Author Topic: BREAKING>> Active Shooter Florida High School... Developing... Multiple victims...  (Read 24172 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline TomSea

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 40,432
  • Gender: Male
  • All deserve a trial if accused
They hauled in at least, one more youth in the state who acted like he had plans or at least, was taunting.

Offline thackney

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,267
  • Gender: Male
Yes, the inner cities are the ones that really need some kick start toward reaching maturity, and a military bent is a damn good way to make it happen.

Did you notice article says these kids herded both students and teachers?  That shows maturity.

Interesting choice of words for our experience (although it was suburban, not inner for us)

https://www.kickstartkids.org/

We use karate to teach character building values to students in public schools. Studies show our program gives young people the tools and support needed to resist negative peer pressure, avoid self-destructive behaviors, and make responsible decisions. KICKSTART KIDS improves children’s lives, in the classroom and in life, by engaging students’ heart, head, and hands. Our goal is to positively influence the whole child for the life of the child and help create safer, healthier, and more productive communities.

Life is fragile, handle with prayer

Offline LauraTXNM

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,661
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history.
Interesting choice of words for our experience (although it was suburban, not inner for us)

https://www.kickstartkids.org/

We use karate to teach character building values to students in public schools. Studies show our program gives young people the tools and support needed to resist negative peer pressure, avoid self-destructive behaviors, and make responsible decisions. KICKSTART KIDS improves children’s lives, in the classroom and in life, by engaging students’ heart, head, and hands. Our goal is to positively influence the whole child for the life of the child and help create safer, healthier, and more productive communities.



This sounds like a great program.  Plus Chuck Norris!!!
Micah 6:8  "...what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?"

Disclaimer: I am a liberal, progressive, feminist, here because I like talking to you all.  We're all this together.

Online Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,671
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Thanks for posting. Stuff like this is usually best looked back into After other info is released.

Good to have it on file.
http://startpage.lenovo.com/news/read/article/the_associated_press-calls_for_gun_control_grow_louder_after_florida_sh-ap/category/news

Quote
On Sept. 28, 2016, an investigator from the Florida Department of Children and Families visited Cruz and his mother, Lynda Cruz, after he posted video on Snapchat showing him cutting himself. The report showed that Cruz had written a racial epithet against African-Americans and a Nazi symbol on his book bag, which his mother had forced him to erase. The investigator said Cruz was suffering from depression and on medication and had told Lynda Cruz he planned to buy a gun, but she couldn't determine why.

She said he had been depressed after breaking up with a girlfriend who had been cheating on him, the investigator said. A school counselor told the investigator that Lynda Cruz had always tried to help her son and followed through on his therapy and medication, but the counselor was concerned about the youth's desire to buy a gun.

A crisis counselor told the DCF investigator he had visited the school and that he did not believe Cruz was a danger to himself or others. The case was closed, with the investigator concluding that Cruz was receiving help from his mother and counselors, and "no other referrals or services were needed."

Oops.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline driftdiver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,897
  • Gender: Male
  • I could eat it raw but why when I have fire
Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.

Online Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,671
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
I think it is a terrible mistake to have a student that will not or cannot meet basic behavior requirements to remain in mainstream school.  Is there going to be constant supervision for the rest of his life?
They were there before. Before "no child left behind", the classes in larger schools were divided by standardized test scores, with those who grouped similarly in the same class sections. Those with behavioural disorders and low scores tended to be in the same group, and as such were not mainstream but in the same school, just with less interaction with the more academically successful students. But that was in the days when those with notable violent tendencies were more likely to be institutionalized before they went on a rampage.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline mountaineer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 78,718
Even today in my school district,  the behavioral problem children are segregated in "autism" classrooms.  I believe that isn't done post-elementary level,  however ( thus putting other students and teachers at risk).
Support Israel's emergency medical service. afmda.org

Online Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,671
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
@Smokin Joe

His mom died a few months ago
Note the date of the interview, Sept of 2016. If his mom died in the meantime, who was keeping an eye on him or his meds? What were those meds?Had he quit them on his own (not generally recommended because of the long list of serious effects from withdrawal, depending on the medication).
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 80,119
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Note the date of the interview, Sept of 2016. If his mom died in the meantime, who was keeping an eye on him or his meds? What were those meds?Had he quit them on his own (not generally recommended because of the long list of serious effects from withdrawal, depending on the medication).

