Author Topic: How Should Honest Conservatives Decide the Roy Moore Case Come Election Day?  (Read 1066 times)

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Offline SirLinksALot

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SOURCE: NATIONAL REVIEW

URL: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/453706/alabama-senate-race-reject-roy-moore-character-matters-write-in-jeff-sessions

by Ben Shapiro



Was a 14-year-old girl molested by Alabama Senate Republican candidate Roy Moore, or is she lying? It’s a yes-or-no question.

Was a 16-year-old girl sexually assaulted by Moore, or is she lying? Again, it’s a yes-or-no question.

Finally, do you believe that there are conditions under which a child molester should sit in the United States Senate? Again, this question is binary.

Yet many conservatives seem to be seeking a third answer to all three of these questions, mostly to avoid giving straight answers.

Let’s begin with the first question: Did Roy Moore molest a 14-year-old girl? Did he meet her at an Alabama courthouse, get her phone number, pick her up from her mother’s home, and drive her to his own, proceed to undress her and touch her sexually, then force her to touch him? Or was this all made up?

Brevity-Its' the Rules
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 04:15:37 PM by MOD4 »

Offline SirLinksALot

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RE: didn’t “generally” date teenagers when he was in his 30s,

THAT MEANS THAT HE DID.

Some questions:

  • What is the age of consent in Alabama?
  • What did "dating" teens consist of? How far did they go?

RE:  “I’m not going to dispute anything, but I don’t remember anything like that”

That tells me that he is trying to dodge the question. A man who has nothing to hide would say -- I DID NOT DO ANYTHING IMMORAL. This is not the answer that assures.




Offline DiogenesLamp

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RE: didn’t “generally” date teenagers when he was in his 30s,

THAT MEANS THAT HE DID.

Some questions:

  • What is the age of consent in Alabama?
  • What did "dating" teens consist of? How far did they go?

RE:  “I’m not going to dispute anything, but I don’t remember anything like that”

That tells me that he is trying to dodge the question. A man who has nothing to hide would say -- I DID NOT DO ANYTHING IMMORAL. This is not the answer that assures.


When the debate field has been set up with the premise that "Dating Teenagers= Molesting 14 year old girl",   It would become difficult to admit you dated teenagers.   

Had the accusation simply been "He dated teenagers",    it would have been one thing.   But by including the "He molested a 14 year old girl"  and implying that dating teenagers establishes this other accusation as true,   it becomes another thing.   


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RE: didn’t “generally” date teenagers when he was in his 30s,

THAT MEANS THAT HE DID.

Some questions:

  • What is the age of consent in Alabama?
  • What did "dating" teens consist of? How far did they go?

RE:  “I’m not going to dispute anything, but I don’t remember anything like that”

That tells me that he is trying to dodge the question. A man who has nothing to hide would say -- I DID NOT DO ANYTHING IMMORAL. This is not the answer that assures.

The problem is that for sure he went on one date with an 18 y/o. Legal but still a teenager, as is 19. So if he said he didn't date teenagers he would be lying, but so far there's no proof of anyone underage.

That of course wouldn't stop the media from hanging him on it.
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Offline bilo

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When the debate field has been set up with the premise that "Dating Teenagers= Molesting 14 year old girl",   It would become difficult to admit you dated teenagers.   

Had the accusation simply been "He dated teenagers",    it would have been one thing.   But by including the "He molested a 14 year old girl"  and implying that dating teenagers establishes this other accusation as true,   it becomes another thing.

I think the rush to judgement on claims of crimes from 40 years before is terrible. The age of consent in AL. is 16 or 17. Judge Moore was returning to his hometown after serving in the military in his early 30's. It wasn't very likely that he was going to find ladies to date in their mid to late 20's. Also, he says that any lady he dated was with her mother's permission. I'm not buying any of these allegations.

