Author Topic: Long Before Assault Allegations, Roy Moore Betrayed Conservatism: He was Not a Conservative to Begin with  (Read 5538 times)

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Offline Sighlass

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Not me.
Were there any sort of evidence I would be leading the charge against Moore.

It is a matter of evidence. Not gossip mongering.

Exactly, I have wrote in candidates for the President going on 3 elections now. If proven against Moore, I know how to write in someone else.
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Offline Sighlass

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Sorry, whoever posted that clipped bit of one column of that article edited the bejeebers out of the article and took that out of context. I provided the whole article to put those lines back in context, and did not mean that you, personally had done the edit. I'm just disappointed that with a few mouse clicks such things can be found and we can see what was really said,  but people are too lazy to look for the whole picture.

According to articles I have seen, He was not banned from any mall. Link any statement to the contrary, please.
If there is a policeman who says he was, please link that and provide a name.

What family members have spoken against him? Link, please.
 
The people who worked for him rolled their eyes (if you read the ENTIRE clipping), because Moore thought people in the office were dragging things out for profit, and that he seemed to think (in their estimation) he was the only one there who wasn't corrupt. That's a work thing, not sexual misconduct. The two do not equate. If you have information otherwise, please link it. I saw the vapid statements like "oh, I could tell you things, but won't" which amount to crap, especially in a context which relates more to job performance than personal (sexual) conduct.

That leaves two women who claim sexual contact and one who says he allegedly grabbed her ass on the way out the door.  The latter seems pretty out of place for behaviour short of a strip bar, and that will get you thrown out of most of those, so I'm not seeing it. One has produced a yearbook with some sketchy possible modifications to an alleged signature. There is back and forth about how much of her divorce case he personally dealt with. And one who produced a lurid, incredibly detailed account of how he had allegedly had contact with her while she was under age.

No one else claims he acted improperly toward them.

There is a lot of imagery and set dressing trying to frame Roy Moore as some sort of sex maniac, a man who cannot restrain some sort of overwhelming urge to engage in sexual contact with unwilling ladies, and even to paint him as a "child molester". What I am seeing is a lot of innuendo, and stuff left to the lurid imaginations of the readers. But little verifiable information, which boils down to a situation where people believe what they want to believe. Most of the set dressing blows away when remarks are put back into context, full comments are read, or information is accurately disclosed.

If you believe the guy who twice lost his job for defying District Judges' orders, once to take down the Ten Commandments, and once to issue gay marriage licenses (against the Alabama Constitution) is some sort of serial "child molester" or sex maniac, That's up to you, but I'm, going to disagree. There has been plenty of time for these allegations to have surfaced, numerous opportunities to make some moral objection to Judge Moore running for an office. That just hasn't happened until it looks like he might actually have a shot (leading in the polls) at being elected as a US Senator. Then, and only then, have the long media knives come out, despite his having been embroiled in numerous political controversies.

When he had beaten Strange and had a double digit poll lead over Jones, then this happened. Sorry, but imho, that stinks on ice.

Yep, the Mall allegations were pretty out there, CNN interviews some guy that was a kid working in a record store and he stammers that Roy was on some ban list and a police officer named JD told him this. YouTube is suddenly flooded with stories about it...every fake YT news account possible does a video with a fake computer voice spamming it. In the meanwhile, the local Fox station tracks down the long time Mall manager for those years (1981-mid 90s) and he says Roy Moore was not on any ban list whatsoever. Yet the liberal media runs with one story and not the other. Wonder why?

http://www.wbrc.com/clip/13905910/former-gadsden-mall-manager-says-roy-moore-wasnt-banned

@Smokin Joe
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Yep, the Mall allegations were pretty out there, CNN interviews some guy that was a kid working in a record store and he stammers that Roy was on some ban list and a police officer named JD told him this. YouTube is suddenly flooded with stories about it...every fake YT news account possible does a video with a fake computer voice spamming it. In the meanwhile, the local Fox station tracks down the long time Mall manager for those years (1981-mid 90s) and he says Roy Moore was not on any ban list whatsoever. Yet the liberal media runs with one story and not the other. Wonder why?

http://www.wbrc.com/clip/13905910/former-gadsden-mall-manager-says-roy-moore-wasnt-banned

@Smokin Joe
Thanks! That was the link I was looking for.

There have been lots of allegations, every one of which is presented in the worst possible light by the media, even with distortions as if they added weight to allegations of wrongdoing. I keep hearing "five" but in reality there are two, maybe a third who claims he grabbed her ass as she was leaving his office. That seems unlikely to me, especially in the office as she is walking out the door.