I understand he was living at a friend's house.  His friend's mom was shocked she had a monster living in her home.

I never considered owning a Sport Rifle before, but I'm starting to look around now.  I looked at a nice one chambered in 9mm this morning, with a lazer sight.  Very reasonably priced, and I have a crapton of 9mm ammo.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Online Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,671
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
I understand he was living at a friend's house.  His friend's mom was shocked she had a monster living in her home.
Which means his mental health issues were completely unsupervised, most likely. (He was likely off his meds.)

Quote
I never considered owning a Sport Rifle before, but I'm starting to look around now.  I looked at a nice one chambered in 9mm this morning, with a lazer sight.  Very reasonably priced, and I have a crapton of 9mm ammo.
Nine mm is nice for house work, can be loaded with subsonic ammo and suppressed as well. If you are using it for defense, check out frangible rounds for high energy transfer to the target and less likely multi wall penetration in the event of a miss (fewer through and through wounds as well). If you are carrying it outside, you may want different ammo in the mag with a little more muzzle velocity and penetration, say hollow points which are higher velocity than the subsonic rounds. The MP5 got a lot of agencies by for a long time (and still may be in use).
« Last Edit: February 18, 2018, 08:19:37 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 80,119
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Which means his mental health issues were completely unsupervised, most likely. (He was likely off his meds.)
Nine mm is nice for house work, can be loaded with subsonic ammo and suppressed as well. If you are using it for defense, check out frangible rounds for high energy transfer to the target and less likely multi wall penetration in the event of a miss (fewer through and through wounds as well). If you are carrying it outside, you may want different ammo in the mag with a little more muzzle velocity and penetration, say hollow points which are higher velocity than the subsonic rounds. The MP5 got a lot of agencies by for a long time (and still may be in use).

Yeah, I was thinking house gun, I already have that ammo for my 9mm semi-auto handguns.  Not a lot of use for a lazer site outside.  I have a nice .45 LC long gun for mid-range outdoor use, iron sights.  I don't have a high-power deer rifle, no point to it while living in the 'Burbs, but after I retire outside of the city I'd like to get one with a nice scope, either .308 or 30-06.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2018, 09:51:06 pm by Cyber Liberty »
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline LauraTXNM

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,661
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history.
Even today in my school district,  the behavioral problem children are segregated in "autism" classrooms.  I believe that isn't done post-elementary level,  however ( thus putting other students and teachers at risk).

One big problem is putting behavior-problem students in with autustic, Down’s Syndrome, and intellectually disabled students.  Kids with anger and discipline problems should be in an SED (severely emotionally disturbed) classroom.  But everyone hesitates to label a kid as SED because it has lifelong consequences.   It makes it hard to join the military or law enforcement.
Micah 6:8  "...what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?"

Disclaimer: I am a liberal, progressive, feminist, here because I like talking to you all.  We're all this together.

Offline Sanguine

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,986
  • Gender: Female
  • Ex-member
One big problem is putting behavior-problem students in with autustic, Down’s Syndrome, and intellectually disabled students.  Kids with anger and discipline problems should be in an SED (severely emotionally disturbed) classroom.  But everyone hesitates to label a kid as SED because it has lifelong consequences.   It makes it hard to join the military or law enforcement.

As it probably should.

Offline LauraTXNM

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,661
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history.
As it probably should.

Yes, but because they know it will have consequences, SpecEd staff hesitate to designate kids even when they probably should. 

This  shooter was  in JROTC and on their competitive shooting team.  They were probably trying to turn him around.   I would argue that with all the violence he exhibited toward animals, in this instance was doomed to failure.  But SED would have made it impossible in any case. 
Micah 6:8  "...what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?"

Disclaimer: I am a liberal, progressive, feminist, here because I like talking to you all.  We're all this together.

Offline Sanguine

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,986
  • Gender: Female
  • Ex-member
Yes, but because they know it will have consequences, SpecEd staff hesitate to designate kids even when they probably should. 

This  shooter was  in JROTC and on their competitive shooting team.  They were probably trying to turn him around.   I would argue that with all the violence he exhibited toward animals, in this instance was doomed to failure.  But SED would have made it impossible in any case.

Yep.  And, we're going to keep having avoidable killings because of that sort of "hesitation".