The willingness of Pubs to throw Judge Moore under the bus is just one more nail in the coffin for the Pub party. Whatever happened to show me the proof? The only evidence is testimony of women that claim something happened 40 years ago. This hysteria reminds me of the McMartin child abuse case 30 years ago(?). In this case the operators of a daycare ctr. were accused of all kinds of child molestation, tearful testimony of infants and parents were enough to prosecute the couple. After a long expensive court process people finally woke up and saw it was a witch hunt from the get go.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMartin_preschool_trial

Just like the 1980's witch hunts over child abuse where any allegation was automatically believed to be fact and the defendant was responsible for proving their innocence today any claim of sex abuse is believed and the defendant is responsible for proving their innocence. I don't believe any accusations made 40 years after the fact.

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Offline INVAR

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How will Republicans decide on Roy Moore? Perhaps they’ll convince themselves that Moore is innocent; perhaps they’ll convince themselves that the ends justify the means. Or perhaps they’ll make an objective judgment about the allegations against Moore and remind themselves that character still matters in life and even in politics.

How about they use their brains and measure the fruits of the last 40 years of public service Moore has been engaged and involved in?  Does it suggest this guy possesses unrepentant serial abusive sexual behavior with women other than his wife?  Does it say that Moore cannot be trusted with the office Alabama's citizens want him to minister them from?
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Online Free Vulcan

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Let me boil this down to two words: Herman Cain.

What happened to Cain is near identical to the tactic being pulled on Moore, almost to the letter.

Multiple accusers, shady accusers, stories that didn't add up. Accusations of assault. Gloria Allred jumping in.

And guess what? Herman Cain dropped out, and all the accusers went away into the woodwork. Not a peep since.

Now we have this wash.rinse.repeat being done on Moore. And people wonder why a number of us here are skeptical?

Anyone who knows what happened to Herman Cain can understand why we want concrete proof.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 02:09:42 PM by Free Vulcan »
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Offline Hoodat

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An honest Conservative should push for repeal of the 17th Amendment.  Then we wouldn't be in this mess.
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Offline Bigun

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An honest Conservative should push for repeal of the 17th Amendment.  Then we wouldn't be in this mess.

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Offline jmyrlefuller

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Quote
Any evil so grave that we must elect sexual abusers to stop it is an evil that merits a violent response.
Yeah, that's not going to happen any time soon. If violence gets drawn into this, the government will slaughter the perpetrators.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 02:17:28 PM by jmyrlefuller »
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Offline SirLinksALot

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The problem is that for sure he went on one date with an 18 y/o. Legal but still a teenager, as is 19. So if he said he didn't date teenagers he would be lying, but so far there's no proof of anyone underage.

Princess Diana married Charles when he was 34 and she was just 20. Did they date prior to the marriage? If so, then what's the problem? Nobody called that relationship yucky.

Offline INVAR

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Princess Diana married Charles when he was 34 and she was just 20. Did they date prior to the marriage? If so, then what's the problem? Nobody called that relationship yucky.

It doesn't fit the current narrative the media and the Oligarchy running the Beast need in order to ensure their rule is not jeopardized by someone who might not follow orders.
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Offline InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

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Seems to me the best thing is to elect him, then deal with him if the allegations are proven.

That keeps the seat away from the Dems, without cheating (changing the election date just because your side is in trouble).  If the allegations aren't proven the Dems didn't get to use their trick.

Actually, the best thing, if he knows there's nothing to find, might be for Moore to come out with both barrels and point out to the world that this is just a dirty trick.

OK, what are the CHANCES now of Moore winning this election come December with all these allegations coming out and with Republicans left and right distancing themselves from him?
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 04:38:55 PM by SirLinksALot »

Online Frank Cannon

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How Should Honest Conservatives Decide the Roy Moore Case Come Election Day?

Excellent. Some Kalifornia moron is going to inject his morals on AL voters. Maybe if Benny didn't live in a shithole state, he might have some authority on the matter, but considering there isn't one elected GOPer in the CA anymore he should mind his own business.
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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Princess Diana married Charles when he was 34 and she was just 20. Did they date prior to the marriage? If so, then what's the problem? Nobody called that relationship yucky.


