case based on how the law is actually written isn't a bad thing, and Gorsuch did make comments when he was first nominated that he believed in that very thing.  I think we were all encouraged by those statements at the time, yes?

Go back, fix the law to be more specific, and try again.

In the meantime, as long as Gorsuch isn't "finding" things in laws which aren't directly stated, I'm not going to throw him under the bus.
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: The Supreme Court just handed the Trump administration a loss on immigration — and Gorsuch was t
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2018, 03:58:40 pm »
Quote from: driftdiver on April 17, 2018, 03:48:26 pm
Honestly I don't know enough to say if this is good or bad.  Perhaps the law is poorly written.  Perhaps  this is more judicial activism.

All the told you so's are ignorant and premature.  I for one don't think poorly written laws are a good thing.

I can respect your waiting for more information. 

But, this is enough for me, until and unless some other information comes out:

Quote
Tuesday's decision involves James Dimaya, a native of the Philippines who came to the United States legally as a 13-year-old in 1992. After he pleaded no contest to two charges of burglary in California, the government began deportation proceedings against him. The government argued among other things that he could be removed from the country because his convictions qualified as crimes of violence that allowed his removal under immigration law.

Immigration officials relied on a section of immigration law that lists crimes that make people eligible for deportation. The category in which Dimaya's convictions fell is a crime "that, by its very nature, involves a substantial risk that physical force ... may be used in the course of committing the offense."
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Offline dfwgator

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Re: The Supreme Court just handed the Trump administration a loss on immigration — and Gorsuch was t
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2018, 04:11:31 pm »
Quote from: Polly Ticks on April 17, 2018, 03:56:27 pm


Go back, fix the law to be more specific, and try again.

 

How did that work out with Judas Roberts and ObamaCare?
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Offline Polly Ticks

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Re: The Supreme Court just handed the Trump administration a loss on immigration — and Gorsuch was t
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2018, 04:16:22 pm »
Quote from: dfwgator on April 17, 2018, 04:11:31 pm
How did that work out with Judas Roberts and ObamaCare?

Not a valid comparison to this case.  Roberts decided that ObamaCare was a "tax" rather than ruling on how the law was actually written. 
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Offline dfwgator

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Re: The Supreme Court just handed the Trump administration a loss on immigration — and Gorsuch was t
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2018, 04:17:40 pm »
Quote from: Polly Ticks on April 17, 2018, 04:16:22 pm
Not a valid comparison to this case.  Roberts decided that ObamaCare was a "tax" rather than ruling on how the law was actually written.

His vote was still with all the liberals.   That's the bottom line.
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: The Supreme Court just handed the Trump administration a loss on immigration — and Gorsuch was t
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2018, 04:27:09 pm »
Quote from: goodwithagun on April 17, 2018, 03:16:32 pm
Conservative judges was why we were told to hold our noses and vote MAGA.

And why was Gorsuch's opinion inconsistent with "conservatism"?   Do you really believe that it is right and good and conservative for laws to be written with such vagueness that their application becomes a matter of selective and/or arbitrary enforcement? 

Gorsuch wrote

Quote
  [N]o one should be surprised that the Constitution looks unkindly on any law so vague that reasonable people cannot understand its terms and judges do not know where to begin in applying it." 

I agree!   Why don't you??
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: The Supreme Court just handed the Trump administration a loss on immigration — and Gorsuch was t
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2018, 04:29:59 pm »
Quote from: Polly Ticks on April 17, 2018, 03:56:27 pm
I'm not ready to pillory him over this quite yet.  I think that ruling on a case based on how the law is actually written isn't a bad thing, and Gorsuch did make comments when he was first nominated that he believed in that very thing.  I think we were all encouraged by those statements at the time, yes?

Go back, fix the law to be more specific, and try again.

In the meantime, as long as Gorsuch isn't "finding" things in laws which aren't directly stated, I'm not going to throw him under the bus.