Offline truth_seeker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,386
  • Gender: Male
  • Common Sense Results Oriented Conservative Veteran
Being "bipolar" is almost a status symbol among some young people.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline LauraTXNM

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,661
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history.
Yep.  And, we're going to keep having avoidable killings because of that sort of "hesitation".

Exactly! ;(
Micah 6:8  "...what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?"

Disclaimer: I am a liberal, progressive, feminist, here because I like talking to you all.  We're all this together.

Online GtHawk

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,769
  • Gender: Male
  • I don't believe in Trump anymore, he's an illusion
Really interesting!  Are you still in LA/OC?
Yes
« Last Edit: February 18, 2018, 11:58:21 pm by GtHawk »

Online GtHawk

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,769
  • Gender: Male
  • I don't believe in Trump anymore, he's an illusion
Exactly. Rather than dealing with difficult behavior problems it’s much easier to reach for the prescription pad and voilà, problem solved.
Of this I can speak with experience, yes many children are misdiagnosed and drugged by shysters and lazy so called professionals. But ADD/ADHD is real, and there are children that are greatly assisted by Ritalin, not to help the teacher or it shouldn't be, but as a tool to help the child train themselves when it is used correctly. My son was identified as ADHD when he was in first grade by one of the true professionals working in the field. He prescribed Ritalin and counseling and we used Ritalin only on his worst days at school, never at home. As ADHD children grow they learn to control their impulses and are usually very intelligent and talented. I never agreed nor do I now with drugging a child to control them.

Offline mountaineer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 78,718
Perhaps someone else has posted this, but I just came across it:
Quote
Here’s Why Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School Never Reported Nikolas Cruz to the Police
by Luis Valdes |
Feb 16, 2018

Nikolas Cruz was a known threat. Known by the administrators of the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School. It’s a clear case where a known dangerous student was not reported to the police. Why?

Because back in 2013, the Broward County School Board adopted a program where they don’t relay information to police about troubled students.

NPR reported in Fla. School District Trying To Curb School-To-Prison Pipeline:
Quote
    It’s a move away from so-called “zero tolerance” policies that require schools to refer even minor misdemeanors to the police. Critics call it a “school to prison pipeline.”

    Under a new program adopted by the Broward County School District, non-violent misdemeanors — even those that involve alcohol, marijuana or drug paraphernalia — will now be handled by the schools instead of the police.

Cruz was banned from carrying a backpack at school after bullets were found in his backpack. Cruz was expelled from MSD last year after a fight with his ex-girlfriend’s new boyfriend.

Non-violent misdemeanors? Even so, red flags were flying.

Again, the Broward County School Board has an official policy requiring that they don’t tell the police about non-violent incidents with troubled youth.   ...
Rest of article at The Truth About Guns
Support Israel's emergency medical service. afmda.org

Offline verga

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,706
  • Gender: Male
Of this I can speak with experience, yes many children are misdiagnosed and drugged by shysters and lazy so called professionals. But ADD/ADHD is real, and there are children that are greatly assisted by Ritalin, not to help the teacher or it shouldn't be, but as a tool to help the child train themselves when it is used correctly. My son was identified as ADHD when he was in first grade by one of the true professionals working in the field. He prescribed Ritalin and counseling and we used Ritalin only on his worst days at school, never at home. As ADHD children grow they learn to control their impulses and are usually very intelligent and talented. I never agreed nor do I now with drugging a child to control them.
@GtHawk 20+ years ago I taught at an alternative school I had a student (I'll call him Bob) whose mother regularly either forgot to give him his meds or would run out. Every day I would great him as he came in, "Hello Bob" . If he said hello back it was probably going to be a good day. On the other hand if the reply was "Hiddly Ho big guy how are they hanging" I wold offer him the opportunity to go right to time out. I still maintain that some children desperately need their meds, for others it is for the convenience of either the parents or teachers. When we had out one foster son I did not give him medication during the summer or extended holidays. Yes there were some very difficult days.
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
�More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly.�-Woody Allen
If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken him completely by surprise.

Offline verga

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,706
  • Gender: Male
Perhaps someone else has posted this, but I just came across it:
Cruz was banned from carrying a backpack at school after bullets were found in his backpack. Cruz was expelled from MSD last year after a fight with his ex-girlfriend’s new boyfriend.

Non-violent misdemeanors? Even so, red flags were flying.

