Question of the Day: What Three Guns for Home Defense?

[Restored]

From my Conceal Carry class

1. Pump-action .410 shotgun, duck or goose load.
2. .357 Magnum revolver loaded with .38 special or .357 Magnum
3. 9mm or so automatic pistol.

They recommended things that wouldn't deafen or cause you to flinch when you fire. The .357 is for outside work. You also want to avoid killing everyone else in the house by penetrating sheet rock.

[roamer_1]

@roamer_1

IF you ever had to actually use it, the 00 spreads out too much but with the BBs no one will be testifying against you in court.

@Bigun
I should say that differently. You are right. I get it.

I don't like specialized shells. I like ordered ubiquity... I like being able to reach into the 5gal /00 bucket, fill my pockets, and go.  No busting boxes in the dark, no worry about what load is already in it, though it normally has bear loads in it (alternating /00 and slug)... But that'll do too from within the house interior. I won;t be missin with anything that close... See?

[Bigun]

From my Conceal Carry class

1. Pump-action .410 shotgun, duck or goose load.
2. .357 Magnum revolver loaded with .38 special or .357 Magnum
3. 9mm or so automatic pistol.

They recommended things that wouldn't deafen or cause you to flinch when you fire. The .357 is for outside work. You also want to avoid killing everyone else in the house by penetrating sheet rock.

@Restored

That last part is a VERY important consideration IMHO!

[driftdiver]

@Bigun
At +/- 25 ft, at a moving target, I'll take the spread. Nobody's going to be testifying anyway.

@roamer_1
For home defense there are a couple of considerations.   Accessibility and safety are part of the equation.   Are there young kids around?   Is theft a concern?

After those it becomes a question of ease of use for the individual, stopping power and over penetration.

The first two are obvious but over penetration is a major concern in many areas where the neighbors house is just a few feet away.   So unless  you want to kill the intruder and your neighbor 3 houses down standing behind his fridge you should think about what you are using.

The 12ga with 00 actually has quite a bit of penetration.   In some tests I've seen it would penetrate through 4 sheets of sheet rock set up as simulated walls.  Another video shows it going through 5 layers of plywood.  So not only could you hit your target but it could also go thru the wall, the next wall and into someone else living in the house.   

The 5.56 from an AR15 was the only round that didn't go thru all 4 layers.  The light round fragmented after 3 layers and didn't make it thru 4. 

Having said all that, my choices are:

1.  Mossberg 590A1 tactical 12ga parkerized with ghost ring sites loaded with 4 buck low recoil.   Holds 9 in the tube with an additional 4 in the stock.
2.  Any of my .45 but I prefer my glock m30 or sig 220, with JHP
3.  an ar-15

[Bigun]

@roamer_1
For home defense there are a couple of considerations.   Accessibility and safety are part of the equation.   Are there young kids around?   Is theft a concern?

After those it becomes a question of ease of use for the individual, stopping power and over penetration.

The first two are obvious but over penetration is a major concern in many areas where the neighbors house is just a few feet away.   So unless  you want to kill the intruder and your neighbor 3 houses down standing behind his fridge you should think about what you are using.

The 12ga with 00 actually has quite a bit of penetration.   In some tests I've seen it would penetrate through 4 sheets of sheet rock set up as simulated walls.  Another video shows it going through 5 layers of plywood.  So not only could you hit your target but it could also go thru the wall, the next wall and into someone else living in the house.   

The 5.56 from an AR15 was the only round that didn't go thru all 4 layers.  The light round fragmented after 3 layers and didn't make it thru 4. 

Having said all that, my choices are:

1.  Mossberg 590A1 tactical 12ga parkerized with ghost ring sites loaded with 4 buck low recoil.   Holds 9 in the tube with an additional 4 in the stock.
2.  Any of my .45 but I prefer my glock m30 or sig 220, with JHP
3.  an ar-15

9MM Ball ammo will penetrate several standard shetrock walls before it stops.  Not good if there is someone sleeping two rooms over.