Only one alleges anything untoward while she was underage, not five women.
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Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Offline Suppressed

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I've noticed that YOU and all the rest of those here ready to crucify Roy Moore not saying a SINGLE word about this!

http://americanlookout.com/evening-news-shows-at-abc-cbs-and-nbc-have-given-zero-coverage-to-democrats-corruption-trial/

You should post the TBR link where you posted it, @Bigun.
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Online kevindavis007

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How can you betray a dead ideology?  Conservatism is now an emotional stunted, intellectually retarded, and megalomaniacal spoiled brat.  I see no reason why pedophilia can't be part of the exclusive Bannon tent.

Drain the swamp, and refill with sewage.

Winning.


Then continue to yell and scream..
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Online kevindavis007

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He's an extremist. He was twice removed from office for violating the law. He's a birther and a creationist. He wants to ban Muslims from serving in Congress. He's not an anti-establishment hero. He's a nut.


 :amen:
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Online kevindavis007

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Also Roy Moore did speak at a Council of Conservative Citizens (which is  a white supremacist group) gathering.
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Silver Pines

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Sorry, whoever posted that clipped bit of one column of that article edited the bejeebers out of the article and took that out of context. I provided the whole article to put those lines back in context, and did not mean that you, personally had done the edit. I'm just disappointed that with a few mouse clicks such things can be found and we can see what was really said,  but people are too lazy to look for the whole picture.

According to articles I have seen, He was not banned from any mall. Link any statement to the contrary, please.
If there is a policeman who says he was, please link that and provide a name.

What family members have spoken against him? Link, please.
 
The people who worked for him rolled their eyes (if you read the ENTIRE clipping), because Moore thought people in the office were dragging things out for profit, and that he seemed to think (in their estimation) he was the only one there who wasn't corrupt. That's a work thing, not sexual misconduct. The two do not equate. If you have information otherwise, please link it. I saw the vapid statements like "oh, I could tell you things, but won't" which amount to crap, especially in a context which relates more to job performance than personal (sexual) conduct.

That leaves two women who claim sexual contact and one who says he allegedly grabbed her ass on the way out the door.  The latter seems pretty out of place for behaviour short of a strip bar, and that will get you thrown out of most of those, so I'm not seeing it. One has produced a yearbook with some sketchy possible modifications to an alleged signature. There is back and forth about how much of her divorce case he personally dealt with. And one who produced a lurid, incredibly detailed account of how he had allegedly had contact with her while she was under age.

No one else claims he acted improperly toward them.

There is a lot of imagery and set dressing trying to frame Roy Moore as some sort of sex maniac, a man who cannot restrain some sort of overwhelming urge to engage in sexual contact with unwilling ladies, and even to paint him as a "child molester". What I am seeing is a lot of innuendo, and stuff left to the lurid imaginations of the readers. But little verifiable information, which boils down to a situation where people believe what they want to believe. Most of the set dressing blows away when remarks are put back into context, full comments are read, or information is accurately disclosed.

If you believe the guy who twice lost his job for defying District Judges' orders, once to take down the Ten Commandments, and once to issue gay marriage licenses (against the Alabama Constitution) is some sort of serial "child molester" or sex maniac, That's up to you, but I'm, going to disagree. There has been plenty of time for these allegations to have surfaced, numerous opportunities to make some moral objection to Judge Moore running for an office. That just hasn't happened until it looks like he might actually have a shot (leading in the polls) at being elected as a US Senator. Then, and only then, have the long media knives come out, despite his having been embroiled in numerous political controversies.

When he had beaten Strange and had a double digit poll lead over Jones, then this happened. Sorry, but imho, that stinks on ice.

@Smokin Joe

Can you ping me if you're replying to me?  Thanks.

Sorry, but nothing was taken out of context and nothing was deceptively edited.  Ben Shapiro retweeted the clipping from Timothy Burke.  I scrolled down Burke's timeline; instead of linking to the entire article, he posted the whole thing. 

However, even if he had posted only the clipping, it wouldn't have mattered.  Absolutely nothing in the rest of the article contradicted or nullified the clipping itself.





You're asking me for the most basic of facts which have not, by the way, been refuted in any way.  They're available all over the place at just about any news source you could want; I don't even understand how you could be unfamiliar with them.  I told you earlier I'm not going to do your research for you.

However, it's Sunday, so:

https://www.snopes.com/2017/11/17/roy-moore-banned-mall-harassing-teen-girls/

Names included.





Silver Pines

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Thanks! That was the link I was looking for.