Again, the Broward County School Board has an official policy requiring that they don’t tell the police about non-violent incidents with troubled youth.   ...Rest of article at The Truth About Guns
This is the exact same policy that kept Trayvon Martin in school after he had been caught robbing lockers and in possession f stolen jewelry, etc... Very easy for board members to make these policies and not see the unintended consequences of their actions.
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
�More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly.�-Woody Allen
If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken him completely by surprise.

Online Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,671
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
This is the exact same policy that kept Trayvon Martin in school after he had been caught robbing lockers and in possession f stolen jewelry, etc... Very easy for board members to make these policies and not see the unintended consequences of their actions.
Similarly, those calling for single access points for schools here may not have considered the ramifications of funneling hundreds or even a couple thousand students through that access point simultaneously as school starts or lets out, or worse yet, in an emergency. Even gophers have enough sense to have a back door.
My first High School (not in ND, needless to say) was only 1400 students, but all but one door had been chained and locked shut to limit access to the building during ongoing race riots, in direct and conspicuous violation of fire codes. That's when the bomb threats started coming in.
Despite that unrest (late '60s/early'70s), there were no mass shootings.

What changed, culturally? Both sides in that era had been raised in families and even schools where prayer started the day, along with The Pledge of Allegiance. Violence on television and even in the movies (movies were rated 'X' for violence, not just sexual content and profanity--the "TV MA" rating group today would have qualified) was not graphic, life was considered sacred, and every child was at least exposed to the idea of a God who  would ultimately judge their actions. For those who would argue that there were no AR-15s around, I will only state that a M1 carbine was a popular rifle, lightweight, and came with 30 round magazines, too. IOW, while the tools were not so intimidating in appearance as today's black sporting rifles, they were just as capable at ranges inside 100 yards. But those who had exposure to firearms, had had so from fathers, uncles, and others who had been in or close to combat, be it WWII or Korea, or even WWI, men who were men of peace because they had been men at war. The concepts of Chivalry (OMG! SEXISM!) and Honor were still prized in a culture that believed all were equal in the eyes of God. And as for 'gun control', the Form 4473 was still new, and most guns in private hands had been purchased, often by mail order, without background checks, no NICS, no databases, only at the discretion of the seller, and military surplus arms were quite common. Some pre-NFA (1934) firearms were still floating around, just not so commonly seen. Mass shootings were still rare outside of warfare (why the St. Valentine's Day Massacre was such a headline-getter) and commonly linked to organized crime.

The idea of "senseless killing" was something fresh in the minds of those who had been in WWII; millions had died in the death camps and massacres in Europe and Asia, but not something which fit in in America. If you were going to risk the electric chair, the rope, the gas chamber, or the firing squad, you were going to have a solid reason for wanting someone dead. Just killing someone for no reason that you didn't know wasn't a consideration, much less women and children.

Since then, the Marxists in our society have been on a serious campaign to not only eliminate The Almighty from our zeitgeist, but to eliminate the concepts of chivalry, honor, integrity, and fundamental morality as well. Unfortunately, they have been wildly successful at sowing the seeds of that libertine self-destruction, and continue to do so to this day. More children, our own children, will never see the light of day, not at the hands of some enemy, but because of a slaughter proclaimed a 'right' to be free of the responsibility to raise them, something abdicated to the ministrations of a government interested in control of the masses, not the quality of the outcome.

What we are seeing is not the result of newer and more improved hardware--the tools of the infantryman in WWII were fully adequate to the task of taking lives, and doing so in large numbers and even from a distance--it is a result of a sickness imposed on our culture through media exposure to evil and the exclusion of the very universal concepts that made this country great. 

If we truly want to "Make America Great Again" it is time to reconsider the road we are on.
We have people howling about school shootings, but this is just a symptom, not the malady.

In my youth the following were generally unthinkable:

Killing someone for no reason, especially a bunch of people.
Beating your wife/kid/dog/horse. The last three could be disciplined, but special stigma was attached to anyone who beat his wife (men did not strike ladies), or who excessively harmed the last three. Corporal punishment was commonplace, but limited in intensity, and administered with a dispassionate, often reluctant mien (as opposed to a mean mien).

Torture of animals or people.

Rape (still had the death penalty as a possibility when I was a kid, and that isn't counting what would happen if the family caught the perp first).

Abortion.

