From Prozac to Parkland: Are Psychiatric Drugs Causing Mass Shootings?

[corbe]

 
From Prozac to Parkland: Are Psychiatric Drugs Causing Mass Shootings?
 Written by  Selwyn Duke 
 Saturday, 17 February 2018
 
Whille mass killers generally have guns in their hands, another commonality is that they often have psychiatric drugs in their blood. The difference, though, is that it isn't guns that have the side effect of "homicidal ideation."

 If you develop digestive problems after a change in diet, do you look for the cause in foods you always ate or the new ones you started eating? While the answer is obvious, this common sense is painfully uncommon when analyzing the new phenomenon of continual mass shootings: Many blame the long-present “foods” — guns in this case — and ignore the new diet whose embrace coincided with the problem. And part of what’s new is the widespread use of psychiatric drugs.

As a case in point, the Parkland, Florida, shooter (I won’t use his name and help provide the fame he craved), who murdered 17 on Valentine’s Day, was on medication for emotional issues, his aunt related. This is now a familiar story, too. As WND.com’s David Kupelian put it Thursday, the following is par for the course: As information about a “perpetrator emerges, a relative confides to a newspaper that the ‘troubled youth’ who committed the mass murder was on psychiatric medications — you know, those powerful, little understood, mind-altering drugs with fearsome side effects including ‘suicidal ideation’ and even ‘homicidal ideation.’”

<..snip..>

https://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/28307-from-prozac-to-parkland-are-psychiatric-drugs-causing-mass-shootings

[truth_seeker]

When The Black Dog Starts Growling: 5 Steps to Leash Your Depression

By Alicia Sparks

Although the roots of the phrase itself can be traced back to a variety of origins, we’ve always — or at least since the early 20th century — attributed the phrase “The Black Dog” as a metaphor for depression to Winston Churchill.

And folks who suffer from, work to manage, and live daily with depression know this phrase — this description of a wild, ominously colored constant companion, growling and baring his thick, razor-sharp teeth — to be a fairly accurate metaphor.

They also know that, if not leashed in time, their own Black Dogs will snap, lunge, and eventually sink in their teeth.

Fortunately, every Black Dog has a collar. Why? Because depression is a manageable, treatable mental illness. What you have to figure out is how to snap a leash on that collar, and regain control, when your Black Dog breaks loose.

Step 1: Stop. Stop and listen, just as you would if you really were enjoying a hike through the woods or wandering along the streets and heard an animal growling. Don’t move, don’t talk, and don’t panic – just stop and listen.

Can you tell from which direction the growls are coming? Can you tell how near the animal is? The goal here is to figure out how much time you have to work with.

Fortunately, because you’re just now hearing the growls, you probably have – maybe not a great deal of time to take action – but enough time so that you’re not overcome, i.e. curled into the fetal position and wondering what the hell happened.

Step 2: Evaluate your surroundings.

What you do now is determine two things:

snip

https://psychcentral.com/lib/when-the-black-dog-starts-growling-5-steps-to-leash-your-depression/

[Sanguine]

We don't know that this person was on drugs.  Looks like he probably was at some point, but probably wasn't for some time before he started murdering people.

[MajorClay]

Might be on to something here.

[goatprairie]

Might be on to something here.

An erroneous conclusion might be made that since a number of shooters weren't on drugs, then the argument is invalid.
A better conclusion might be that while not all these recent mass killers have been on drugs, a number of them might have been adversely affected by drug treatment that made their conditions worse.
I once dated a woman who had mental problems. She started taking stronger doses of whatever the county authorities were giving her, and she got worse.
She got worse to the point of starting to pick up knives and threaten to kill herself while standing over me. And, yes, she threatened to kill me too.
Needless to say, I got out of that relationship as fast as I could.
It's true, as some on here are saying, that these drugs have helped many people.  But it's also worth looking into situations where drugs might have made things worse.

[the_doc]

@goatprairie
@MajorClay
@Sanguine

An erroneous conclusion might be made that since a number of shooters weren't on drugs, then the argument is invalid.

