Why Carl Sagan is Truly Irreplaceable

[rangerrebew]

Why Carl Sagan is Truly Irreplaceable
No one will ever match his talent as the “gatekeeper of scientific credibility”

By Joel Achenbach


We live in Carl Sagan’s universe–awesomely vast, deeply humbling. It’s a universe that, as Sagan reminded us again and again, isn’t about us. We’re a granular element. Our presence may even be ephemeral—a flash of luminescence in a great dark ocean. Or perhaps we are here to stay, somehow finding a way to transcend our worst instincts and ancient hatreds, and eventually become a galactic species. We could even find others out there, the inhabitants of distant, highly advanced civilizations—the Old Ones, as Sagan might put it.

Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/why-carl-sagan-truly-irreplaceable-180949818/#lxgSpOTUbVRlreuQ.99

[Quix]

Trouble is,

It has been demonstrated/documented that Sagan was a paid government shill who lied for government money--particularly about UFO's etc. etc. etc. Those wanting the evidence on that score can ferret it out. For one, it was demonstrated that he was a member of a group that was responsible for managing some of the UFO secrecy, IIRC.

IIRC, Stanton Friedman also had some perceptive, choice things to say about Sagan.

I also found his philosophical blathering to be utterly unfounded ignorance.

I think that Del Tackett shreds Sagan's perspective handily in Dr Del's TRUTH PROJECT video series.

I find it a fine example of the oligarchy's death grip on media and academia that anyone who was such a paid deceptive shill for the government could be considered a "gatekeeper of scientific credibility."


However, he was a great media propagandist for the oligarchy in terms of influencing the masses.

===

I have no doubt the high priests of the Religion of Scientism will be along shortly to fiercely defend their Pope Sagan.

[Cyber Liberty]

Trouble is,

It has been demonstrated/documented that Sagan was a paid government shill who lied for government money--particularly about UFO's etc. etc. etc. Those wanting the evidence on that score can ferret it out. For one, it was demonstrated that he was a member of a group that was responsible for managing some of the UFO secrecy, IIRC.

IIRC, Stanton Friedman also had some perceptive, choice things to say about Sagan.

I also found his philosophical blathering to be utterly unfounded ignorance.

I think that Del Tackett shreds Sagan's perspective handily in Dr Del's TRUTH PROJECT video series.


However, he was a great media propagandist for the oligarchy in terms of influencing the masses.

A level of infamy that can only be aspired to by Bill Nye the Mechanical Engineer Guy.

(How ya been, Quix!  Haven't seen much activity over at Alternate page...)

[Gefn]

A level of infamy that can only be aspired to by Bill Nye the Mechanical Engineer Guy.

(How ya been, Quix!  Haven't seen much activity over at Alternate page...)

Yay @Quix is back.

As for Carl Sagan- his Cosmos made me want to be an astronomer. Alas, I couldn't learn trig.

[Frank Cannon]

Why Carl Sagan is Truly Irreplaceable

Because he gave respectability to be a pot head stoner.

[Quix]

A level of infamy that can only be aspired to by Bill Nye the Mechanical Engineer Guy.

(How ya been, Quix!  Haven't seen much activity over at Alternate page...)

@Freya

Thanks for your kind queries.

Been up to local tasks ... a charity pottery sale for a local gal with a wish etc.

And, dealing with ugly family carp with relatives in Texas.

Thanks for asking.

There's certainly plenty of propagandized blather pretending to be solid science in our era.

Most folks fail to realize that the 'scientific method' is merely ONE route to truth. And sometimes, it is NOT the most fitting route. It is the GREEK route of dissection to smaller and smaller sizes.

The HEBREW route is by KNOWING by immersion, merging etc. as in Adam KNEW Eve (via sexual intercourse).

Both methods have their strengths and weaknesses. That's why I used both in my dissertation research.

Certainly Sagan made an attractive spokesperson for a list of issues, topics etc. and for Scientism in general and astronomy in particular.

And for those who fail to think critically beneath the surface, he was an ideal propagandist shaping the private & public opinions of the masses.

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In terms of the Alt Real forum . . . have been searching for some worthwhile stuff to post ... maybe I'm not searching diligently enough.

Tom DeLonge is limping or loping along seemingly at a little better than a snail's pace. Linda Moulton Howe has some interesting things but nothing major and startlingly new. Nexus has some interesting articles but again, more slight iterations vs grandly new stuff.

Given folks' interest levels hereon . . .  and their propensities to rarely respond or even view, it's just not worth my bother to post more run-of-the-mill articles, imho.

I still believe that DeLonge WILL out some significantly new stuff--I just don't know how soon.

I certainly believe that the oligarchy is ramping up the false flags. I felt we were overdue for one about a month before the Las Vegas thing. I suspect they are going to schedule them almost weekly, if not weekly and then start to intensify them.

They will likely try and use the emotions around such to shove gun control down our throats--very irrationally--I hope the perpetrators of such get run out of town on a rail after a vigorous tarring and feathering (figuratively, of course--LOL).

I still think we are overdue for a major quake on the LEFT coast.

The surprisingly long standing quake swarm in Yellowstone is somewhat interesting.

There are subtle to not-so-subtle iterations of military disclosures of historic UFO/USO's cases from high ranking participants. But nothing all that new has been revealed, imho.

Occasionally there's more blips about Antarctica or major sightings over major cities etc. etc. but mostly it's more of the same from older stories--merely with more happening in broad daylight--with high quality witnesses more willing to speak up.