[roamer_1]

@roamer_1
Are there young kids around?   

@driftdiver

Nope.

Is theft a concern?

Not if the dog's still kicking. I routinely leave the door unlocked (almost always into the back yard), and the keys in the truck. The dog is enough.

The first two are obvious but over penetration is a major concern in many areas where the neighbors house is just a few feet away.   So unless  you want to kill the intruder and your neighbor 3 houses down standing behind his fridge you should think about what you are using.

I'm fairly in the sticks. my neighbor to the east is kinda close,  but not close enough to worry about much more than peppering his paint (which has happened)

The 12ga with 00 actually has quite a bit of penetration.

Nah. Not a sawed-off. That's why it 's here... For taking out varmints around the chicken coop and in the barnyard. It doesn't penetrate the coop, and I even got a coon in the kitchen... took the drywall and made a hole in the insulation - But the outer wall stopped it.

[driftdiver]

@roamer_1
My goal is a house here in Tampa for the winter and a house in the mountains with a herd of goats for the summer.   Here in Tampa I have to worry about the neighbors.    My future house it will only be the goats.

[roamer_1]

@roamer_1
My goal is a house here in Tampa for the winter and a house in the mountains with a herd of goats for the summer.   Here in Tampa I have to worry about the neighbors.    My future house it will only be the goats.

@driftdiver
Yeah, I have a similar problem. If I can, I want to get 20 acres way back in the sticks and set a homestead all up in there... and keep this one for the wintertime.  It would be great to winter up there,  and if I can, I will. The only thing keeping me down here is health and grandkids. 

[GrouchoTex]

Home defense only? Not the perimeter?  In that case:

sawed-off 12ga pump /00
1911 .45 x2 (distributed)

I agree.

The good old 1911 is reliable.

As for the shotgun, some times even if unloaded, if an intruder hears the sound of the pump, they will run.

[driftdiver]

I agree.

The good old 1911 is reliable.

As for the shotgun, some times even if unloaded, if an intruder hears the sound of the pump, they will run.

@GrouchoTex
I had one case of almost having to use a gun.   A guy was trying to get in my little kids window.   I had the .45 pointed at him with him trying to push the window up.   I told my kids to get out of the room because I didnt want to destroy their hearing or having them see it.    He stopped trying to get the window open and my kids moved slow.   Only thing that saved his life.

[roamer_1]

The good old 1911 is reliable.

I still don't quite trust em. My faith is still in a Colt single action .45
Only time I ever had a semi-auto before, the thing stove-piped and I wound up throwing it at a griz.

[GrouchoTex]

I still don't quite trust em. My faith is still in a Colt single action .45
Only time I ever had a semi-auto before, the thing stove-piped and I wound up throwing it at a griz.

My guns now are single action revolvers, 2 Rugers, in fact.
Yet, the 1911, the older ones anyway, seemed pretty reliable, and pretty indestructible.
Had an older Springfield 1911 that shot straight, didn't have a kick, so you could shoot one-handed, and I didn't have the jam issue.
That was then.....
I haven't shot one in over 10 years now, at least.

[GrouchoTex]

@GrouchoTex
I had one case of almost having to use a gun.   A guy was trying to get in my little kids window.   I had the .45 pointed at him with him trying to push the window up.   I told my kids to get out of the room because I didnt want to destroy their hearing or having them see it.    He stopped trying to get the window open and my kids moved slow.   Only thing that saved his life.

That was a close call!

[roamer_1]

My guns now are single action revolvers, 2 Rugers, in fact.
Yet, the 1911, the older ones anyway, seemed pretty reliable, and pretty indestructible.
Had an older Springfield 1911 that shot straight, didn't have a kick, so you could shoot one-handed, and I didn't have the jam issue.
That was then.....
I haven't shot one in over 10 years now, at least.

I like a Peacemaker style cowboy Colt. Been running one of those my whole life, and it's like an extension of my finger. It's just built into me for the weight, and the compensation for the long barrel is native.