 :amen:

Thanks, PT, for the first post exhibiting common sense on this thread. 
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Offline TomSea

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Re: The Supreme Court just handed the Trump administration a loss on immigration — and Gorsuch was t
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2018, 04:36:09 pm »
Looks like Gorsuch is seeing this as a civil liberties issue, at least, that seems to be the reasoning with Scalia's interpretations. I don't agree with it but I'm not fully informed on the issues.

Quote
Ok Lefties, you can SHUT UP now: Neil Gorsuch sides with immigrant facing deportation

Posted at 11:57 am on April 17, 2018 by Sam J.

Justice Neil Gorsuch joined liberal justices on Monday siding with an immigrant who was facing deportation because the law was too vague.

Read more at: https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2018/04/17/ok-lefties-you-can-shut-up-now-neil-gorsuch-sides-with-illegal-immigrant-facing-deportation/

Was anyone home when these residential burglaries took place? That would make a big difference to me.

The court-issued decision is here, the accused has "legal residency" from what I understand, so he may not be an absolute illegal:
https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/17pdf/15-1498_1b8e.pdf

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Offline TomSea

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Re: The Supreme Court just handed the Trump administration a loss on immigration — and Gorsuch was t
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2018, 04:37:58 pm »
Quote from: dfwgator on April 17, 2018, 04:17:40 pm
His vote was still with all the liberals.   That's the bottom line.

And one could say his vote was for civil liberties and that's the bottom line. We hear the jeering about "asset forfeiture" around here. That's about civil liberties as well.
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Offline TomSea

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Re: The Supreme Court just handed the Trump administration a loss on immigration — and Gorsuch was t
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2018, 04:41:12 pm »
Quote from: Jazzhead on April 17, 2018, 04:29:59 pm
:amen:

Thanks, PT, for the first post exhibiting common sense on this thread.

Gratuitous personal attack on all other members in this thread.
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Offline Polly Ticks

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Re: The Supreme Court just handed the Trump administration a loss on immigration — and Gorsuch was t
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2018, 04:44:40 pm »
Quote from: Jazzhead on April 17, 2018, 04:29:59 pm
:amen:

Thanks, PT, for the first post exhibiting common sense on this thread.

@Jazzhead   Uh oh. Now I'm starting to re-think it ...   

(Just kidding!!  I hope you're feeling better and your recovery is going well, by the way.)
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Offline thackney

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Re: The Supreme Court just handed the Trump administration a loss on immigration — and Gorsuch was t
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2018, 04:51:31 pm »
Quote from: TomSea on April 17, 2018, 04:36:09 pm
Looks like Gorsuch is seeing this as a civil liberties issue, at least, that seems to be the reasoning with Scalia's interpretations. I don't agree with it but I'm not fully informed on the issues.

Was anyone home when these residential burglaries took place? That would make a big difference to me.

The court-issued decision is here, the accused has "legal residency" from what I understand, so he may not be an absolute illegal:
https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/17pdf/15-1498_1b8e.pdf

I believe if someone was home at the time, it would be robbery, not burglary.

Burglary as I understand isn't a violent crime and doesn't have the potential to become violent because the owner isn't present.  The charges would need to include robbery as well for even the potential of violence.
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Offline Slip18

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Re: The Supreme Court just handed the Trump administration a loss on immigration — and Gorsuch was t
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2018, 05:09:07 pm »
Quote from: TomSea on April 17, 2018, 04:36:09 pm
Looks like Gorsuch is seeing this as a civil liberties issue, at least, that seems to be the reasoning with Scalia's interpretations. I don't agree with it but I'm not fully informed on the issues.

Was anyone home when these residential burglaries took place? That would make a big difference to me.

The court-issued decision is here, the accused has "legal residency" from what I understand, so he may not be an absolute illegal:
https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/17pdf/15-1498_1b8e.pdf

The definition of burglary is without force or fear.

Robbery is with force or fear.

Just saying...
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