'I HAD TO LEAVE'

[thackney]

Obviously, "hydraulic fracturing" is being used to represent the actual fracking and the associated activities, including wastewater injection -- which was what he had written about.

Induced seismicity isn't just a short-term effect.  Induced seismic events can occur long after the actual injections.

As has been said above, these aren't huge events being noted.  And as @Smokin Joe says, if there's intimidation to prevent reporting on them, that's not good at all.

That is very misleading to do so.  Lots of waste water injection occur that is not part of hydraulic fracturing.  And there is significant hydraulic fracturing that doesn't use waste water injection.  To me it is intentionally misleading.

[Sanguine]

I think you are making the same point as @Suppressed.

[Bigun]

That is very misleading to do so.  Lots of waste water injection occur that is not part of hydraulic fracturing.  And there is significant hydraulic fracturing that doesn't use waste water injection.  To me it is intentionally misleading.

Yep!  NO doubt about it IMHO!

[IsailedawayfromFR]

I think you are making the same point as Suppressed.

That was not my intention.

These are two very different operations for different purposes.

One is to inject into deep formations high volumes of water over a short period of time with the expectation of getting the majority of the water back to the surface.  The objective is fraccing the formation.  The produced water back may or may not be disposed and could be recycled instead.

The other is a continuous injection of water at shallower horizons and no expected return of any of the injected water.  The objective is disposal of water from producing operations.

[Cripplecreek]

Nobody ever mentions the fact that these minor quakes seldom if ever do any real damage anyway.

When heavy trucks cross the dam 100 yards from my house I feel more shaking than I've ever felt from any natural earthquake and nobody is complaining.

There are wastewater disposal wells all around me and I've never felt any shaking from them. The trucks carrying the brine cause more shaking.

[Suppressed]

You are lumping all associated activities into hydraulic fraccing including wastewater injection?

You were the one referencing what Dr. Holland said. I was pointing out that the injections in question were from the hydraulic fracturing process, which includes waste disposal.

And BTW, there are plenty of areas where hydraulic fracturing is used where the produced water is resused in fraccing, so wastewater injection is done.

?

Not sure what your point is here.

[Suppressed]

That is very misleading to do so.  Lots of waste water injection occur that is not part of hydraulic fracturing.  And there is significant hydraulic fracturing that doesn't use waste water injection.  To me it is intentionally misleading.

I haven't read the paper. Please point me to it, and what other injections had occurred.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

You were the one referencing what Dr. Holland said. I was pointing out that the injections in question were from the hydraulic fracturing process, which includes waste disposal.

?

Not sure what your point is here.

You are obviously not understanding oil and gas operations. Do you understand the previous post I made that explains the difference? http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,291663.msg1520103.html#msg1520103

And I have no idea of what you are talking about by the ?

You need to begin not posting in areas where you lack sufficient expertise, like oil and gas operations.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

I haven't read the paper. Please point me to it, and what other injections had occurred.

There is no paper.  It is a basic activity in oil and gas operations.

If you must read something, read this that shows in 2014 a good % of frac water in the Pennsylvania shales is recycled and/or reused, not disposed.

http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/subject/advcoun/solidwst/2015/1-15-15/Water_Recycling_and_Oil_and_Gas_Waste.pdf

Email the author if you have questions.  He works for the Pennsylvania state government.

[Sanguine]

You are obviously not understanding oil and gas operations. Do you understand the previous post I made that explains the difference? http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,291663.msg1520103.html#msg1520103

And I have no idea of what you are talking about by the ?

You need to begin not posting in areas where you lack sufficient expertise, like oil and gas operations.

I'm just curious - what is it about the original comment that made you react like that? 

[IsailedawayfromFR]

I'm just curious - what is it about the original comment that made you react like that?

He is equating the disposal of water to the injection of water for frac purposes.
They are definitely not synonymous.

[Sanguine]

He is equating the disposal of water to the injection of water for frac purposes.
They are definitely not synonymous.

I got that, and you know that and I know that, but why the antagonism?  That's the part I meant.  I really don't get it.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

I got that, and you know that and I know that, but why the antagonism?  That's the part I meant.  I really don't get it.

It is misleading, hopefully unintentionally rather than intentionally, that conveys an impression that all fraccing and water disposal is bad as it causes earthquakes.

After repeated attempts to convey the truth, I still do not know if innocence or an agenda is in play here.

This is not the first instance of this happening either.

[Sanguine]

It is misleading, hopefully unintentionally rather than intentionally, that conveys an impression that all fraccing and water disposal is bad as it causes earthquakes.

After repeated attempts to convey the truth, I still do not know if innocence or an agenda is in play here.

This is not the first instance of this happening either.

