Author Topic: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know  (Read 28174 times)

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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
« Reply #425 on: November 21, 2017, 07:24:17 pm »
You are still favoring democracy when you know darn well this isn't a democracy but a Constitutional republic.    Some things aren't to be taken away by a majoritarian mob - religion-fueled or otherwise.  One of those things is the law's equal protection.


All I can do is restate my previous point regarding slavery under a constitutional Republic.   Slavery is the ultimate in denying "equal protection."   Therefore denying "equal protection"  is not inconsistent with a Constitutional Republic.   

You may argue that it is inconsistent with the 14th amendment,  but that is a different matter.   


If you advance that argument,  I would  point out that the 14th amendment was intended to apply to freed slaves,  not homosexuals,  who at that time (1868) were being locked up in houses of bedlam for being crazy.   

Locking up Homosexuals as insane continued until the early 1960s.   Therefore it is not even incompatible with the 14th amendment.   
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
« Reply #426 on: November 21, 2017, 07:25:53 pm »
If you had your way, DL, would you still lock them up? 
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
« Reply #427 on: November 21, 2017, 07:26:41 pm »
You are still favoring democracy when you know darn well this isn't a democracy but a Constitutional republic.    Some things aren't to be taken away by a majoritarian mob - religion-fueled or otherwise.  One of those things is the law's equal protection.
If we really want to go there, if equal protection can be extended to marriage law, then technically wouldn't they ALL be unconstitutional? After all, there are people such as myself who cannot find a willing partner to marry and are thus denied its privileges.

Your interpretation is capricious and selective, benefiting one vindictive and vocal mob of subversives over others.
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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
« Reply #428 on: November 21, 2017, 08:57:51 pm »
If you had your way, DL, would you still lock them up?


If they broke the law,  I sure would.   


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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
« Reply #429 on: November 21, 2017, 09:15:45 pm »
If we really want to go there, if equal protection can be extended to marriage law, then technically wouldn't they ALL be unconstitutional? After all, there are people such as myself who cannot find a willing partner to marry and are thus denied its privileges.

Your interpretation is capricious and selective, benefiting one vindictive and vocal mob of subversives over others.

You're kidding, right?   The principle is simple, and hardly "capricious and selective".   Find a willing partner and contract to be with him or her in perpetuity, and the state will acknowledge that partnership with benefits, protections and status.   

 Yes, I know that requires you to find a willing partner and that's easier said than done for some of us.   (I met Mrs. Jazz when I was 18,  and now I'm 60.)  But you have the same right as anyone else to find and marry the person for you.   Indeed, what's "capricious and selective" was the limitation of civil marriage only to members of the opposite sex;  as noted in a post above back in the day plenty of homosexuals sublimated their desires and married women because that was what the culture expected.  And that led to a lot of unhappy, unfulfilled spouses and divorces.   With the advent of marriage equality, there's a way ahead for all of us to find happiness and gain the community's respect for our partnership. 

Keep trying, jmyrle - as Neil Young sang, just around the next corner may be waiting your true love.       
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
« Reply #430 on: November 21, 2017, 09:16:43 pm »
No hypocrisy, sir.   Alabama's constitution doesn't Trump the federal Constitution and its guarantee of equal protection.  Gays can marry, thank God, and you can't do a damn thing about it except to mouth empty threats of violence.   
    *****rollingeyes*****
I'm not sure what "god" you are thanking, but The One I worship has spoken quite clearly on abomination. You and your 'neighbors' are free to ignore that at your eternal peril.
'Nuff said, and it has been said before.
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Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
« Reply #431 on: November 21, 2017, 09:19:26 pm »

If they broke the law,  I sure would.

But would you "lock them up in houses of bedlam for being crazy"?   That's the practice you appeared to have endorsed as consistent with "200+ years of this nation's existence".   
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
« Reply #432 on: November 21, 2017, 09:21:48 pm »
But would you "lock them up in houses of bedlam for being crazy"?   That's the practice you appeared to have endorsed as consistent with "200+ years of this nation's existence".
Hmmm. "Boy, you want to put your what, where? You are >bleeping< crazy!"

