Trump to take steps to ban bump stocks

[LauraTXNM]

There is a wide spectrum "mental illnesses." What laws specify the specific mental illnesses, which disqualify gun ownership?

Some claim we are in the midst of a "mental health crisis." (My opinion is, much of it stems from dangerous drugs, like speed, opioids, etc.)

ADHD, Bipolar, Unipolar, Schizoid, etc?  We are all just babbling.

I have several relatives that take depression meds. One threatened suicide, 40 years ago to start her life cycle. In her case, the meds keep here fairly normal, although she says at times, it is very uncomfortable for her. I seriously doubt she would ever be a danger to others.

I'm sorry for your relative(s); my family also has been helped by meds.  But I know the side effects can be extremely unpleasant.

I've been saying, that I don't know all the answers for this specific issue.  I would think violent actions that bring LE to one's home (like the FL shooter) should be considered.  I think issuing threats should count.  I think telling a therapist voices are telling you to kill people would qualify.  So might a restraining order.  The FL case obviously demonstrates multiple failures by LE, school, and maybe medical professionals (?).  We need to hold them accountable to do better, and we need to as a country get serious about this subject.

[roamer_1]

Those of us who do remember history are doomed to be dragged through the repetition of history caused by the fools who don't remember it.

That's right...Better go buy you a place up in the sticks buddy. It's a comin'

[LauraTXNM]

https://www.johntfloyd.com/convicted-felons-possessing-firearms-in-texas/

Note that this 5 years past the sentence.  If you get a 20 year sentence, get out early for good behavior, it is still 25 years before you can legally keep a gun in your home.

You still need to focus on the law is only restrictive to those that follow the law.  Criminals are not.  Forbidding anyone to own a gun only stops the one that wants to follow the law.

For the criminal, felon or not, that wants to rob or attack people, he already has his gun if he wants it.  That law isn't going to slow him down any more than the laws against illegal drugs prevent those that want them to get them.  Laws only impact the ones that want to follow the law.

Do you think there are groups of people who shouldn't be able to buy a gun?

[LauraTXNM]

So a guy that beat the crap outta a bunch of guys and tore a bar down when he was in his twenties should not be able to ever buy a gun again?
Nah. That ain't right.

Should he also be able to vote again?
Where do you draw the line?  Should a convicted murderer, once released from prison, be able to buy a gun?
Are there some actions bad enough to demand permanent consequences?

[LauraTXNM]

https://www.johntfloyd.com/convicted-felons-possessing-firearms-in-texas/

Note that this 5 years past the sentence.  If you get a 20 year sentence, get out early for good behavior, it is still 25 years before you can legally keep a gun in your home.

You still need to focus on the law is only restrictive to those that follow the law.  Criminals are not.  Forbidding anyone to own a gun only stops the one that wants to follow the law.

For the criminal, felon or not, that wants to rob or attack people, he already has his gun if he wants it.  That law isn't going to slow him down any more than the laws against illegal drugs prevent those that want them to get them.  Laws only impact the ones that want to follow the law.

Ok, so my main issue is the mental health one. 
Right now we seem to be talking about whether there should be gun ownership prohibitions for anyone.  Do you think we should do away with background checks altogether?

It seems if we had no background checks, criminals would feel free to buy guns at Walmart rather than having to go to the black market.

[roamer_1]

Should he also be able to vote again?
Where do you draw the line?  Should a convicted murderer, once released from prison, be able to buy a gun?
See there some actions bad enough to demand permanent consequences?

Sure he should vote again too.

Muderer - Again, that depends.

If they are so bad that they shouldn't be in society,  then a bullet in the ear should be the permanent consequence. Then we don't have all these worries.   

REAL rapists, REAL pedophiles... Alright, but again, bullets are cheap.

[roamer_1]

It seems if we had no background checks, criminals would feel free to buy guns at Walmart rather than having to go to the black market.

Why would they do that? The street is way cheaper. especially for a gun you are going to melt down.

[LauraTXNM]

Sure he should vote again too.

Muderer - Again, that depends.

If they are so bad that they shouldn't be in society,  then a bullet in the ear should be the permanent consequence. Then we don't have all these worries.   

REAL rapists, REAL pedophiles... Alright, but again, bullets are cheap.

But until we have laws again that keep serious murderers, rapists, and pedophiles on death row or in prison for life, I don't think they should be allowed to buy weapons again. 

It's interesting -- I've seen (mostly) conservatives complain about Virginia giving felons their voting rights back.  Do you all see that as hypocritical?

[LauraTXNM]

Why would they do that? The street is way cheaper. especially for a gun you are going to melt down.

So the street is definitely cheaper than a dealer?  Then why doesn't everyone use the black market?

[edpc]

So the street is definitely cheaper than a dealer?  Then why doesn't everyone use the black market?

Because not everyone is a criminal and you're likely to get a crap gun, unless you pay a premium for quality.  You also have to hope the sale isn't a sting, won't get you robbed, or killed.

If you wanted an untraceable throwaway for some reason, you may risk it.

[LauraTXNM]

Because not everyone is a criminal and you're likely to get a crap gun, unless you pay a premium for quality.  You also have to hope the sale isn't a sting, won't get you robbed, or killed.

If you wanted an untraceable throwaway for some reason, you may risk it.