Drugs for recreational use, especially hard drugs, IV drugs.
(The big three culturally acceptable drugs were coffee, tobacco, and alcohol, in moderation, and some folks didn't use any of them.)
 
Letting anyone come in your home and take your children under any pretense.

Letting anyone routinely monitor your private communications, be they business or personal.

Harming a child (not disciplining, not corporal punishment, but serious physical harm or mental torture), or, for that matter, mistreating an animal. Varmints and sick/injured animals were dispatched promptly.

Hitting a woman, except in the most unusual circumstance of self-defense.

Placing the lives of wild animals above the lives or livelihoods of people, but not to include killing them for no reason.

Wasting any resource (a holdover from the Great Depression, and even leaner times before that).

Stealing.

Cussing in public, but especially in front of women (the 'mixed company' taboo--in front of children was considered socially unacceptable as well).

Sexual Promiscuity or Homosexuality. (We knew of it, it existed, but it was not in evidence, much less pouring out of television sets into living rooms across the country). Far from being celebrated, both were spoken of with derision and not in front of the children.

To not respect our elders. (This is a fundamental fabrication of the Marxists who want, ultimately, State control of children, in that it disrupts cultural continuity.

From the creation of the 'generation gap' to labeling each successive generation (or decade) as some letter or with a name to make people think there is no common and linking thread, but instead some sort of adversarial relationship between youth and those older, right down to modifying fundamental curricula to the point parents can't even help children with homework, is all designed to disrupt the ordinary cultural flow which binds a people together, and in this case, the conveyance of the concepts of Liberty, responsibility, and morality, which form the essence of our culture.
Leaving successive generations without a cultural rudder or a moral compass makes them vulnerable to exploitation, especially when the values which are to be summarily discarded are those which are the fundamental concepts of an entire republic and way of life.)

Sex education in any formal context before tenth grade health class. Puberty is distracting enough, but by focusing attention on sex at an early age, not only are children deprived of childhood, but taught to think of each other not in terms of person and personality, but as potential sexual partners first. This is exactly the opposite of the whole idea of not being 'sex objects' because it makes everyone one (or rejected as one) and takes the focus off of personal development and puts it on the rut. While there are those who proclaim it "liberating", in actuality, it is dehumanizing and takes the focus off of personality development and places it on more superficial objectification.

It isn't hard to see that many of the stated goals of those who would change our society (and have done so) are in direct conflict with other stated goals, but the end game in all this confusion is the destruction of the culture which stepped into two world wars and ended them, one which has survived its hard knocks, and come out on top. Keeping in mind that the Marxists and others who would 'rule the world' view their aims with the religious fervor many Americans used to view The Almighty with, there will be no lack of evil influence on our culture.

Had I been told in 1965 that the day would come when tobacco was all but banned, but marijuana was being asserted to be legal (as a government revenue generator) I would have scoffed at such dystopian fiction. After watching people in shock (from an event or injury) reach for a cigarette to help get a grip or find relief, and being subsequently told that there were no beneficial effects of tobacco (peripheral vasoconstrictor which offsets shock), I would have laughed. Yet here we are.

If I had been told that the promiscuity which populated Huxley's Brave New World would become reality, and more, that it would be celebrated in culture, song, and media, and proclaimed protected by law, even to ignore and foster the spread of a deadly disease, I would have scoffed, claiming that cooler heads would prevail.

If I had been told that language I never heard my parents use would become so commonplace as to pour from my TV, I would have dismissed the teller as 'nuts'.

And had I been told that this country would eventually rack up a body count of murdered babies that would exceed any nation's death camps of WWII or purges, I would have believed it impossible.

Yet, here we are.

And if someone wants to blame a piece of hardware for the lunatic actions of a person produced by such a culture, perhaps it is because it is easier to put a bandage on the boil than to admit the festering corruption that produced it. Our society has become gravely ill, and this shooter is just one symptom.

At every level, from mental health, to disciplinary, to communications between the school and LEOs, to the inaction of LEOs when the information was there, the system that claims if we just give up one more right it will be enough (this time, until the mechanisms in place fail again), failed to prevent this event.