We used to quarantine carriers of deadly diseases who were contagious, too.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
« Reply #433 on: November 22, 2017, 05:39:14 am »
Now the Second Amendment applies to the states and places an absolute restriction on the ability to regulate.  As explained in Heller,  the state can regulate, but cannot deny the right of self-defense which is the purpose of the RKBA.   Hence, a ban on handguns is unconstitutional - but not a regime of registration and insurance,  except to the extent such regime is so onerous as to effectively deny the fundamental right.

And that's why marriage equality is the law of the land.   The Constitutional right at stake is the equal protection of the law.   And a state that chooses to ban the right of gays to marry under the civil law, while preserving that status for opposite sex couples,  has denied homosexuals the law's equal protection.

This is so utterly wrong on multiple accounts.  First, you argue that the Second Amendment places an absolute restriction on States, yet argue that States can regulate any way they see fit.  Nothing absolute about that.

Next, you claim that this clear contradiction is why marriage equality is the law of the land.  Your claim is utterly preposterous.

Then you offer up the strawman of States banning the right of gays to marry.  Not a single State does this.  Not a single one.  This has been pointed out to you again and again and again, yet here you are once more offering a false account of the debate.

As for your equal protection argument, let's follow through on it.  Per your argument, sales tax in California is unconstitutional because there is no sales tax in Oregon.  Motorcycle helmet laws in Oregon are unconstitutional because there is no helmet law in South Carolina.  And South Carolina state income tax laws are unconstitutional because there is no state income tax in Tennessee.

See the inane idiocy of your equal protection schtick?  Because in the end, you do not offer equal protection.  Instead, you offer tyranny based solely upon your viewpoint - a tyranny that denies the people of California from establishing their own laws according to the will of the people of California - but one that only applies when the people of California choose to do something contrary to your wishes.


That violation of the federal Constitution is why Roy Moore was removed from office for refusing to permit gays to marry in Alabama.

Roy Moore upheld Alabama law.  There was no Constitutional violation.  There was no violation of federal law.  And it is quite telling that even now, you are still unable to show otherwise.  In fact, you have shown nothing.


Alabama's constitution may define marriage as between a man and a woman, but that constitution violates the Federal Constitution's guarantee of equal protection. 

It does no such thing.  Perhaps you should actually try reading Amendment XIV for yourself instead of continuing to pretend the Constitution says things it does not say.

Seriously, you have been putting up this argument for months now, yet not once have you cited what the Constitution actually says.


So there's no contradiction in my positions -  Pennsylvania's gun laws are consistent with the Federal Constitution, but Alabama's prohibition on same sex civil marriage is not.   

There are plenty of contradictions in your positions.  The whole equal protection sham being the biggest one of all.  Before Obergfell, we already has equal protection.  But after Obergfell, sexual preference has been added to the equation.  It did not exist before, but now it does.  Except only one sexual preference is added while others are excluded.  Same sex marriage is allowed, but polygamy is not.  So much for equal protection, eh?

So all we are left with is your own personal world view with not a shred of legal or Constitutional basis to back it up.  Nothing but the tyranny you advocate for imposing your world view on others at the point of a gun while covering it with the lie that it is somehow 'constitutional'.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

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"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

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Offline TomSea

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Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
« Reply #434 on: November 22, 2017, 05:44:44 am »
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ex-ala-prevent-roy-moore-harassing-cheerleaders-article-1.3648980

Another story. Who knows? This could be something dreamed up, I'll bet the former police officer saying this is a Democrat.

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
« Reply #435 on: November 22, 2017, 05:48:33 am »
It's the law of the land. 

Please cite this law.


Why should you and me have the benefits and protections of marriage but not my neighbors?

Marriage is legally restraining.  And no one is denying you or your neighbors the right to marry.  So stop lying already.


How is fundamental fairness  - the equal protection of the law - a "radical" notion?

