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Author Topic: The Politics of Debt in America: From Debtor’s Prison to Debtor Nation  (Read 1055 times)

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Offline LauraTXNM

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The Politics of Debt in America: From Debtor’s Prison to Debtor Nation
« on: March 17, 2018, 10:35:10 pm »
I found this while looking for info about the Founding Fathers' attitude toward debt.  It's a history of debt in the U.S., and I'd love to get your all's opinions about it.

https://www.commondreams.org/views/2013/01/29/politics-debt-america-debtors-prison-debtor-nation

"Debt remains, as it long has been, the Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde of capitalism.  For a small minority, it’s a blessing; for others a curse.  For some the moral burden of carrying debt is a heavy one, and no one lets them forget it.  For privileged others, debt bears no moral baggage at all, presents itself as an opportunity to prosper, and if things go wrong can be dumped without a qualm."
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Offline Suppressed

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Re: The Politics of Debt in America: From Debtor’s Prison to Debtor Nation
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2018, 09:22:16 am »
I think minor amounts of debt can be acceptable, if the deficit spending was put to good use, such as investment or dealing with an emergency.

That being said, I'm not advocating speculative investment by the government.

That being said, I'm not unsympathetic to those economists why say that a non-deficit economy is inherently unable to compete with a deficit one, and that our federal government would cost more if not allowed some small debt.


What we have now is far above that, though.
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Offline Concerned

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Re: The Politics of Debt in America: From Debtor’s Prison to Debtor Nation
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2018, 01:49:09 pm »
As @Suppressed implied, a reasonable amount of debt makes sense for everyone:  individuals (e.g., mortgages), companies (e.g., capital investment), and nations (e.g., stimulus to recover from economic crises).   As a nation, I think we’ve gone well beyond that though.  The warning signs have been and continue to be clear yet our leadership and politicians are ignoring the warnings.  Just this week: 

Quote
The amount of money the U.S. government spends servicing its debt would surpass defense spending by 2024 and Medicaid spending by 2021, according to a study by the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget (CRFB).

<snip>

Things could be significantly worse if lawmakers intervene to stop certain tax cuts from expiring, which is likely.
 
In that case, CRFB found, servicing the debt would cost $1.05 trillion by 2028, or 3.6 percent of GDP.  That would amount to a quadrupling of the current interest payment, making debt servicing the fastest-growing category in government spending.

Can you imagine $1T in interest payments?  I would have thought the Greek debt crisis a few years ago would have been a red flag for all nations.  Instead, Obama just kept adding trillions to the debt and inexplicably so have Trump and a Republican Congress.  This chart was from a few years ago, but I don’t think it’s gotten any better:



Our current levels of debt and deficit spending just isn't fiscally sustainable yet we keep doing it.

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/378607-us-could-spend-more-on-servicing-debt-than-defense-by-2024-study
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Offline LMAO

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Re: The Politics of Debt in America: From Debtor’s Prison to Debtor Nation
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2018, 01:49:38 am »
Our total debt is over 100% of GDP. This is the second time in our history. WW2 did it but that was war debt which could be paid down after the war. Entitlements now count for most of the federal budget and that's going to grow.

It's simply not sustainable and the only way we'll see any spending cuts is when markets and math force them. There's not the will in DC simply because many of these programs are popular
« Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 01:52:57 am by LMAO »
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Offline DB

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Re: The Politics of Debt in America: From Debtor’s Prison to Debtor Nation
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2018, 02:02:24 am »
Quote from: LMAO on March 19, 2018, 01:49:38 am
Our total debt is over 100% of GDP. This is the second time in our history. WW2 did it but that was war debt which could be paid down after the war. Entitlements now count for most of the federal budget and that's going to grow.

It's simply not sustainable and the only way we'll see any spending cuts is when markets and math force them. There's not the will in DC simply because many of these programs are popular

No "markets and math" stop the printing press until it is way past the point of no return. That has been illustrated over and over yet it doesn't stop them from doing it... It will be different this time we're told...
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Online jmyrlefuller

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Re: The Politics of Debt in America: From Debtor’s Prison to Debtor Nation
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2018, 03:13:50 pm »
Quote from: DB on March 19, 2018, 02:02:24 am
No "markets and math" stop the printing press until it is way past the point of no return. That has been illustrated over and over yet it doesn't stop them from doing it... It will be different this time we're told...
Meanwhile, the voters would rather live their life of decadence than deal with it, and let it be someone else's crisis. In a semi-related note, the birth rate in this country and much of the debt-laden western world is collapsing.
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Offline Fishrrman

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Re: The Politics of Debt in America: From Debtor’s Prison to Debtor Nation
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2018, 12:26:30 am »
No one in this government will do anything about "the debt problem" because it will not be a problem until the point is reached where things can no longer continue as they have before that moment.

We are years, perhaps decades, from that moment.

Then... and ONLY then... will elected officials "do something" about it. Because at that point, they will have no other choice.

Aside:
Those in government HAVE "choices" today (and will have them until "the moment" is reached). Those choices are "let it ride, by the time it requires fixing it will have become someone ELSE'S problem"

I sense that when they DO actually "do something about it", the measures taken will be draconian and perhaps authoritarian.
But there will probably be no other "choices" available by then...
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