It actually was pretty yucky.   Charles was a goofy looking and weird fellow,  and Diana could have done a lot better. 

But it wasn't yucky because of the age difference,  though that didn't help. 


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Offline SirLinksALot

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Quote
Seems to me the best thing is to elect him, then deal with him if the allegations are proven.

That keeps the seat away from the Dems, without cheating (changing the election date just because your side is in trouble).  If the allegations aren't proven the Dems didn't get to use their trick.

Actually, the best thing, if he knows there's nothing to find, might be for Moore to come out with both barrels and point out to the world that this is just a dirty trick.

OK, what are the CHANCES now of Moore winning this election come December with all these allegations coming out and with Republicans left and right distancing themselves from him?

Online Frank Cannon

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OK, what are the CHANCES now of Moore winning this election come December with all these allegations coming out and with Republicans left and right distancing themselves from him?

Does it matter?
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Offline roamer_1

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OK, what are the CHANCES now of Moore winning this election come December with all these allegations coming out and with Republicans left and right distancing themselves from him?

Better than fair. Unless somebody actually proves something, I'll bet he'll win

Offline TomSea

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Posted in the editorial section too.... well, Ben Shapiro in Sunny San Diego, I disagree with some of his views in the past, per voting. So, he's tackling a hot topic but I'd rather here what Shapiro's debate sparring partner Jesse Lee Peterson says, JLP is from that state too.

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Some questions:

  • What is the age of consent in Alabama?
  • What did "dating" teens consist of? How far did they go?


Pretty simple answers.  "16" is the answer to the first one. 

https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/alabama-age-of-consent-lawyers.html?redesigned=1

The second depends on what evidence exists. Which we're not going to see, if McConnell and his friends have anything to say about it.  We are to take his, McCain's and Flake's word for it.
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Offline jmyrlefuller

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OK, what are the CHANCES now of Moore winning this election come December with all these allegations coming out and with Republicans left and right distancing themselves from him?
About the same as Trump's were of winning the general election last year. It's a longshot, but doable. Plus, this is Alabama, where there's still a GOP advantage.
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About the same as Trump's were of winning the general election last year. It's a longshot, but doable. Plus, this is Alabama, where there's still a GOP advantage.

Alabamans are a rather proud group, as a people.  Deepest of the Deep South.  They are probably laughing off the firestorm, except for the folks in Birmingham and Montgomery, and the college towns.  But they were all pretty much anti-Moore anyway.

They are likely to show a good turnout as a way of flipping the Beltway media the finger.  Especially if the worst allegations are unproven at election time.
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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Easy.  Look at the historical record.  The last 40 years of a proven Roy Moore in office vs some unsubstantiated claims from virtually unknowns.

Use the Clarence Thomas model and he will overcome.
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Offline InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

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OK, what are the CHANCES now of Moore winning this election come December with all these allegations coming out and with Republicans left and right distancing themselves from him?

I don't know, I just know what I would do if I was a AL voter.

Offline Fishrrman

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Free Vulcan wrote:
"the problem is that for sure he went on one date with an 18 y/o. Legal but still a teenager, as is 19. So if he said he didn't date teenagers he would be lying, but so far there's no proof of anyone underage."

Let's get things straight here.
The age of consent in Alabama back then -- as it is today -- was 16 years of age.

That means that as soon as a girl reaches her sixteenth birthday, she is regarded by law insofar as "matters sexual" are concerned as an adult, fully capable of giving consent to a male for whatever sexual behavior in which they choose to engage.

I see nothin' wrong with a guy in his early 30's going after 17 or 18-year olds if he can win them. Those who disagree can kiss my greasy butt.

Like the Tom T. Hall song goes:
Faster horses...
Younger women...
Older whiskey...
More money.


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