We already had equal protection.  Before Obergfell, California marriage law applied equally to everyone.


There is nothing that pleases me more than to see young people reject the idea that religion should serve to oppress people.   No,  that doesn't mean they've rejected Christianity, only that they view Christ's message in terms of acceptance and respect, not knee-jerk condemnation of two people living responsibly because of some stray passage in an ancient book.     

What does religion have to do with this?  Let's focus on the law, shall we?  No need for your religious bigotry, Jazzhead.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
« Reply #436 on: November 22, 2017, 05:53:28 am »
This is highly amusing.   For someone with whom i've gone round and round about the inappropriateness of using the 14th amendment to apply Federal restrictions to the states regarding religion,   you are seemingly all in favor of taking the "state's rights"  position regarding the second amendment.   

How is it appropriate to require the states to ban religion under the pretension that Federal requirements apply to the states,   but to reject this same claim when discussing the second amendment?   

You can't have it both ways.

When it comes to equality, liberals always try to have it both ways.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Sighlass

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Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
« Reply #437 on: November 22, 2017, 06:14:52 am »
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ex-ala-prevent-roy-moore-harassing-cheerleaders-article-1.3648980

Another story. Who knows? This could be something dreamed up, I'll bet the former police officer saying this is a Democrat.

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Offline corbe

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Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
« Reply #438 on: November 22, 2017, 06:18:40 am »
   Thank You for the updates @Sighlass
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
« Reply #439 on: November 22, 2017, 06:21:24 am »
   Thank You for the updates @Sighlass

See. You support Roy Moore. Nuff said.

Offline corbe

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Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
« Reply #440 on: November 22, 2017, 06:30:53 am »
   BS!  Frank  She lives in Alabama and is providing an unfiltered account of what is actually happening on the ground there you need to loosen up that tin foil a bit there's not a Moore Lover behind every tree.
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
« Reply #441 on: November 22, 2017, 06:31:21 am »
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ex-ala-prevent-roy-moore-harassing-cheerleaders-article-1.3648980

Another story. Who knows? This could be something dreamed up, I'll bet the former police officer saying this is a Democrat.
From the link...
Quote
“We were also told to watch him at the ball games and make sure that he didn’t hang around the cheerleaders,” Gray said.

“The rumor was that Roy Moore likes young girls,” she added. “It was not only in our department but at the courthouse, too.”
Gray, a 37-year police veteran who was a detective for the juvenile division at the time, said the department took no action against Moore because it never received complaints on the allegations.

Rumor was.... But no complaints, no interdiction, just rumors. Lat's not forget that Moore has had political enemies in the past, too.

Again with the "Several women" thing But I'm still at three alleging any legal wrongdoing.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 06:32:44 am by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
« Reply #442 on: November 22, 2017, 06:37:19 am »
   BS!  Frank  She lives in Alabama and is providing an unfiltered account of what is actually happening on the ground there you need to loosen up that tin foil a bit there's not a Moore Lover behind every tree.

Just like a typical Moore hater. Nuff said.

Offline RoosGirl

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Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
« Reply #443 on: November 22, 2017, 06:51:17 am »
   BS!  Frank  She lives in Alabama and is providing an unfiltered account of what is actually happening on the ground there you need to loosen up that tin foil a bit there's not a Moore Lover behind every tree.

Umm... @corbe honey, @Sighlass is a dude.

Offline corbe

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Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
« Reply #444 on: November 22, 2017, 07:02:49 am »
   Oh $hit, sorry @Sighlass I am guilty of avatar misappropriation.
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline RetBobbyMI

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Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
« Reply #445 on: November 22, 2017, 02:16:02 pm »
From the link...
Rumor was.... But no complaints, no interdiction, just rumors. Lat's not forget that Moore has had political enemies in the past, too.

Again with the "Several women" thing But I'm still at three alleging any legal wrongdoing.
Her timelines just don’t add up, not to mention what you stated above. It’s the leftist media trying to find some shred of fact to pile on. And they can’t.
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Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
« Reply #446 on: November 22, 2017, 02:38:34 pm »
Her timelines just don’t add up, not to mention what you stated above. It’s the leftist media trying to find some shred of fact to pile on. And they can’t.