OK, I give.  I don't think that's what was at play here, but I could be wrong.  Now, a couple of posters on page one - that might be a different story.

[KingsX]

Oklahoma quakes this year top tremors in California

June 19, 2014

" Oklahoma has now surpassed California in quakes, and seismologists see no end in sight, CNN meteorologist Chad Myers said.

California has recorded about 140 3.0-magnitude quakes or greater, compared to 207 in Oklahoma."

http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/19/us/oklahoma-earthquakes-wastewater-wells/index.html


LA Times

Oklahoma's earthquake threat now equals California's because of man-made temblors, USGS says

March 1, 2017

" The earthquake risk for Oklahoma and southern Kansas is expected to remain significant in 2017, threatening 3 million people with seismic events that can produce damaging shaking, according to a new U.S. Geological Survey forecast released Wednesday.

The seismic risk is forecast to be so high that the chance of damage in Oklahoma and southern Kansas is expected to be similar to that of earthquakes in California, USGS scientists writing in the journal Seismological Research Letters said Wednesday.  "

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-oklahome-earthquake-20170301-story.html

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Oklahoma quakes this year top tremors in California

June 19, 2014

" Oklahoma has now surpassed California in quakes, and seismologists see no end in sight, CNN meteorologist Chad Myers said.

California has recorded about 140 3.0-magnitude quakes or greater, compared to 207 in Oklahoma."

http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/19/us/oklahoma-earthquakes-wastewater-wells/index.html


LA Times

Oklahoma's earthquake threat now equals California's because of man-made temblors, USGS says

March 1, 2017

" The earthquake risk for Oklahoma and southern Kansas is expected to remain significant in 2017, threatening 3 million people with seismic events that can produce damaging shaking, according to a new U.S. Geological Survey forecast released Wednesday.

The seismic risk is forecast to be so high that the chance of damage in Oklahoma and southern Kansas is expected to be similar to that of earthquakes in California, USGS scientists writing in the journal Seismological Research Letters said Wednesday.  "

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-oklahome-earthquake-20170301-story.html

Instead of fawning over the numbers of very small tremors, why don't you catalog instead the numbers of tremors that have caused significant destruction?

Isn't that the really important number anyway?

[KingsX]

Instead of fawning over the numbers of very small tremors, why don't you catalog instead the numbers of tremors that have caused significant destruction?

Isn't that the really important number anyway?

Like the New Madrid... and how Ouachita intersects with Reelfoot  ??

[Cyber Liberty]

OK, I give.  I don't think that's what was at play here, but I could be wrong.  Now, a couple of posters on page one - that might be a different story.

You only had to wait just a little bit, @Sanguine.   

[Sanguine]

You only had to wait just a little bit, @Sanguine.   

Yes, the fault is in the stars or something....

[Suppressed]

You are obviously not understanding oil and gas operations. Do you understand the previous post I made that explains the difference? http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,291663.msg1520103.html#msg1520103

And I have no idea of what you are talking about by the ?

You need to begin not posting in areas where you lack sufficient expertise, like oil and gas operations.

If you don't understand that hydraulic fracturing can result in waste that's disposed of by injection, then you don't understand it.

[Suppressed]

There is no paper.  It is a basic activity in oil and gas operations.

If you must read something, read this that shows in 2014 a good % of frac water in the Pennsylvania shales is recycled and/or reused, not disposed.

http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/subject/advcoun/solidwst/2015/1-15-15/Water_Recycling_and_Oil_and_Gas_Waste.pdf

Email the author if you have questions.  He works for the Pennsylvania state government.

Holland was referring to Oklahoma, not Pennsylcania. Please try reading before posting.

[Suppressed]

He is equating the disposal of water to the injection of water for frac purposes.
They are definitely not synonymous.

No, he isn't. 

Do you think nuclear waste isn't a part of "nuclear power"?

[Suppressed]

It is misleading, hopefully unintentionally rather than intentionally, that conveys an impression that all fraccing and water disposal is bad as it causes earthquakes.

After repeated attempts to convey the truth, I still do not know if innocence or an agenda is in play here.

This is not the first instance of this happening either.

Yeah, you're reading a lot that ain't there.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

If you don't understand that hydraulic fracturing can result in waste that's disposed of by injection, then you don't understand it.

There once again you display ignorance on oil and gas operations.

Hydraulic fracturing uses fluids including water, some of which is produced back.  Of that which is produced back, a lot of it, as I have already shown you, is re-used in other frac operations.

I really do not know what else to tell somebody that refuses to understand what fraccing and water disposal really are.

[Bigun]

No, he isn't. 

Do you think nuclear waste isn't a part of "nuclear power"?

I can tell you with absolute certainty that there is all manner of liquid waste disposed of in injection wells and most of it has nothing at all to do with hydraulic fracking.