Imposition of control from outside is no solution, only a band aid. Curing the cultural rot that has taken root is the only way to prevent such events in the future, to make them unthinkable acts. We are a long way from that, especially if we won't even diagnose the infection. It is the ultimate abdication of responsibility to blame the tool, rather than the person that wielded it, and the culture that produced that person.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Idiot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,631
Similarly, those calling for single access points for schools here may not have considered the ramifications of funneling hundreds or even a couple thousand students through that access point simultaneously as school starts or lets out, or worse yet, in an emergency. Even gophers have enough sense to have a back door.
My first High School (not in ND, needless to say) was only 1400 students, but all but one door had been chained and locked shut to limit access to the building during ongoing race riots, in direct and conspicuous violation of fire codes. That's when the bomb threats started coming in.
Despite that unrest (late '60s/early'70s), there were no mass shootings.

What changed, culturally? Both sides in that era had been raised in families and even schools where prayer started the day, along with The Pledge of Allegiance. Violence on television and even in the movies (movies were rated 'X' for violence, not just sexual content and profanity--the "TV MA" rating group today would have qualified) was not graphic, life was considered sacred, and every child was at least exposed to the idea of a God who  would ultimately judge their actions. For those who would argue that there were no AR-15s around, I will only state that a M1 carbine was a popular rifle, lightweight, and came with 30 round magazines, too. IOW, while the tools were not so intimidating in appearance as today's black sporting rifles, they were just as capable at ranges inside 100 yards. But those who had exposure to firearms, had had so from fathers, uncles, and others who had been in or close to combat, be it WWII or Korea, or even WWI, men who were men of peace because they had been men at war. The concepts of Chivalry (OMG! SEXISM!) and Honor were still prized in a culture that believed all were equal in the eyes of God. And as for 'gun control', the Form 4473 was still new, and most guns in private hands had been purchased, often by mail order, without background checks, no NICS, no databases, only at the discretion of the seller, and military surplus arms were quite common. Some pre-NFA (1934) firearms were still floating around, just not so commonly seen. Mass shootings were still rare outside of warfare (why the St. Valentine's Day Massacre was such a headline-getter) and commonly linked to organized crime.

The idea of "senseless killing" was something fresh in the minds of those who had been in WWII; millions had died in the death camps and massacres in Europe and Asia, but not something which fit in in America. If you were going to risk the electric chair, the rope, the gas chamber, or the firing squad, you were going to have a solid reason for wanting someone dead. Just killing someone for no reason that you didn't know wasn't a consideration, much less women and children.

Since then, the Marxists in our society have been on a serious campaign to not only eliminate The Almighty from our zeitgeist, but to eliminate the concepts of chivalry, honor, integrity, and fundamental morality as well. Unfortunately, they have been wildly successful at sowing the seeds of that libertine self-destruction, and continue to do so to this day. More children, our own children, will never see the light of day, not at the hands of some enemy, but because of a slaughter proclaimed a 'right' to be free of the responsibility to raise them, something abdicated to the ministrations of a government interested in control of the masses, not the quality of the outcome.

What we are seeing is not the result of newer and more improved hardware--the tools of the infantryman in WWII were fully adequate to the task of taking lives, and doing so in large numbers and even from a distance--it is a result of a sickness imposed on our culture through media exposure to evil and the exclusion of the very universal concepts that made this country great. 

If we truly want to "Make America Great Again" it is time to reconsider the road we are on.
We have people howling about school shootings, but this is just a symptom, not the malady.

In my youth the following were generally unthinkable:

Killing someone for no reason, especially a bunch of people.
Beating your wife/kid/dog/horse. The last three could be disciplined, but special stigma was attached to anyone who beat his wife (men did not strike ladies), or who excessively harmed the last three. Corporal punishment was commonplace, but limited in intensity, and administered with a dispassionate, often reluctant mien (as opposed to a mean mien).

Torture of animals or people.

Rape (still had the death penalty as a possibility when I was a kid, and that isn't counting what would happen if the family caught the perp first).

Abortion.

Drugs for recreational use, especially hard drugs, IV drugs.
(The big three culturally acceptable drugs were coffee, tobacco, and alcohol, in moderation, and some folks didn't use any of them.)
 
Letting anyone come in your home and take your children under any pretense.

Letting anyone routinely monitor your private communications, be they business or personal.

Harming a child (not disciplining, not corporal punishment, but serious physical harm or mental torture), or, for that matter, mistreating an animal. Varmints and sick/injured animals were dispatched promptly.