Roy Moore graduated from the United States Military Academy at West Point, New York in 1969!  You know!!! The place where "We do not Lie, Cheat, or Steal and do not tolerate those who do!" was drummed into his head EVERY DAY for the entire 4 years he was there!

There is NO way in hell that guy did ANY of the crap they are trying to hang on him and most everyone in Alabama knows it!
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Offline RetBobbyMI

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Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
« Reply #447 on: November 22, 2017, 05:34:02 pm »
Roy Moore graduated from the United States Military Academy at West Point, New York in 1969!  You know!!! The place where "We do not Lie, Cheat, or Steal and do not tolerate those who do!" was drummed into his head EVERY DAY for the entire 4 years he was there!

There is NO way in hell that guy did ANY of the crap they are trying to hang on him and most everyone in Alabama knows it!
Agree, yet there are those on the left including a few unmentionables that post their leftist crap views on this site, that will try to slam West Point ethics.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid."  -- John Wayne
"Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.� ? Euripides, The Bacchae
"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.� ? Laurence J. Peter, The Peter Principle
"A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.� ? Bertrand Russell, A History of Western Philosophy

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
« Reply #448 on: November 22, 2017, 05:48:01 pm »
Agree, yet there are those on the left including a few unmentionables that post their leftist crap views on this site, that will try to slam West Point ethics.

Hitting on teenagers by a thirty-something assistant DA is not "West Point ethics".

What this boils down to is whether you want to believe the accusations or not.   On the one hand,  the accusations are from multiple sources,  on the record,  and corroborated by the reporting of an ostensibly responsible news organization.  On the other hand,  the accusations pertain to a evangelical social conservative, and we cannot abide another pro-abortion Democrat in the Senate!

Note I said "want to believe".   That's the crux of it.  We all believed Juanita Broderick, because we wanted to -  and the Democrats of course, chose not to believe.   Now some of us, without the slightest trace of irony,  are embracing the Clinton playbook - Moore may be a perv, but he's our perv, and the political stakes are so high that we willingly suspend our morality and common decency to back the man who's the enemy of our enemy. 

Whatever may happen in the election,  evangelicals will lose the most, because they have willingly conceded the moral high ground.     

 
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Offline RetBobbyMI

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Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
« Reply #449 on: November 22, 2017, 05:58:01 pm »
Hitting on teenagers by a thirty-something assistant DA is not "West Point ethics".

What this boils down to is whether you want to believe the accusations or not.   On the one hand,  the accusations are from multiple sources,  on the record,  and corroborated by the reporting of an ostensibly responsible news organization.  On the other hand,  the accusations pertain to a evangelical social conservative, and we cannot abide another pro-abortion Democrat in the Senate!

Note I said "want to believe".   That's the crux of it.  We all believed Juanita Broderick, because we wanted to -  and the Democrats of course, chose not to believe.   Now some of us, without the slightest trace of irony,  are embracing the Clinton playbook - Moore may be a perv, but he's our perv, and the political stakes are so high that we willingly suspend our morality and common decency to back the man who's the enemy of our enemy. 

Whatever may happen in the election,  evangelicals will lose the most, because they have willingly conceded the moral high ground.   
I knew Jazzy would be the first to jump on my comment. However, its not a matter of "want to believe" or not.  The accuser has the burden of proof in our society, not the accused.  So in the absence of any evidence from the accusers, there is nothing to believe from them.  So, in that case the Judge, and soon to be Senator, get the benefit of the doubt.

What will evangelical lose with Moore as a Senator from Alabama? What Moral High Ground will they concede?  I believe your views twist the facts.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid."  -- John Wayne
"Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.� ? Euripides, The Bacchae
"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.� ? Laurence J. Peter, The Peter Principle
"A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.� ? Bertrand Russell, A History of Western Philosophy