Ford's Self-Driving Test Car Severly Damaged In Crash (With Injuries)

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

zerohedge
by Tyler Durden
Sat, 01/13/2018 - 20:30

[exerpt]

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-01-12/fords-self-driving-test-car-severely-damaged-crash

It’s never good news when an autonomous automobile is involved in an accident. Lately, Alphabet’s Waymo crashed an autonomous bus in Las Vegas, and Uber managed to flip a self-driving Volvo in Arizona.

In the latest installment of autonomous car accidents across America, a self-driving test car from the Ford-backed startup Argo-AI was severely damaged Wednesday that sent two people to the hospital.



According to the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, a box truck ran a red light about 10 a.m. at the 16th and Progress streets in Pittsburgh’s North Side and smashed into an Argo AI self-driving car with four people inside. Two of the four passengers in the Argo AI car were injured and taken to the hospital in stable conditions.

[GtHawk]

zerohedge
by Tyler Durden
Sat, 01/13/2018 - 20:30

[exerpt]

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-01-12/fords-self-driving-test-car-severely-damaged-crash

It’s never good news when an autonomous automobile is involved in an accident. Lately, Alphabet’s Waymo crashed an autonomous bus in Las Vegas, and Uber managed to flip a self-driving Volvo in Arizona.

In the latest installment of autonomous car accidents across America, a self-driving test car from the Ford-backed startup Argo-AI was severely damaged Wednesday that sent two people to the hospital.



According to the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, a box truck ran a red light about 10 a.m. at the 16th and Progress streets in Pittsburgh’s North Side and smashed into an Argo AI self-driving car with four people inside. Two of the four passengers in the Argo AI car were injured and taken to the hospital in stable conditions.

Proponent computer driven cars will say that if the truck was self driving the accident wouldn't have happened. But really isn't this actually a non story in so far as the self driving car is concerned? Would the result have been different if there had been a human driving the Ford?

[dfwgator]

Self-Driving cars, what could possibly go wrong?

[Oceander]

The truck - which was human-driven - ran a red light.  How does this count as a set-back for self-driving cars?

[WingNot]

The truck - which was human-driven - ran a red light.  How does this count as a set-back for self-driving cars?

It just ain't human.

[endicom]

Proponent computer driven cars will say that if the truck was self driving the accident wouldn't have happened. But really isn't this actually a non story in so far as the self driving car is concerned? Would the result have been different if there had been a human driving the Ford?

I would probably have seen the truck coming and stopped or swerved.

[Oceander]

I would probably have seen the truck coming and stopped or swerved.

Or, you would have been t-boned, as happens all too often in the real world when one human-driven car runs a red light and strikes another human-driven car.

[WingNot]

Or, you would have been t-boned, as happens all too often in the real world when one human-driven car runs a red light and strikes another human-driven car.

Spoken like a true ambulance chaser!
/snicker

[Oceander]

Spoken like a true ambulance chaser!
/snicker

[GtHawk]

I would probably have seen the truck coming and stopped or swerved.

I commend you on your propitious driving skills. In the real world things are often different, as when I as a  nineteen year old with much faster reaction times and reflexes than today and was powerless to avoid being T-boned by a car coming from my left at forty five miles an hour. Just think how fortunate I would have been if I was a passenger in your car.

[Cripplecreek]

The truck - which was human-driven - ran a red light.  How does this count as a set-back for self-driving cars?

Self driving cars behave according to a strict set of rules in a world made erratic by humans who don't always behave according to the rules. Self driving cars lack the intuition to predict and prevent unforseen accidents the way an experienced human driver does almost instinctively.

[Cripplecreek]

I commend you on your propitious driving skills. In the real world things are often different, as when I as a  nineteen year old with much faster reaction times and reflexes than today and was powerless to avoid being T-boned by a car coming from my left at forty five miles an hour. Just think how fortunate I would have been if I was a passenger in your car.

Actually, younger drivers do have the faster reaction times but older drivers tend to watch further ahead and be more aware of their surroundings while driving

[DB]

Where I am people run red lights all the time at several different intersections. I take that into account and don't pull into those intersections until I have a pretty good idea it is safe regardless of the light being green. Will the auto driver learn that?

My bet is in the not very distant future, the larger cities are going require people use self driving cars on specific freeways/highways or not be allowed on them. That will likely greatly improve the capacity of those roads saving the cities a large amount of money not having to expand the roads. That will come at the cost of your independence and privacy and perhaps your safety.

[Oceander]

Self driving cars behave according to a strict set of rules in a world made erratic by humans who don't always behave according to the rules. Self driving cars lack the intuition to predict and prevent unforseen accidents the way an experienced human driver does almost instinctively.

So you mean that human-driven cars would never get t-boned by a truck that ran a red light?  Or that the odds are infintesimal?

[Cyber Liberty]

The truck - which was human-driven - ran a red light.  How does this count as a set-back for self-driving cars?

Time for a serious answer:  It's a setback because it means the Artificial Intelligence required to drive defensively isn't ready for prime-time yet. As long as the road is being shared with illogical and inattentive  humans there will be a need for defensive driving. 