For what it's worth, Roger Hedgecock, one of the talk show hosts who has subbed for Rush in the past, claimed a few years ago on his San Diego show that he had personally researched all of the school shootings in the U.S. and could not find any perpetrators that were not on the common antidepressant drugs or perhaps even stronger psych meds.

Also, Scott Peck, M.D., a Christian psychiatrist who has written a couple of very interesting books, once had an epiphany:  some people who seemingly do need psych meds are just plain evil.

[Frank Cannon]

Selwyn Duke (@SelwynDuke) is a traditionalist media personality whose work has been published widely online and in print, appearing at outlets such as The Hill, The American Conservative, WorldNetDaily and American Thinker. He has also contributed to college textbooks published by Gale - Cengage Learning.

Not seeing a lot or any background on mental health or medicine here.

[the_doc]

Selwyn Duke (@SelwynDuke) is a traditionalist media personality whose work has been published widely online and in print, appearing at outlets such as The Hill, The American Conservative, WorldNetDaily and American Thinker. He has also contributed to college textbooks published by Gale - Cengage Learning.

Not seeing a lot or any background on mental health or medicine here.

Right, the same could be said for Roger Hedgecock.  But Hedgecock had pretty disturbing data.  And I have personally seen psychotic breaks in guys taking SSRIs (not many, but when they happen, they're a really bad side effect).

[goatprairie]

@goatprairie
@MajorClay
@Sanguine

For what it's worth, Roger Hedgecock, one of the talk show hosts who has subbed for Rush in the past, claimed a few years ago on his San Diego show that he had personally researched all of the school shootings in the U.S. and could not find any perpetrators that were not on the common antidepressant drugs or perhaps even stronger psych meds.

Also, Scott Peck, M.D., a Christian psychiatrist who has written a couple of very interesting books, once had an epiphany:  some people who seemingly do need psych meds are just plain evil.

Both statements are true: many people can be adversely affected by these drugs, and, yes, some people are just plain evil.

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

WND implied that the shooter was on drugs, but no solid confirmation yet.

http://www.wnd.com/2018/02/media-ignoring-1-crucial-factor-in-florida-school-shooting/

If you haven't already been here, have a look.

https://ssristories.org/

And remember that there is No law requiring 'Adverse Reactions' to drugs to be reported to any Federal Agency. So these stories are only the ones that Got reported.

When it does come out that the shooter was or had been on psych drugs Media will gloss over it and sweep it under the rug.

[Frank Cannon]

Right, the same could be said for Roger Hedgecock.  But Hedgecock had pretty disturbing data.  And I have personally seen psychotic breaks in guys taking SSRIs (not many, but when they happen, they're a really bad side effect).

Same could be said for coke heads, drunks, heroin addicts, free base freaks and glue sniffers.

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

Same could be said for coke heads, drunks, heroin addicts, free base freaks and glue sniffers.

True enough, but what makes the legal psych drugs so much worse is the person On them doesn't even know they're that high or out of control.

They've been told the stuff is 'medicine', and they believe it.

[Victoria33]

We don't know that this person was on drugs.  Looks like he probably was at some point, but probably wasn't for some time before he started murdering people.

@Sanguine
@mystery-ak
@Freya 

The article said, "Of course, also relating to correlation, there’s a chicken-or-egg question here: Is it that taking psychiatric drugs makes a person more likely to go crazy and commit murderous rampages, or is it that crazy people who are candidates for committing murderous rampages are more likely to be prescribed psychiatric drugs?"

Amitriptyline, Thorazine.  Article says, “Amitriptyline, an antidepressant, as well as the antipsychotic drug Thorazine.”

i take a small pill every night, Amitriptylne.  I couldn't function, couldn't walk, without it.  When I had pain over my whole body, couldn't put on clothes due to the whole body pain - wore a robe every day.  Then, the pain hit my feet, and I could barely walk.  Went to a neurologist, hobbling with a cane.  I thought something terrible was wrong with me.  Neurologist did some tests, including putting needles down my entire left side from my shoulder down through my left foot and putting electricity into the muscles to see how much electricity it took to move muscles.  This was a painful test.  Then, he said, "I can fix this."  I didn't believe him.  He gave me a script for Amitriptyline.  I said, "We give this to patients with depression."  He said, "Yes, in larger amounts. We have discovered, in small amounts, it cuts down extra electricity in the brain that is sent to muscles and that is why they hurt."  This is fibromyalgia. I still didn't believe this little pill was going to 'fix" me.

