Author Topic: Remington Just Changed the Game, Brings Shotguns Into 21st Century  (Read 3884 times)

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Offline endicom

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Conservative Tribune
John Falkenberg
Dec. 15, 2017

Even those who are unfamiliar with firearms often know there’s nothing like a good pump-action shotgun for defending hearth and home.

A consistent problem with using shotguns in a tactical scenario, however, is the reload.

It’s possible to get into the habit of an efficient reload, but it takes an enormous amount of time and effort.

There’s nothing wrong with taking time and effort while training with your home defense tool, but Remington’s new magazine-fed shotgun might help you when the last thing you need to be doing is fumbling with shells.

More... https://conservativetribune.com/remington-just-changed-the/

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2017/12/4/range-review-remington-870-dm-shotgun/

Offline dfwgator

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Re: Remington Just Changed the Game, Brings Shotguns Into 21st Century
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2017, 10:54:59 pm »
And just in time for Christmas.

Offline endicom

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Re: Remington Just Changed the Game, Brings Shotguns Into 21st Century
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2017, 11:19:29 pm »
And just in time for Christmas.

Feeling pumped up?


Offline the_doc

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Re: Remington Just Changed the Game, Brings Shotguns Into 21st Century
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2017, 11:22:48 pm »
And just in time for Christmas.

Better still, get a semiautomatic shotgun, usually supplied with a five-round magazine for quick changeout.  (Or you could even get a couple of ten-round magazines.  In some states, I believe, you can get a 25-round drum.)

The pump shotguns guns, although popular, are antiquated, in my opinion. 

Offline Elderberry

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Re: Remington Just Changed the Game, Brings Shotguns Into 21st Century
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2017, 11:31:11 pm »
You can't easily single load a round or two before it's empty.

THE TRUTH ABOUT THE REMINGTOM 870 DM

http://blog.suarezinternational.com/2017/12/the-truth-about-the-remingtom-870-dm.html

First we ask what the shotgun is intended for.  The use of the shotgun does not require shooting it empty and then racing to load it. It is not a sustained fire weapon, like the rifle.  Itis fired once or twice, and the reloaded as needed.  To see the real use of a shotgun in combat, we need to look to US Law Enforcement, not US Gun Competitors whose sport demands speed of reloading.

In a street fight, the shotgun is fired once or twice...perhaps three times, and then it is reloaded with single rounds.  Not as sexy as what Remington suggests, but its the way its done.  The way Remington is marketing this is by comparing the full reload of an empty tube fed 870, to the full reload of a magazine fed 870.  Very clever on their part but absolutely irrelevant.

Instead, lets compare times to the first shot from empty guns on each side.  My money is on the chamber load of the tube fed weapon, followed by the tube load (and subsequent racking of the action) of the tube fed weapon in speed over the magazine fed model.   Moreover, if we accept that the way shotguns are used in real life is by a "load what you shoot" methodology - in other words, load what you have shot as soon as you have the chance - the tube fed weapon is far easier to keep loaded than the magazine fed weapon.

Not to mention the carry of additional ammunition is far easier with the tube fed methodology of a belt mounted ammo sleeve, a side saddle, or even a handful of shells in the jacket pocket.

Online Bigun

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Re: Remington Just Changed the Game, Brings Shotguns Into 21st Century
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2017, 11:36:28 pm »
You can't easily single load a round or two before it's empty.

THE TRUTH ABOUT THE REMINGTOM 870 DM

http://blog.suarezinternational.com/2017/12/the-truth-about-the-remingtom-870-dm.html

First we ask what the shotgun is intended for.  The use of the shotgun does not require shooting it empty and then racing to load it. It is not a sustained fire weapon, like the rifle.  Itis fired once or twice, and the reloaded as needed.  To see the real use of a shotgun in combat, we need to look to US Law Enforcement, not US Gun Competitors whose sport demands speed of reloading.

In a street fight, the shotgun is fired once or twice...perhaps three times, and then it is reloaded with single rounds.  Not as sexy as what Remington suggests, but its the way its done.  The way Remington is marketing this is by comparing the full reload of an empty tube fed 870, to the full reload of a magazine fed 870.  Very clever on their part but absolutely irrelevant.

Instead, lets compare times to the first shot from empty guns on each side.  My money is on the chamber load of the tube fed weapon, followed by the tube load (and subsequent racking of the action) of the tube fed weapon in speed over the magazine fed model.   Moreover, if we accept that the way shotguns are used in real life is by a "load what you shoot" methodology - in other words, load what you have shot as soon as you have the chance - the tube fed weapon is far easier to keep loaded than the magazine fed weapon.

Not to mention the carry of additional ammunition is far easier with the tube fed methodology of a belt mounted ammo sleeve, a side saddle, or even a handful of shells in the jacket pocket.

Excellent post in it's entirety!  Completely concur. 

Remington is trying to increase sales just like golf club makers do with new models every year.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

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Offline the_doc

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Re: Remington Just Changed the Game, Brings Shotguns Into 21st Century
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2017, 12:43:00 am »
@Elderberry
@Bigun
Excellent post in it's entirety!  Completely concur. 

Remington is trying to increase sales just like golf club makers do with new models every year.

Right.  That's why I pointed out that if they were serious about quick loading, they would emphasize the semi-automatic type.  But Remington still makes too much off the pump-action gun to abandon that line altogether.  They just made a minor modification to entice pump-action gun enthusiasts to upgrade.

(I think the appeal of a pump-action shotgun is a little bit like that of a 30-30 rifle:  some people just like to work actions.  [Heck, I have a 30-30, and being an incurable romantic, I love it.  It makes me want to ride a horse throughout the Old West and carry that lever-action rifle as my saddle gun.])   

Offline Elderberry

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Re: Remington Just Changed the Game, Brings Shotguns Into 21st Century
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2017, 01:01:42 am »


Right.  That's why I pointed out that if they were serious about quick loading, they would emphasize the semi-automatic type.
@the_doc
@Bigun

So are you saying that Remington's 1100( Remington Model 1100â„¢ has cemented its name as the most popular autoloader in history. ) tube fed semi-auto shotgun, is faster re-loading than the Remington 870 pump shotgun?

The issue is not pump vs semi-auto. It is tube fed vs magazine fed.

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Re: Remington Just Changed the Game, Brings Shotguns Into 21st Century
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2017, 01:02:57 am »
@Elderberry
@Bigun
Right.  That's why I pointed out that if they were serious about quick loading, they would emphasize the semi-automatic type.  But Remington still makes too much off the pump-action gun to abandon that line altogether.  They just made a minor modification to entice pump-action gun enthusiasts to upgrade.

(I think the appeal of a pump-action shotgun is a little bit like that of a 30-30 rifle:  some people just like to work actions.  [Heck, I have a 30-30, and being an incurable romantic, I love it.  It makes me want to ride a horse throughout the Old West and carry that lever-action rifle as my saddle gun.])   

The only thing about autoloaders is that it is much harder to load single rounds directly into the chamber with them than with a pump.  Unless the autoloader has a last round bolt hold open feature of course.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline driftdiver

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Re: Remington Just Changed the Game, Brings Shotguns Into 21st Century
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2017, 01:11:36 am »
Remington is going bankrupt
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Offline skeeter

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Re: Remington Just Changed the Game, Brings Shotguns Into 21st Century
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2017, 01:17:53 am »
The only thing about autoloaders is that it is much harder to load single rounds directly into the chamber with them than with a pump.  Unless the autoloader has a last round bolt hold open feature of course.

I have a Mossberg 590 that dislocates my shoulder after a dozen rounds so as far as shotguns go I'm more concerned with recoil than the means of chambering a round. Benelli has a cool new inertia driven recoil system on some of their models that're worth a closer look, IMO. I'd rather spend the extra dough on that.

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Re: Remington Just Changed the Game, Brings Shotguns Into 21st Century
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2017, 01:23:08 am »
I have a Mossberg 590 that dislocates my shoulder after a dozen rounds so as far as shotguns go I'm more concerned with recoil than the means of chambering a round. Benelli has a cool new inertia driven recoil system on some of their models that're worth a closer look, IMO. I'd rather spend the extra dough on that.

I own a Stoger which is a Benelli in everything but the markings stamped on the barrel.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Elderberry

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Re: Remington Just Changed the Game, Brings Shotguns Into 21st Century
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2017, 01:46:37 am »
I have a Mossberg 590 that dislocates my shoulder after a dozen rounds so as far as shotguns go I'm more concerned with recoil than the means of chambering a round. Benelli has a cool new inertia driven recoil system on some of their models that're worth a closer look, IMO. I'd rather spend the extra dough on that.
@skeeter

My son has the Benelli M3. It is inertial driven and you can also pump it as well. It is very smooth.

Offline skeeter

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Re: Remington Just Changed the Game, Brings Shotguns Into 21st Century
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2017, 01:53:01 am »
@skeeter

My son has the Benelli M3. It is inertial driven and you can also pump it as well. It is very smooth.

Yeah it looks good. But pricey!

Online Bigun

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Re: Remington Just Changed the Game, Brings Shotguns Into 21st Century
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2017, 01:56:31 am »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Elderberry

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Re: Remington Just Changed the Game, Brings Shotguns Into 21st Century
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2017, 02:58:37 am »
Take a look at this instead.

https://www.stoegerindustries.com/m3000-shotgun

That's a great price!

I hadn't heard of having to break in a shotgun before, but inertia guns are foreign to me.

https://www.stoegerindustries.com/faq

Does my Stoeger shotgun need to be broken in?

Only these models require a breaking-in period: M3500, M3000, M2000.

Here’s how to break in these shotguns:

    Immediately after purchase, clean the gun and oil it thoroughly.
    Fire 100 to 200 rounds of a heavy load through the gun.

This will prepare the shotgun for cycling light trap or hunting loads.

After break-in, the minimum load your Stoeger Industries semi-auto shotgun will cycle reliably is an 11/8 ounce and 3 drams of powder.


This may leave out light defense loads. I wonder.

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Remington Just Changed the Game, Brings Shotguns Into 21st Century
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2017, 05:01:46 pm »
I have a Mossberg 590 that dislocates my shoulder after a dozen rounds so as far as shotguns go I'm more concerned with recoil than the means of chambering a round. Benelli has a cool new inertia driven recoil system on some of their models that're worth a closer look, IMO. I'd rather spend the extra dough on that.

I think I've fixed the recoil issue by getting a shotgun that other than the stock and the pump is solid steel.

I'll let you know after a range trip this coming weekend.

http://armscor.com/firearms/shotgun-series/m30-m5-matte-nickel/
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Remington Just Changed the Game, Brings Shotguns Into 21st Century
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2017, 05:05:38 pm »
I can see where that DM 870 might come in handy at a 3 Gun event but unless I'm wrong you're still stuck with a 4 or 5 +1 shotgun...now you have the added fun of trying to change a mag if necessary under duress.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

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Offline skeeter

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Re: Remington Just Changed the Game, Brings Shotguns Into 21st Century
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2017, 05:06:06 pm »
I think I've fixed the recoil issue by getting a shotgun that other than the stock and the pump is solid steel.

I'll let you know after a range trip this coming weekend.

http://armscor.com/firearms/shotgun-series/m30-m5-matte-nickel/

I'll look forward to your report. My wife would be happier with that price range, too...

Offline thackney

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Re: Remington Just Changed the Game, Brings Shotguns Into 21st Century
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2017, 06:21:13 pm »
Remington changes the game by using a 20 year old Saiga design?
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Offline the_doc

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Re: Remington Just Changed the Game, Brings Shotguns Into 21st Century
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2017, 04:34:41 pm »
@the_doc
@Bigun

So are you saying that Remington's 1100( Remington Model 1100â„¢ has cemented its name as the most popular autoloader in history. ) tube fed semi-auto shotgun, is faster re-loading than the Remington 870 pump shotgun?

The issue is not pump vs semi-auto. It is tube fed vs magazine fed.

No, I was just saying that I see no reason to have a pump shotgun in the first place.  Now that you mention it, however, I see no reason to have a tube-fed semi-auto shotgun when there are shotguns with magazine feed.  I love my Saiga-12.

Thanks for helping me to clarify my point.

Offline Elderberry

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Re: Remington Just Changed the Game, Brings Shotguns Into 21st Century
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2017, 09:51:29 pm »

Shotgun Reload Techniques | Benelli M3 Super 90
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Are Magazine-Fed Shotguns Reliable Enough for Home Defense?
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Re: Remington Just Changed the Game, Brings Shotguns Into 21st Century
« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2017, 05:56:35 am »
Better still, get a semiautomatic shotgun, usually supplied with a five-round magazine for quick changeout.  (Or you could even get a couple of ten-round magazines.  In some states, I believe, you can get a 25-round drum.)

The pump shotguns guns, although popular, are antiquated, in my opinion.

@the_doc

I agree,with the exception of the Ithaca Model 37. The older ones,and maybe the newer ones for all I know,don't have a "trigger interrupt". Hold back the trigger and it will fire a round every time you jack a shell into the chamber.

Although,truthfully I have no idea how or where the typical civilian would find this feature useful. You won't be fighting hordes of screaming Chinese charging at you shoulder to shoulder. At MOST,you might end up facing 3 intruders/attackers,and the instant you take ones head off with the first shot the others will hear their mamas calling them home for dinner,and will disappear quicker than Wily E. Coyote going after a crippled roadrunner.
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