There have been lots of allegations, every one of which is presented in the worst possible light by the media, even with distortions as if they added weight to allegations of wrongdoing. I keep hearing "five" but in reality there are two, maybe a third who claims he grabbed her ass as she was leaving his office. That seems unlikely to me, especially in the office as she is walking out the door.

Only one alleges anything untoward while she was underage, not five women.

@Smokin Joe

@Sighlass

Except this guy started work at the mall in the '80s.  Moore was cruising for teenagers in the '70s.  Also, he says Moore wasn't banned "as far as he knows."  And, as the article I just linked in my previous post states, mall records don't go back that far. 

Online kevindavis007

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He also falsely claims that whole communities in Illinois and Indiana are living under Islamic Sharia Law. As PolitiFact notes "it is legally impossible for any community in the United States to be ‘under Sharia law’ because it would have to be enacted as the law of the state, and that is unconstitutional under the First Amendment."


Last time I checked, The ninth commandment says, You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor (Exodus 20:16). Maybe Mr Moore should have practiced in what he preached.
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Offline jpsb

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Molested her in a non-existent parking lot, yet.

non-existent parking lot ???

Offline skeeter

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non-existent parking lot ???

The molested 16 yr old reportedly said it happened in the parking lot behind where she worked, but supposedly there is no such lot.

Offline jpsb

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The molested 16 yr old reportedly said it happened in the parking lot behind where she worked, but supposedly there is no such lot.

OK thanks, that kind of blows her Moore story all to hell.

Offline Major Confusion

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Offline TomSea

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The molested 16 yr old reportedly said it happened in the parking lot behind where she worked, but supposedly there is no such lot.
Quote


Listings for a restaurant called Old Hickory House Bar B Que — no fake-archaic “e” — show an address at 1715 U.S. 431 (which, in Gadsden, is identical to East Meighan Blvd.) and say it was established in 2001. The phone number for the restaurant has been disconnected, and it’s unclear if it is still open. But it turns out that Gadsden has had more than one restaurant with that name over the years. William Thornton, a reporter for AL.com, dug up a city directory of Gadsden from 1978, which lists a restaurant called . . . Olde Hickory House, address 305 East Meighan Blvd:

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/453723/olde-hickory-houses

Like a lot of issues in this case, things are not always straightforward.

It's not clear enough, if that is the "Olde Hickory House" of the 1970s or the "Old Hickory House" of the 2000s.  I haven't read that the '70s Hickory House did not have such a parking lot behind it, in what I would envision as a dusty parking lot behind the restaurant.

I'd like to see an exact quote in a story that such a parking lot did not exist at the '70s restuarant.

Silver Pines

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OK thanks, that kind of blows her Moore story all to hell.

@jpsb
@skeeter

Lord have mercy, where are you getting your news?  That was one of the garbage lies Moore's wife was spreading all over Facebook. 

"However, contemporary records show it did exist.

A 1978 City Directory for the Gadsden-Attalla area in the reference room at the Gadsden Public Library lists the restaurant, The Olde Hickory House, as being at 305 East Meighan Boulevard."

Numerous sources have refuted this lie.  The Moores really do act innocent, don't they.

http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/11/moore_defenders_claim_gadsden.html

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2017/11/14/desperate-roy-moores-wife-keeps-spreading-fake-news-defenses-of-her-husband-which-doesnt-look-good-for-him-n2409408


http://dailycaller.com/2017/11/14/moores-wife-spreads-fake-news-about-restaurant-where-alleged-assault-happened/



Oceander

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Innocent until proven guilty is not merely for legal matters @musiclady . It is the standard which prevents false accusations.

Baloney.  It’s not even for all legal matters, only criminal matters.

Offline Sighlass

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@Smokin Joe

@Sighlass

Except this guy started work at the mall in the '80s.  Moore was cruising for teenagers in the '70s.  Also, he says Moore wasn't banned "as far as he knows."  And, as the article I just linked in my previous post states, mall records don't go back that far. 

Yes, the EXACT years the record fellow that said he worked at the mall that claimed Roy was on a list. The very same years as a matter of fact... 1981-85 is what the record store fellow said he worked (in a record store) at the mall. Again, if claiming one fellow as a reliable source, you can not claim the other unreliable since he worked (at a more in the know position as Mall manager) during the same years.