Ok, so there are *good* reasons to use a dealer.  Then if there were no background checks, it seems logical at least some criminals would buy from dealers. 

[roamer_1]

But until we have laws again that keep serious murderers, rapists, and pedophiles on death row or in prison for life, I don't think they should be allowed to buy weapons again.

That's the point. You can't stop them from buying weapons again.  No matter what you do. You can make it illegal for them to do it, but that will stop nothing. It only gives you another charge you can hang em with when they are eventually caught doing wrong.

It's interesting -- I've seen (mostly) conservatives complain about Virginia giving felons their voting rights back.  Do you all see that as hypocritical?

You'll find most Western men to be more libertarian - Generally speaking, if they have done their time, and certainly if they have proven to be reformed, I see no way in which the state should require anything more.

[edpc]

Ok, so there are *good* reasons to use a dealer.  Then if there were no background checks, it seems logical at least some criminals would buy from dealers.

Well, it's more likely the criminal would come into the shop, check the inventory, gauge the security, weigh the risks, then come back later and steal everything.   

[LauraTXNM]

That's the point. You can't stop them from buying weapons again.  No matter what you do. You can make it illegal for them to do it, but that will stop nothing. It only gives you another charge you can hang em with when they are eventually caught doing wrong.

You'll find most Western men to be more libertarian - Generally speaking, if they have done their time, and certainly if they have proven to be reformed, I see no way in which the state should require anything more.

That's much like my dad and granddad's attitude; they were very much live-and-let-live.  Thank you, @roamer_1.  I know we don't agree about some things, but I appreciate you sharing your experience with me.

[roamer_1]

So the street is definitely cheaper than a dealer? 

Oh, heck yeah. Cheaper by half.

Then why doesn't everyone use the black market?

It ain't 'the black market'. It's the street. Legal sales. But that's what I have been saying - Everybody DOES use the street.

[LauraTXNM]

Well, it's more likely the criminal would come into the shop, check the inventory, gauge the security, weigh the risks, then come back later and steal everything.   

Yep, there's always that option ;).

[LauraTXNM]

Oh, heck yeah. Cheaper by half.

It ain't 'the black market'. It's the street. Legal sales. But that's what I have been saying - Everybody DOES use the street.

Ok, I missed your distinction before.  Wouldn't you rather criminals had to use the black market rather than the *legal* street?

[driftdiver]

Oh, heck yeah. Cheaper by half.

It ain't 'the black market'. It's the street. Legal sales. But that's what I have been saying - Everybody DOES use the street.

I don't.  I prefer to pay more at the store.   That and I like my guns unused

[truth_seeker]

I'm sorry for your relative(s); my family also has been helped by meds.  But I know the side effects can be extremely unpleasant.

I've been saying, that I don't know all the answers for this specific issue.  I would think violent actions that bring LE to one's home (like the FL shooter) should be considered.  I think issuing threats should count.  I think telling a therapist voices are telling you to kill people would qualify.  So might a restraining order.  The FL case obviously demonstrates multiple failures by LE, school, and maybe medical professionals (?).  We need to hold them accountable to do better, and we need to as a country get serious about this subject.

Bad behavior has been classified as an illness. That way the person is not held accountable. He is instead a "victim" of a condition, which is deemed beyond his control.

I am sort of old school. Once upon a time in the West, a townsman kicked the holy crap out of somebody that exhibited bad behavior. He didn't wait around for the next trip by the circuit shrink to town.

More often than not, the bad behavior guy, either shaped up or left town.

If he leaves town, then comes back with more bad behavior, maybe his days (or his days of freedom) need to end.

[driftdiver]

Ok, I missed your distinction before.  Wouldn't you rather criminals had to use the black market rather than the *legal* street?

I'd prefer criminals not buy guns since it's illegal for them to do so.

[roamer_1]

That's much like my dad and granddad's attitude; they were very much live-and-let-live.  Thank you, @roamer_1.  I know we don't agree about some things, but I appreciate you sharing your experience with me.

Likewise, @LauraTXNM   
And I might add: I don't care what you do in your state. If y'all want to try all this junk go ahead. You can have your way.  I am against any form of gun control, but it's certainly fair if you want it over there. It's the federal mandate I will adamantly object to.

But then, CA (where you are IIRC) already has all these draconian laws, at least in the cities, for all the good they do.

[roamer_1]

Ok, I missed your distinction before.  Wouldn't you rather criminals had to use the black market rather than the *legal* street?

And how exactly can you do that? There is no way. So no, I have no preference, because the preference would be invalid.

[roamer_1]

I don't.  I prefer to pay more at the store.   That and I like my guns unused

Then you have more to pay 
I do not.  I will not pay twice as much for a rifle that is new vs a rifle that is well kept and in pristine condition. Optics, maybe, but not the rifle. I don't care a whit if it has already been blooded. Exactly TWO of my rifles came across a counter in my whole life, and none of my handguns.

[roamer_1]

I'd prefer criminals not buy guns since it's illegal for them to do so.

I would prefer criminals not be criminals.

Wish in one hand...

[edpc]

I don't.  I prefer to pay more at the store.   That and I like my guns unused

I’ve only bought one used and it was from someone I knew very well and trusted its condition.  Otherwise, I agree.  There’s only one new weapon that ever gave me trouble.  Oddly enough, it was a revolver.  I found out later Rossi revolvers are known for timing issues.