[DB]

So you mean that human-driven cars would never get t-boned by a truck that ran a red light?  Or that the odds are infintesimal?

A problem in the cities will be that people will figure out how to intimidate self driving cars by cutting in on their margin knowing they will back off ceding them space. People will happily take whatever advantage they can.

In addition criminals will take advantage by stopping people that would otherwise flee if they had full control of their cars.

[Oceander]

Time for a serious answer:  It's a setback because it means the Artificial Intelligence required to drive defensively isn't ready for prime-time yet. As long as the road is being shared with illogical and inattentive  humans there will be a need for defensive driving. 

No.  You have to prove that no human driver would have been t-boned in that circumstance.  Otherwise, the AI is no better and no worse than a human driver.

[DB]

So you mean that human-driven cars would never get t-boned by a truck that ran a red light?  Or that the odds are infintesimal?

How well does you computer anticipate what you are going to do? And how willing are you to bet your life that it will guess right? I think it will get there, but I don't want to be the statistic they learn from.

[Cyber Liberty]

No.  You have to prove that no human driver would have been t-boned in that circumstance.  Otherwise, the AI is no better and no worse than a human driver.

No, I don't have to prove your hypothetical to make this point. This isn't the only time a driverless vehicle has been in a collision.  The general case is lack of defensive driving skills. 

Added:  It was stated upthread all cars with drivers would have to be taken off the road for it to be safe for driverless vehicles.  I don't think people west of the Hudson would go for that.

[DB]

No.  You have to prove that no human driver would have been t-boned in that circumstance.  Otherwise, the AI is no better and no worse than a human driver.

That's not true.

If a human gets T boned half as often (or twice as often) as AI in the same situation that is very significant, particularly if your the one in the car. It isn't a binary result.

[Cripplecreek]

So you mean that human-driven cars would never get t-boned by a truck that ran a red light?  Or that the odds are infintesimal?

Obviously not but I'd rather trust my intuition. The self driving car has the right of way and ignores the truck. In the same situation I know I have the right of way but I'm making a judgement on whether the truck is going to stop or whether we'll be at the intersection at the same time. Its part of the defensive driving that was pounded into our heads in driver training.

There are no worse drivers on the road than the offensive drivers who will take their right of way at any cost. They're the idiots who refuse to move to the left lane, slow down or speed up to allow cars to merge onto the freeway.  My sister is mad at me now for saying she deserved the ticket she got when she rear ended a guy who cut her off and spiked his brakes. She took it to court and lost exactly as I predicted she would.

My mom's idiot husband wrecked a car a few years ago. He was following (too close) a guy who suddenly turned off onto the shoulder of the road. The idiot husband continued at speed and hit the leading car when it turned back out across the lane to complete his illegal U-turn. It was the leading car's obvious fault but it wouldn't have happened if I had been driving the trailing car. I would have immediately slowed down to see what the guy in the lead car was doing.

Just today I was sitting at a stop sign and didn't pull out in  front of the truck coming from the left with his turn signal on. Had I assumed his turn signal meant he was going to turn I would have turned in front of him  and he would have driven into my lap.

[Cripplecreek]

Added:  It was stated upthread all cars with drivers would have to be taken off the road for it to be safe for driverless vehicles.  I don't think people west of the Hudson would go for that.

Self driving cars came up at a family gathering today and the consensus even among the rabidly liberal family members was that they want to do their own driving most of the time.

[Cyber Liberty]

Obviously not but I'd rather trust my intuition. The self driving car has the right of way and ignores the truck. In the same situation I know I have the right of way but I'm making a judgement on whether the truck is going to stop or whether we'll be at the intersection at the same time. Its part of the defensive driving that was pounded into our heads in driver training.

There are no worse drivers on the road than the offensive drivers who will take their right of way at any cost. They're the idiots who refuse to move to the left lane, slow down or speed up to allow cars to merge onto the freeway.  My sister is mad at me now for saying she deserved the ticket she got when she rear ended a guy who cut her off and spiked his brakes. She took it to court and lost exactly as I predicted she would.

My mom's idiot husband wrecked a car a few years ago. He was following (too close) a guy who suddenly turned off onto the shoulder of the road. The idiot husband continued at speed and hit the leading car when it turned back out across the lane to complete his illegal U-turn. It was the leading car's obvious fault but it wouldn't have happened if I had been driving the trailing car. I would have immediately slowed down to see what the guy in the lead car was doing.

Just today I was sitting at a stop sign and didn't pull out in  front of the truck coming from the left with his turn signal on. Had I assumed his turn signal meant he was going to turn I would have turned in front of him  and he would have driven into my lap.

I'm in the suburbs.  People behind get pissed at me because, when I'm turning from a side street onto an arterial with two lanes each way, I won't make the right when there's an oncoming vehicle coming from the left, even if he's in the left lane.  Turn signal or not, I don't trust them to not change lanes unexpectedly.  Likewise, when I'm making the left I want to see the whole damned street clear both ways.  This is why I try to route my trip so I don't have to make lefts.

The AI in driverless cars just isn't up to snuff yet.  People who don't drive a lot don't appreciate the skill that defensive driving requires.  We make it look easy.