Here is the video of the fellow at CNN saying the Auburn Record fellow worked from 1981-85 (and I will do your homework for you since you mentioned not liking to do it and also say it is around 30 seconds into the clip).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNIGUgmKGSk

If the mall manager (who's job it would be to know banned people) is not a good source for those years (He worked as Mall manager from 1981 to 1996), why is your man (source) not given the same consideration of being a reliable source? Even Snopes has said it was based on a "rumor".... then it tries to hide that revelation by linking to other allegations (by the women) that are not even related to the question of whether Roy was banned or not. 

@Smokin Joe @CatherineofAragon

Also, it would seem that a person banned in 1979 would still be banned in 1981 unless it was known they had died.

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Baloney.  It’s not even for all legal matters, only criminal matters.

Then how does one protect the system from false witness? All y'all are taught to suspend disbelief every time you turn on a tv or go to the show. If you think yourself capable of winnowing gossip to discern truth, you're flat wrong. There is little truth in gossip.

That is why a free people relies upon facts, and facts derive from evidence.

Offline Smokin Joe

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@Smokin Joe

@Sighlass

Except this guy started work at the mall in the '80s.  Moore was cruising for teenagers in the '70s.  Also, he says Moore wasn't banned "as far as he knows."  And, as the article I just linked in my previous post states, mall records don't go back that far.
Yeah I got all that at the link.

Right.

The big 404 on a Snopes page. "either there’s a typo in your link or we just haven’t written that article yet"

 



How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Silver Pines

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Yes, the EXACT years the record fellow that said he worked at the mall that claimed Roy was on a list. The very same years as a matter of fact... 1981-85 is what the record store fellow said he worked (in a record store) at the mall. Again, if claiming one fellow as a reliable source, you can not claim the other unreliable since he worked (at a more in the know position as Mall manager) during the same years.

Here is the video of the fellow at CNN saying the Auburn Record fellow worked from 1981-85 (and I will do your homework for you since you mentioned not liking to do it and also say it is around 30 seconds into the clip).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNIGUgmKGSk

If the mall manager (who's job it would be to know banned people) is not a good source for those years (He worked as Mall manager from 1981 to 1996), why is your man (source) not given the same consideration of being a reliable source? Even Snopes has said it was based on a "rumor".... then it tries to hide that revelation by linking to other allegations (by the women) that are not even related to the question of whether Roy was banned or not. 

@Smokin Joe @CatherineofAragon

Also, it would seem that a person banned in 1979 would still be banned in 1981 unless it was known they had died.

@Sighlass

I don’t even know what you’re talking about when you say “my man” and  “my source.”  These are the facts:  the manager who made this claim did not work there when Moore was cruising for teenagers.  He claims Moore wasn’t banned “to the best of his knowledge”, which obviously leaves something to be desired.

A record store employee and a cop—-both named sources—-say he was banned, along with a mall employee who reported him for creeping on her.  And it seems to have been general knowledge among the community.

Why should I believe the manager who didn’t even work there at the time and who qualified his statement because he isn’t sure?


Silver Pines

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Yeah I got all that at the link.

Right.

The big 404 on a Snopes page. "either there’s a typo in your link or we just haven’t written that article yet"

@Smokin Joe

.....What?

I have no idea what you just said.

Offline Smokin Joe

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@Smokin Joe

.....What?

I have no idea what you just said.
Click on your link, then. 404 PAGE not found, with what I quoted. The snopes page you linked (that article) does not exist.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online roamer_1

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We make decisions all the time without hard, tangible proof.



@CatherineofAragon

No, we don't.

Quote
If I heard that my husband was cheating on me (and that would never happen, so I feel bad saying it) I wouldn’t assume it was true.  But if I started getting confirmation from various sources, with witnesses to back it up, I would have to re-evaluate.

My buddy's wife was thus accused. I, among others at that particular meeting of minds, told him to hold his piece until he had hard evidence to back it up. I didn't believe the rumor being spread, and I didn't see how the main accuser's husband had the ability to meet her for illicit rendezvous... She's a good woman, and busy, with children around her almost all the time... It finally played out as untrue, but had he been fool enough to believe the bullshit, he'd have destroyed his marriage over nothing. No, we don't make decisions without good evidence to back them up.

Quote
That’s how it’s done outside of court.  Moore isn’t trying to stay out of jail; he’s just a politician trying for higher office.  Proof isn’t necessary to make a judgment in these cases.

It is if you want good men to bother to run for office.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2017, 09:59:23 pm by roamer_1 »

Silver Pines

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Click on your link, then. 404 PAGE not found, with what I quoted. The snopes page you linked (that article) does not exist.

@Smokin Joe

Yes, it is.  I read it earlier, and I just read it again.

https://www.snopes.com/2017/11/17/roy-moore-banned-mall-harassing-teen-girls/