I took it for three days, and went outside and washed my car.  That little pill fixed my problem, gave me my life back.  I have not missed taking that little pill at night since this happened, in about 2000.  It also helps as a sleeping aid.

I also have Thorazine pills.  I am extremely allergic to iodine in any form.  If I accidentally eat something with iodine in it, as in shell fish or something cooked with along with shell fish, I have terrible nausea, red skin, my skin burns and I have chills - this lasts three days.  One Thorazine pill knocks me out and when I wake up, the nausea is gone, and the chills are gone. I am never without Thorazine pills in my purse.  I prefer not to eat in a fish restaurant, afraid fresh water fish will be cooked along with shell fish.

So, I use these antidepressant, antipsychotic, treating pills for a reason not related to their principle use.  I have felt no side effects with either of these pills.  One stops muscle pain and the other stops nausea, chills, that is all they do in the amounts I take.

In the context of this article, "crazy" people may be on these drugs but they are still crazy and likely to act out of their mental problem, rather than the pills "making" them act.  Also, if they take more of the pills than they should, who knows what they will do.  For a young person being on these drugs, they should be monitored by an adult to be sure they are taking the drugs in the right amount at the right time each day.  The young man who killed these people, if he was on a drug such as these, someone should be monitoring him and no one was.  I doubt he was going to a doctor to get such a prescription - he was by himself, living with a family who had taken him in.  His life was not organized, his mother died a few months ago, and he was on his own until this family took him in.  More information about this family and how he reacted to them, will come out and we will know more - whether he was on pills or not.

I am also wondering if he had money - like insurance money from his mother's death - where did he get the money to buy these weapons?  That assault rifle and other weapons he had, cost real money - how did he have that money?
 

[Sanguine]

@Sanguine
@mystery-ak
@Freya 

The article said, "Of course, also relating to correlation, there’s a chicken-or-egg question here: Is it that taking psychiatric drugs makes a person more likely to go crazy and commit murderous rampages, or is it that crazy people who are candidates for committing murderous rampages are more likely to be prescribed psychiatric drugs?"

Amitriptyline, Thorazine.  Article says, “Amitriptyline, an antidepressant, as well as the antipsychotic drug Thorazine.”

i take a small pill every night, Amitriptylne.  I couldn't function, couldn't walk, without it.  When I had pain over my whole body, couldn't put on clothes due to the whole body pain - wore a robe every day.  Then, the pain hit my feet, and I could barely walk.  Went to a neurologist, hobbling with a cane.  I thought something terrible was wrong with me.  Neurologist did some tests, including putting needles down my entire left side from my shoulder down through my left foot and putting electricity into the muscles to see how much electricity it took to move muscles.  This was a painful test.  Then, he said, "I can fix this."  I didn't believe him.  He gave me a script for Amitriptyline.  I said, "We give this to patients with depression."  He said, "Yes, in larger amounts. We have discovered, in small amounts, it cuts down extra electricity in the brain that is sent to muscles and that is why they hurt."  This is fibromyalgia. I still didn't believe this little pill was going to 'fix" me.

I took it for three days, and went outside and washed my car.  That little pill fixed my problem, gave me my life back.  I have not missed taking that little pill at night since this happened, in about 2000.  It also helps as a sleeping aid.

I also have Thorazine pills.  I am extremely allergic to iodine in any form.  If I accidentally eat something with iodine in it, as in shell fish or something cooked with along with shell fish, I have terrible nausea, red skin, my skin burns and I have chills - this lasts three days.  One Thorazine pill knocks me out and when I wake up, the nausea is gone, and the chills are gone. I am never without Thorazine pills in my purse.  I prefer not to eat in a fish restaurant, afraid fresh water fish will be cooked along with shell fish.