Hitting a woman, except in the most unusual circumstance of self-defense.

Placing the lives of wild animals above the lives or livelihoods of people, but not to include killing them for no reason.

Wasting any resource (a holdover from the Great Depression, and even leaner times before that).

Stealing.

Cussing in public, but especially in front of women (the 'mixed company' taboo--in front of children was considered socially unacceptable as well).

Sexual Promiscuity or Homosexuality. (We knew of it, it existed, but it was not in evidence, much less pouring out of television sets into living rooms across the country). Far from being celebrated, both were spoken of with derision and not in front of the children.

To not respect our elders. (This is a fundamental fabrication of the Marxists who want, ultimately, State control of children, in that it disrupts cultural continuity.

From the creation of the 'generation gap' to labeling each successive generation (or decade) as some letter or with a name to make people think there is no common and linking thread, but instead some sort of adversarial relationship between youth and those older, right down to modifying fundamental curricula to the point parents can't even help children with homework, is all designed to disrupt the ordinary cultural flow which binds a people together, and in this case, the conveyance of the concepts of Liberty, responsibility, and morality, which form the essence of our culture.
Leaving successive generations without a cultural rudder or a moral compass makes them vulnerable to exploitation, especially when the values which are to be summarily discarded are those which are the fundamental concepts of an entire republic and way of life.)

Sex education in any formal context before tenth grade health class. Puberty is distracting enough, but by focusing attention on sex at an early age, not only are children deprived of childhood, but taught to think of each other not in terms of person and personality, but as potential sexual partners first. This is exactly the opposite of the whole idea of not being 'sex objects' because it makes everyone one (or rejected as one) and takes the focus off of personal development and puts it on the rut. While there are those who proclaim it "liberating", in actuality, it is dehumanizing and takes the focus off of personality development and places it on more superficial objectification.

It isn't hard to see that many of the stated goals of those who would change our society (and have done so) are in direct conflict with other stated goals, but the end game in all this confusion is the destruction of the culture which stepped into two world wars and ended them, one which has survived its hard knocks, and come out on top. Keeping in mind that the Marxists and others who would 'rule the world' view their aims with the religious fervor many Americans used to view The Almighty with, there will be no lack of evil influence on our culture.

Had I been told in 1965 that the day would come when tobacco was all but banned, but marijuana was being asserted to be legal (as a government revenue generator) I would have scoffed at such dystopian fiction. After watching people in shock (from an event or injury) reach for a cigarette to help get a grip or find relief, and being subsequently told that there were no beneficial effects of tobacco (peripheral vasoconstrictor which offsets shock), I would have laughed. Yet here we are.

If I had been told that the promiscuity which populated Huxley's Brave New World would become reality, and more, that it would be celebrated in culture, song, and media, and proclaimed protected by law, even to ignore and foster the spread of a deadly disease, I would have scoffed, claiming that cooler heads would prevail.

If I had been told that language I never heard my parents use would become so commonplace as to pour from my TV, I would have dismissed the teller as 'nuts'.

And had I been told that this country would eventually rack up a body count of murdered babies that would exceed any nation's death camps of WWII or purges, I would have believed it impossible.

Yet, here we are.

And if someone wants to blame a piece of hardware for the lunatic actions of a person produced by such a culture, perhaps it is because it is easier to put a bandage on the boil than to admit the festering corruption that produced it. Our society has become gravely ill, and this shooter is just one symptom.

At every level, from mental health, to disciplinary, to communications between the school and LEOs, to the inaction of LEOs when the information was there, the system that claims if we just give up one more right it will be enough (this time, until the mechanisms in place fail again), failed to prevent this event.

Imposition of control from outside is no solution, only a band aid. Curing the cultural rot that has taken root is the only way to prevent such events in the future, to make them unthinkable acts. We are a long way from that, especially if we won't even diagnose the infection. It is the ultimate abdication of responsibility to blame the tool, rather than the person that wielded it, and the culture that produced that person.

Wow Joe!  That is like the post of the decade right there.  God bless you my friend! @Smokin Joe
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 06:34:58 pm by mrpotatohead »

Offline Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51,541
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
Here is what we need to be addressing here.  What do you do when a threat presents itself at a school?  Everything else is a total waste of time IMHO.

I don't care what motivates the shooter(s) at that point. All I want to do is stop them from doing what they are intent on doing!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien