Pastor says Roy Moore was seeking the 'purity of a young woman'

[musiclady]

Anyway, I found the article by Breitbart to be above par.

Thanks, @Sighlass .  I shall read it, then! 

[TomSea]

There's also an article out today that Roy Moore's camp refused to substantiate claims they made on Corfman:

Roy Moore campaign refuses to substantiate claims about accuser
The Washington Post Michael Scherer 4 hrs ago

Senate candidate Roy Moore's campaign refused Wednesday to substantiate a key claim it made as part of an effort to raise doubts about one of the Alabama candidate's accusers.

The campaign has claimed to have found documents that show Leigh Corfman lived more than a mile from the intersection where she said Moore picked her up for dates in 1979, when she was 14 and he was 32. She says he took her to his house and touched her inappropriately. Moore has denied knowing Corfman.

"According to records the media has not bothered to look at, we've been able to find that Corfman's supposed pickup place was almost a mile away from her mother's house and would have been across a major thoroughfare," Ben DuPré, a longtime aide to Moore, said at an event Tuesday in Montgomery. "This is yet another improbable fact in Leigh Corfman's own words and story that the media has not bothered to investigate."

Continued at: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/roy-moore-campaign-refuses-to-substantiate-claims-about-accuser/ar-BBFvzhI

[Silver Pines]

A couple who were very close friends of my wife and I since the early 70s, were around 30 and 18 respectively when they wed.

He from Pennsylvania via the US Air Force, and she from Indiana.

He is dead, and she remains a close friend. For her next husband, she went for an older man again.

@truth_seeker

I imagine your friend---the husband who's deceased---didn't hang around teenaged haunts, trolling for young girls.

[TomSea]

I understand, this was the website that first went Trump central and turned 180 about face on Cruz. Then suddenly has mixed feelings about Trump after Bannon got the boot from the administration. I earlier (in another post weeks ago) expressed my dislike of how Bannon suddenly after a couple of days campaigning in Alabama suddenly acted like he was the reason for Moore victory over Luther Strange. Glory hounding basically.

But.... (there is that Butt word)....

Not many have the deep pockets in today's media world to research items from a more conservative view point in any depth. So I gave the article a look over and it actually dug deeper than most articles out there. Especially since I know if you don't trust them, you certainly don't trust the Washington Post either. Being from Alabama, let me just say you wouldn't trust Al(dot)com either if you knew them. But just because an article is from the WP or Al(dot)com does not mean they don't also have gleams of truth mixed in with their agenda push.

The Breitbart article did some good digging I thought. First off, the no phone thing in the bedroom is sorta a thing I would not chase. Yes, she did not have a phone in her bedroom, but most of us that age remember having phones with long cords or those curly cords that you could stretch a long ways, so maybe she just stretched the cord to her bedroom. Who knows. I know you could walk a long ways with grandmother's phone cord.

Anyway, the article points out that there was only a 12 day period that this could of happened. For two dates and a 3rd call that is a pretty good crunch time.

Also it did a good job of disputing the time frame of her so called rebellious days that she claimed was part of Roy's doing. The article points out the court says she was having those problems before the court date, and that is is documented in the court papers. Interesting. Also the court papers state that after the so called incident with Roy Moore, the court papers say her behavior improved, not the opposite as claimed.

It was interesting to me, after the year and the daughter so called improvement in behavior, the mother filed to take the child back from the father. Talk about unfair to a dad. Just me speculating here as a dad, but dang, take the kid, she starts acting better than you get punished for it.

Also the "picked her up around the corner" intersection was almost a mile from the house, across a major road (dangerous traffic to cross)...

Now that does sound strange to arrange to be picked up so far away. Did she not want Moore to see her home? That sounds odd, but true to life, my wife on our first date did not arrange to meet at her home (she didn't want me to know where she lived in case I was a nut like her previous suitor). So did she make up the story of where they met for the pickup or did she have a desire to meet far from home for a reason like my wife did.

Anyway, I found the article by Breitbart to be above par. At least they were trying to dig for some truth.

________________

Link to article that was discussed above for others to read if they so wanted.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/11/21/court-documents-raise-significant-questions-leigh-corfmans-accusations-roy-moore/

Speak for yourselves, I'm glad I've supported the most pro-life administration ever in this nation. 

Seeing how these folks push their views on people, it deserves some pushing back.

And Breitbart is the messenger, as always, people should show us what's wrong with the message.

[Silver Pines]

Who even the mother of..says was lying...phone home.  Otherwise, any proof there  ... because Y'a K'no some actual proof is the Conservative way. Just weeks before an election, unsubstantiated allegations..like this is the Democrat/regressive way.

Not sayin' you are a regressive..but you are sowing the wind, with no regard for truth...whatever it may be.

@Fantom

I don't even know what you mean by a "regressive', but let's clear this up.  When you speak about no regard for the truth, you better look right in the mirror.  I don't know whether you're spouting this crap because you're ignorant of the truth, and you get everything from Gateway Pundit, or whether it's deliberate.  Regardless, let's stop right not with the phone absurdity.
It was a pathetic attempt to discredit the woman that went nowhere.

Also, when you talk about "that other one" or however you put it who's telling lies all over the forum,  have the guts to use my name.



In one article, Breitbart Jerusalem bureau chief Aaron Klein says that Wells "contradicted a key detail of Corfman's story," namely that Corfman talked to Moore on "her phone in her bedroom." When Breitbart asked Wells if Corfman had her own phone in her bedroom, Wells said no, "but the phone in the house could get through to her easily." Wells also told Breitbart, if you read down far enough, that the Post's report is "truthful and it was researched very well."

http://theweek.com/speedreads/736947/breitbart-tries-poke-holes-roy-moore-accuser-leigh-corfmans-story-by-interviewing-mom

[Silver Pines]

It's easy to have happen when you're being attacked.

Just walk away and calm down.  No sense in letting their emotion become yours.

BOTH sides of this discussion need to continue in a rational manner.   Otherwise this place is no different from TOS......

@CatherineofAragon

@musiclady

No argument from me.

[Fishrrman]

andy58 wrote:
"That says a lot about Alabama. How old is 14 in sheep years?"

Interesting web page here:
http://chnm.gmu.edu/cyh/case-studies/230?section=primarysources&source=24

Check out the chart.
Going back to 1880, the "age of consent" in many states was 10.
That's right, T-E-N.
In a few states it was 12.
In other states, no age specified at all.

TODAY, in Austria, Germany, Italy, Portugal, Brazil, and Canada, the age of consent is 14.
In Spain, it is 13.

In Colorado, it is 15.
In Utah, it is 14 (if the male is 17 or younger).

We are relative prudes in comparison to much of the world...

[truth_seeker]

@truth_seeker

I imagine your friend---the husband who's deceased---didn't hang around teenaged haunts, trolling for young girls.

Were he alive today, he would admit he sought out an 18 year old. That would still be a real beauty still in her early-mid 20s as he went through his 30s. Looked nice on his arm.

Small town High school grads only, he a vet. He was very good at his vocation, and they lived well enough.

By certain standard though, they would be the northern equivalent of "gap-toothed hicks," and not too proud to admit it.

He turned us on to reallhy, really great music--Blues music, and Southern rock etc.

We believe the two had the love of their lives together, but now her husband is also older, a devout Christian man, retired law enforcement, Southern roots I think. Shot in the line of duty.

Flip it over. She has had two husbands much older than she. Is that a sinful behavior on her part. Doesn't the lady count?

If two find a mutual relationship, is it okay?

[Sighlass]

andy58 wrote:
"That says a lot about Alabama. How old is 14 in sheep years?"

Interesting web page here:
http://chnm.gmu.edu/cyh/case-studies/230?section=primarysources&source=24

Check out the chart.
Going back to 1880, the "age of consent" in many states was 10.
That's right, T-E-N.
In a few states it was 12.
In other states, no age specified at all.

Actually I think I think the chart is wrong for Alabama (has it listed as 16 from 1920s)...It wasn't until 2003 or so that Alabama raised the age from 14 to 16 for girls to be married.

There used to be a lot of black churches in Georgia that would have parents of 14 y/o girls sign permission slips for their daughters to go to Alabama and be married. It was quite the thing for a long time.

https://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/08/child_marriage_is_still_legal.html

[musiclady]

@musiclady

No argument from me.

I knew that!   ^-^

[Chosen Daughter]

Roy Moore Dated ‘Younger Ladies’ For Their ‘Purity,’ His Pastor Friend Says

By Cameron Joseph
11/21/2017

A prominent right-wing preacher who appeared alongside Senate candidate Roy Moore at a campaign rally just days ago said that Moore dated teen girls because of their “purity” and because when he got back from Vietnam there weren’t any women his age left to date.


Pastor Flip Benham told a local Alabama radio show on Monday that there was nothing wrong with Moore dating teenage girls.


Read more at:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/roy-moores-pastor-ally-says-he-dated-teens-because-of-their-purity

Purity.  Yeah right.  Hey maybe the pastor friend wants some purity too?

[Free Vulcan]

@Free Vulcan

He made a direct statement, as pointed out earlier.  And you didn't respond to my direct questions.

It's just one more in a tall stack of someone else lying about Moore.

I have answered your questions, just not to your satisfaction, because the answers are not what you want to hear.

There are no 14 year olds here. Corfman and Young's stories are blown to bits. You nevertheless persist because Moore is a proxy of your rage against Trump.

[Smokin Joe]

You're welcome! I keep reading that this story has been "debunked", but I have not yet found any evidence to support that claim. Do you happen to have a link to a reputable news site (i.e. - not Trumpway Trumpet or Trumpbart)? Thanks!

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/11/boom-witness-drops-bomb-proves-gloria-allred-accuser-nelson-lying-says-media-not-talk/

Witness also says Major Media would not talk to her.

[Neverdul]

I find it interesting that while this pastor friend of Moore’s says Roy was into teenage girls because of their “purity”, Roy ended up marrying a 24-year-old divorced woman with a child.

Of course he did scout her out much earlier, when Kayla would have been 15 years old:

Moore first saw his future wife, Kayla Kisor, when she was in her mid teenage years and was performing at a dance recital. According to press reports, Moore described his reaction in his 2005 biography, "I knew Kayla was going to be a special person in my life."

“When I was deputy district attorney, many years before we got married, I saw her at a dance recital and I was standing, oh, at the back of the auditorium and I saw her up front. I remember her name, it was Kayla Kisor. KK. But I remember that and I didn’t meet her there… It was, oh gosh, eight years later or something, I met her. And when she told me her name, I remembered,” said Moore.

It is of course possible that Moore was attending a high school dance recital for perfectly innocent reasons such as having a niece who was performing, but then again Roy is the oldest of five siblings so it is doubtful that he’d have a nice that old at the time. So what was a single man in his 30’s doing at a girl’s dance recital? Was the mall closed?

It also sounds possible that he started a courtin’ Kayla while she was still married.

In 1984, Kayla met Roy Moore. That same year, she filed for divorce from her first husband, with whom she had a daughter named Heather.

 

[Smokin Joe]

I find it interesting that while this pastor friend of Moore’s says Roy was into teenage girls because of their “purity”, Roy ended up marrying a 24-year-old divorced woman with a child.

Of course he did scout her out much earlier, when Kayla would have been 15 years old:

It is of course possible that Moore was attending a high school dance recital for perfectly innocent reasons such as having a niece who was performing, but then again Roy is the oldest of five siblings so it is doubtful that he’d have a nice that old at the time. So what was a single man in his 30’s doing at a girl’s dance recital? Was the mall closed?

It also sounds possible that he started a courtin’ Kayla while she was still married.

 

According to wikipedia,

Moore first saw his future wife, Kayla Kisor, when she was in her mid teenage years and was performing at a dance recital. According to press reports, Moore described his reaction in his 2005 biography, "I knew Kayla was going to be a special person in my life."[27] Kisor was then a classmate of a woman who accused Moore of sexual assault in 2017. Moore has denied the allegations.[28][29]

Years later, Moore and Kisor met again at Christmas party. She was then a divorced mother. They married a year later in 1985 when Moore was 38 and Kisor was 24. They have four adult children.[30]

If she was already divorced when they met, then he wasn't a factor.

By 1985, attitudes toward divorce had shifted somewhat from the stigma that was still attached in 1977.

[Neverdul]

andy58 wrote:
"That says a lot about Alabama. How old is 14 in sheep years?"

Interesting web page here:
http://chnm.gmu.edu/cyh/case-studies/230?section=primarysources&source=24

Check out the chart.
Going back to 1880, the "age of consent" in many states was 10.
That's right, T-E-N.

@Fishrrman

Of course the late 1970’s were culturally just like the 1880’s. /s

As to the “age of consent” back when, first of all one has to consider the life expectancy of women back then, when child birth was a very risky endeavor and when many women died in child birth. 

One also has to consider that adolescence as we know it today, even in the 1970’s, didn’t exist back then.  There wasn’t so much of a transition between childhood and adulthood as there is now. At 12 or 13 years old, even much younger children were working in factories, in mines, or on farms having ended their primary education often by the 4th or 5th grades, either to support themselves because they were orphaned or abandoned or to help support their families.  Persons of this age became adults at a young age because they had to.

And then there were the older men whose first wife may have died leaving him a widower with young children and a farm to tend to, they would often seek out a much younger and healthy “bride” so she could help raise the children, even if she was not much more than a child herself. Some of these marriages were happy, some not so much.

Secondly, not many girls back then, especially in rural areas, finished primary live alone any secondary education or got jobs or had careers so marriage was their only option to get out of the family home. And when families had large families to feed, a girl child, especially if she was one of many girls, was more of drain on family resources, so getting her married off as young as possible made good financial sense for her parents.

Next in rural farming communities, while it may not have been uncommon for older men to marry much younger women, “girls”, it was largely among those of the same social and economic class. In other words, while there are probably exceptions, you typically didn’t see highly educated and successful business or career men trolling farms looking for a 14-year-old to marry. It was more often a neighboring famer marrying the farmer’s daughter, both of them likely with about the same education level, having known each other for a long time through a church and in their very tight knit community. 

But more importantly the age of consent being so young gave cover to and legally allowed for “shot gun weddings”.

If a man had sexual relations with a 10, 12, 14-year-old girl, even if it was against her will, even if she was raped by him and she got pregnant or even if she didn’t become pregnant but her “reputation” was now ruined, rather than furthering the disgrace; the girls’ disgrace, the disgrace of the families on both sides, the families would allow or even insist that a marriage take place. Making the age of consent so low allowed for this as otherwise the man would have been jailed but the girl would be left unmarriageable – spoiled, left to a life of shame and destitution.

From the link you posted:

By 1920, when the influence of reform campaigns that established a new link between the age of consent and prostitution had run its course, most had revised their age upward, to 14 or 15 in European nations, and 16 in the Anglo-American world. In the last decades of the 20th century, states and nations with ages below those averages amended their laws to move closer to them. In Europe that growing conformity owed much to moves toward greater European integration. Given that the rationale for the age of consent has remained essentially unchanged in its emphasis on the need to protect 'immature' children, the table highlights the shifting and various definitions of childhood employed across time and cultures.

I would also point out that in that table, that as of 2007 the age of consent in Turkey is 18. Yes, Turkey. And that the age of consent in nearly all countries and US states have moved upward.

I also find it interesting that while many here point out the immorality of child brides in Muslim countries, of forcing rape victims to marry their rapists, of the parental arranged marries of very young girls to much older men, some seem to be OK with it here in Alabama…..Afghanistanabama.

 

[Neverdul]

According to wikipedia, If she was already divorced when they met, then he wasn't a factor.

By 1985, attitudes toward divorce had shifted somewhat from the stigma that was still attached in 1977.

In Moore’s own words…

“I knew Kayla was going to be a special person in my life,” Moore wrote about when he first saw her when she was 15 years old. He wrote he began dating her when she was 23, a year before they married, according to the memoir.


So she was 23 not 24 and possibly would have still been married when they began dating.

[Smokin Joe]

I would also point out that in that table, that as of 2007 the age of consent in Turkey is 18. Yes, Turkey. And that the age of consent in nearly all countries and US states have moved upward.

I also find it interesting that while many here point out the immorality of child brides in Muslim countries, of forcing rape victims to marry their rapists, of the parental arranged marries of very young girls to much older men, some seem to be OK with it here in Alabama…..Afghanistanabama.

 

Well, you failed to mention France, so I figured I would They have been debating establishing an age of consent (formerly there was no specified age), at 13. Modern times, indeed.

As for the US, it varies by state: From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_the_United_States
Age of consent laws in the U.S., reflecting the general age of consent:
  16 Blue
  17 Olive drab
  18 Green
  No data available Gray.

31 of the 50 States have established 16 as the age of consent. Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Connecticut, Georgia, Hawaii, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Vermont, Washington, West Virginia

Those pesky facts...

[roamer_1]

It is of course possible that Moore was attending a high school dance recital for perfectly innocent reasons such as having a niece who was performing [...]
 

All y'all don't live in a small town I guess. If you ain't in the party crowd, recitals, and high school choir and football games, and church socials, grange hall dances, farm dances... that sort of thing... That's where everybody goes. Because it's something to do.

If you're in the rowdy crowd, bars, keggers, the mud hole, or the stock car track... That's about it.

O_M_G he was at the mall!!! Well, duh. Everybody is at the mall. Especially in the winter. Hell, I went to the mall for lunch for years when I was in town, because of the food court and the folks. One of the two ice cream shops was in there too, and the only one open late - So it wasn't uncommon to be there after the movies either.

I guess I was a perv cruising for teenage girls too. 

bullshit.

[edpc]

I guess I was a perv cruising for teenage girls too.

If you called their mothers for permission to date them after chatting them up and checking them out - then yes - you were.

[roamer_1]

If you called their mothers for permission to date them after chatting them up and checking them out - then yes - you were.

Callin their mamma for permission shows good intentions, not bad. That's courting. That's looking for marriage. There's plenty of the party set to go to if all you're looking for is getting laid. Their mamma's don't know or don't give a damn.

Around here it's the dad you have to get through, and if you've never called a courting, you have no idea what you're talking about.

[edpc]

Yay - a perv trolling for teenage girls half his age with a code.  Definitely makes it better.

[roamer_1]

Yay - a perv trolling for teenage girls half his age with a code.  Definitely makes it better.

Like I said - you don't know what you're talking about.

[edpc]

Like I said - you don't know what you're talking about.

Says the guy who asked if I ever ‘called a courting.’

I’m not a frog, with a sword and pistol by my side.

[roamer_1]

I’m not a frog, with a sword and pistol by my side.

What the hell does that even mean?