So, I use these antidepressant, antipsychotic, treating pills for a reason not related to their principle use.  I have felt no side effects with either of these pills.  One stops muscle pain and the other stops nausea, chills, that is all they do in the amounts I take.

In the context of this article, "crazy" people may be on these drugs but they are still crazy and likely to act out of their mental problem, rather than the pills "making" them act.  Also, if they take more of the pills than they should, who knows what they will do.  For a young person being on these drugs, they should be monitored by an adult to be sure they are taking the drugs in the right amount at the right time each day.  The young man who killed these people, if he was on a drug such as these, someone should be monitoring him and no one was.  I doubt he was going to a doctor to get such a prescription - he was by himself, living with a family who had taken him in.  His life was not organized, his mother died a few months ago, and he was on his own until this family took him in.  More information about this family and how he reacted to them, will come out and we will know more - whether he was on pills or not.

I am also wondering if he had money - like insurance money from his mother's death - where did he get the money to buy these weapons?  That assault rifle and other weapons he had, cost real money - how did he have that money?

Victoria, good input.  As for the money, I understood that he had a small job, so would have had some money.

And, regarding the meds, we just don't know enough at this point to have a good opinion. 

[Restored]

Pain is all in the brain. That's why an amputated limb can still hurt.

In many of these shootings, the shooter came off the drugs and had a psychotic episode. But school shooters rarely have a motive which is very disturbing. They are willing to kill and die for....nothing.

[mountaineer]

Thank you so much for that account @Victoria33 . I was just prescribed the smallest possible dose of amitriptyline to help me sleep, as hip and knee pain kept me awake. The last thing I wanted was an anti-depressant, as I didn't want that "label" in my medical file. Would the feds see I was on an anti-depressant and use that to take away my guns, I wondered? Well, perhaps had HRC been elected president, but I certainly hope not. As it turns out, I may have found the right formulation of NSAIDs to knock the pain out, and I've slept the past two nights without pain. Perhaps I'll no longer need the amitriptyline, after all. But it's good to know it's an option, even for the non-depressed!


I just came across this article from 2015:

There’s a Way to Stop Mass Shootings, and You Won’t Like It.
Rob Myers
Source

There’s a Way to Stop Mass Shootings, and You Won’t Like It.

That’s right. You’re not going to like it because it’s going to require you to do something personally, as opposed to shouting for the government, or anyone to “do something!”

You ready? Here it is:

“Notice those around you who seem isolated, and engage them.”

If every one of us did this we’d have a culture that was deeply committed to ensuring no one was left lonely. And make no mistake, as I’ve written before loneliness is what causes these shooters to lash out. People with solid connections to other people don’t indiscriminately fire guns at strangers.  ...

...  I can tell you the things that aren’t going to work in this country when it comes to stopping these heinous acts. But they seem to be all anyone says, when inevitably, another person comes forward to inflict their tortured pain on innocent people.

    1. Ban All Guns!   ...  [I've excerpted all of his bullet points - go to link to read his exposition]
    2. Ban All Guns! (pt. 2) ...
    3. Ban Scary Guns Like the AR-15!  ...
    4. Keep Them Out of the Hands of Bad People! ...
    5. Do Something About Mental Health!  ...
    6. DO Something!! ...

If you can’t tell by this point in the list, there is NOTHING the government or any other organization can do to prevent these events.   ...

Read more

[bigheadfred]

Victoria, good input.  As for the money, I understood that he had a small job, so would have had some money.

And, regarding the meds, we just don't know enough at this point to have a good opinion.

@Victoria33

I admit it. I take a small dose of an SSRI. The past two months at work have been grueling. And I burn hot. Meaning more stress makes me work harder. And for some reason it makes me angry, so I work even harder. Without that pill I turn into a complete azz. Not that any of you would have noticed. A larger dose doesn't help my mental state, but it makes me feel like I am vibrating. I also know I am burned out now. I can drink a pot of strong coffee and go right back to bed and sleep. Power is out at work right now so I came home until they get it fixed. I don't care if they get it fixed today.

[bigheadfred]

I was talking to a friend about this. He told me a doctor recommended that if you are feeling lonely, isolated, depressed than try to become more social. He said one of the best ways to do that was to go to church.

[mountaineer]

I was talking to a friend about this. He told me a doctor recommended that if you are feeling lonely, isolated, depressed than try to become more social. He said one of the best ways to do that was to go to church.

There's something to that. When I moved to a new city, I started attending the local church and eventually joined the choir. Good fellowship there. My brother is deeply depressed, but he refuses to engage with anyone - except his bartender. 

[driftdiver]

Pain is all in the brain. That's why an amputated limb can still hurt.

In many of these shootings, the shooter came off the drugs and had a psychotic episode. But school shooters rarely have a motive which is very disturbing. They are willing to kill and die for....nothing.

@Restored
They aren't dying for 'nothing'.  Everyone knows their name, their picture is on TV, they are "important"

Not all of them but most.   They are taking the pain they feeling and forcing others to feel it.  They are also going down in a blaze of glory and everyone will know their name.

[Sanguine]

I was talking to a friend about this. He told me a doctor recommended that if you are feeling lonely, isolated, depressed than try to become more social. He said one of the best ways to do that was to go to church.

That's a good suggestion. 

[bigheadfred]

That's a good suggestion.

Just like anything it isn't going to be for everyone. Some people aren't going to be fixed. There are those that go to church just to murder people.

Anyone remember this drug-- mefloquine hydrochloride? Given to our troops to prevent Malaria. How many other drugs out there may be causing psych problems, even though they are FDA approved? Or combinations of drugs causing psych problems as side effects. I wouldn't trust the FDA or big pharma to admit to anything.

[goatprairie]

Just like anything it isn't going to be for everyone. Some people aren't going to be fixed. There are those that go to church just to murder people.

Anyone remember this drug-- mefloquine hydrochloride? Given to our troops to prevent Malaria. How many other drugs out there may be causing psych problems, even though they are FDA approved? Or combinations of drugs causing psych problems as side effects. I wouldn't trust the FDA or big pharma to admit to anything.

"Some people aren't going to be fixed"

Well, that's just it...no matter what measures are taken, there are going to be killers/mass murderers.  If they can't get a gun, they'll get into an automobile and wait for a crowd to form somewhere. Or they'll find some other way to kill.
Of course, as we all know what libs really want is the complete confiscation of all firearms. That won't happen. There will be a civil war first and not just a mostly talking one like we have now.

[truth_seeker]

My brother is deeply depressed, but he refuses to engage with anyone - except his bartender. 

Yes, alcohol is a depressant, and it works. 

Good mental health practitioners will first tell the patient to quit drinking.

Others will prescribe drugs. (on top of the alcohol)

Many will NOT stop using alcohol, or drugs.

My AA sponsor (worked in substance treatment for years) said the main purpose of such treatment, is to separate the subject from the substance.

e.g. to help people that can't stop on their own.

Maybe your brother needs a professional/family intervention, complete with detox/inpatient stay etc. Covered by Obamacare, BTW. In fact required under "essential health benefits."

[mountaineer]

Maybe your brother needs a professional/family intervention, complete with detox/inpatient stay etc. Covered by Obamacare, BTW. In fact required under "essential health benefits."

We already did that. I spent hours on the phone with his former insurance company in order to get him reinstated to cover the rehab.

 He got drunk the day he was released after 30 days of inpatient alcohol rehab at a reputable facility. He's since detoxed at least twice and been treated at a hospital. He generally stays sober a few days, then relapses. He even failed to attend his beloved uncle's funeral last month. My cousins wanted him to play the piano at the funeral home (he has a music degree), but he didn't show. Thankfully, my sister (professional musician) and I were able to pick up the slack.

He finally got his first DUI a week or so ago.