So I pull high with that 1911 (and left for some reason), and it feels like a pop gun to me (too light)... 
It's alright... I will get used to it eventually.... And I ain't bad with it... just not good.

[GrouchoTex]

I like a Peacemaker style cowboy Colt. Been running one of those my whole life, and it's like an extension of my finger. It's just built into me for the weight, and the compensation for the long barrel is native.

Both my Rugers are long barrelled, Cowboy-type guns.
Gunmetal with wood grips.
Accurate.

[roamer_1]

Both my Rugers are long barrelled, Cowboy-type guns.
Gunmetal with wood grips.
Accurate.

I'd probably like em just fine.
 

[Lando Lincoln]

Both my Rugers are long barrelled, Cowboy-type guns.
Gunmetal with wood grips.
Accurate.

My favs to shoot.  .45 Colt.  Yes.

In the home?

1. Taurus Judge - out in front by a long distance.
2. Stoeger 12-gauge Coach Gun (I know, kinda Cowboy but I like it)
3.  Remington 870 youth - 20-gauge
4.  Oh, and a Doberman who thinks every creature is her new best friend - but has a ferocious alert system

[sneakypete]

Bolt action 30 06 for when you need to reach out a touch someone.

@jpsb

In 30/06,it's hard to beat a M1 Garand. Don't forget,Big Daddy Goobermint is restricting you to 3 guns for life,so you might as well have a rifle meant to last.

If you could live with a .308,a FN-FAL is hard to beat.

If you want a bolt gun,a Model 70 Winchester long action chambered for a H&H Magnum tapered case if you really want to reach out to touch somebody and have it felt.

[sneakypete]

For the longest time it was the best kept secret in the Czech Republic.  They made a great 9mm pistol but couldn't get the patents on it because of the Russians IIRC...so an Italian gun maker Tanfoglio started making them and the rest is history.

Bottom line it's a well made straight shooting hi capacity 9mm pistol.

@CZ's are accurate,they never break,and they never jam with good loads.

[sneakypete]

@Bigun
At +/- 25 ft, at a moving target, I'll take the spread. Nobody's going to be testifying anyway.

@roamer_1   @Bigun

At typical living room range,it't pretty much irrelevant because most of the shot wiil never leave the shot cup. It's essentially a slug.

[roamer_1]

@roamer_1   @Bigun

At typical living room range,it't pretty much irrelevant because most of the shot wiil never leave the shot cup. It's essentially a slug.

@sneakypete
Nope. at 25-30 ft my sawed-off is an eye-shaped pattern with most of it centered, but about a 6" scatter on a horizontal axis. I have made a couple and that's my predictable result. Had a double barrel to start with, sawed off way short, and that one was spreading even more...

Dunno if that's weird, but it's what I get.

[sneakypete]

@sneakypete
Nope. at 25-30 ft my sawed-off is an eye-shaped pattern with most of it centered, but about a 6" scatter on a horizontal axis. I have made a couple and that's my predictable result. Had a double barrel to start with, sawed off way short, and that one was spreading even more...

Dunno if that's weird, but it's what I get.

@roamer_1

Try it with some choke in it. The barrel length dosen't matter if there is a choke.

[roamer_1]

@roamer_1

Try it with some choke in it. The barrel length dosen't matter if there is a choke.

@sneakypete

Don't want to choke it.  I want the spread. Like I said, it's mostly for bear protection and whackin varmints.

In bear mode (alternating 00 and slug) the 00 is for take out senses, and the slug don't give a shit.

For varmints, I want it to lose velocity and spread quick.

[Elderberry]

So all of you are comfortable with the idea of only having three guns?

[Elderberry]

1. Taurus Judge

Have you shot one? How does it group, both .410 and .45?

I have a .45/.410 barrel for my contender. With a ten inch choked barrel, it makes a very handy shotgun, that I've killed many a moccasin with.
But with that excessive travel that a .45 bullet must make before it engages rifling, its accuracy with .45 ammo is not so great.

So I only shoot .410 ammo thru it. I use my Ruger Blackhawk for .45 shooting.