Anyway--please feel free to post yourself on Alt Real ... I do check in there virtually several times a day.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Sagan's quote "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" is one of my favorites, and a basis for how I conduct a lot of debates with spurious claims online.

[Victoria33]

@Quix

You said, "It has been demonstrated/documented that Sagan was a paid government shill who lied for government money--particularly about UFO's etc. etc. etc. Those wanting the evidence on that score can ferret it out. For one, it was demonstrated that he was a member of a group that was responsible for managing some of the UFO secrecy, IIRC."

I doubt your claim about Sagan and think my son, Wayne, a space physics/astronomy major at Rice University, years ago, would also dispute your claim.

When Wayne was 14 yrs. old, I paid for him to go off the coast of Africa to view a complete eclipse. He got himself, at that age, flying from Texas to New York City, getting a taxi to take him to the ship dock, and boarding a ship to go to Africa.  He was on that ship with Sagan and two astronauts.  Sagan and the two astronauts gave lectures on the way. Being the youngest person on board for that trip, Sagan befriended Wayne.  Wayne kept up with Sagan through the years.

As for me, the mother, when I put 14 yr. old Wayne on that plane to New York, we didn't have cell phone or email capability, and I didn't know what was happening to him for the week he was gone.  Would he be able to get off the ship and back to New York airport and on a plane home?  We were to pick him up at a certain time at Houston airport. My husband said for me not to worry if he wasn't on the plane, we would find where he was.  He did get off that plane.  Wayne told me I no longer had to worry about him, that he could take care of himself away from home.

[Quix]

@Quix

You said, "It has been demonstrated/documented that Sagan was a paid government shill who lied for government money--particularly about UFO's etc. etc. etc. Those wanting the evidence on that score can ferret it out. For one, it was demonstrated that he was a member of a group that was responsible for managing some of the UFO secrecy, IIRC."

I doubt your claim about Sagan and think my son, Wayne, a space physics/astronomy major at Rice University, years ago, would also dispute your claim.

When Wayne was 14 yrs. old, I paid for him to go off the coast of Africa to view a complete eclipse. He got himself, at that age, flying from Texas to New York City, getting a taxi to take him to the ship dock, and boarding a ship to go to Africa.  He was on that ship with Sagan and two astronauts.  Sagan and the two astronauts gave lectures on the way. Being the youngest person on board for that trip, Sagan befriended Wayne.  Wayne kept up with Sagan through the years.

As for me, the mother, when I put 14 yr. old Wayne on that plane to New York, we didn't have cell phone or email capability, and I didn't know what was happening to him for the week he was gone.  Would he be able to get off the ship and back to New York airport and on a plane home?  We were to pick him up at a certain time at Houston airport. My husband said for me not to worry if he wasn't on the plane, we would find where he was.  He did get off that plane.  Wayne told me I no longer had to worry about him, that he could take care of himself away from home.

Understand your skepticism.

Maybe I can dig the sources up without too much trouble.

Congrats on managing your son so splendidly.

Am glad Sagan was kind to your son.

Some of Sagan's later public remarks contradicted some of his earlier pronouncements about life 'out there.'

[Quix]

@Victoria33



IIRC, there were other fairly high quality sources close to Sagan that asserted similar things about his true beliefs re UFOs and about his being essentially a shill for the government as a hired 'debunker.'



https://www.thesaganconspiracy.com/


MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT!



On Dec. 25, 2017, I will introduce scientific evidence discovered by the late Carl Sagan that indisputably confirms that extraterrestrials exist and have been to our planet in historical times. In my book, The Sagan conspiracy, I proved that Carl crafted a science-based theoretical model of ancient alien-ism six years before Erich von Daniken wrote Chariots of the Gods. Carl's paper, written at Stanford University, was quickly suppressed by NASA and became, for all intents and purposes, a lost document. It was my great honor to reproduce it in its entirety in my book.



What I hinted at in The Sagan Conspiracy, but didn't state with clarity, is that along with the recovery of Sagan's Stanford Paper, I have been in possession of the "smoking gun" that confirms Sagan's hypothesis. As my Christmas gift to the world, this evidence will be introduced with no charge on a dedicated website. On the 25th, the name of the website will be posted on my Facebook and Twitter accounts and on this website.



The posted manuscript will be both a Declaration of Discovery and a Call to Test. I will invite experts to subject the data to the most stringent test possible, with full confidence that my claim to have found the smoking gun will be sustained. . . .



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http://www.prweb.com/releases/2010/05/prweb3966374.htm


Carl Sagan Knew UFOs Are Real, Confidant Reveals 

Renowned astronomer, astrophysicist and pillar of modern space science Dr. Carl Sagan revealed to Dr. J. Allen Hynek that he believed UFOs were real. Sagan said to Hynek, that he knew UFOs were real but could not talk publicly about the matter and possibly risk the loss of academic funding.


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7 May 2010



 Renowned astronomer and astrophysicist Dr. Carl Sagan revealed to Dr. J. Allen Hynek that he believed UFOs were real but avoided any public statements to prevent the loss of academic research funding.



In an interview with research journalist and author Paola Leopizzi-Harris (http://www.paolaharris.com/home.htm) she told ZlandCommunications:




“My recollection is that Hynek said it was backstage of one of the many Johnny Carson Tonight shows Sagan did.  He basically said (to Hynek) in 1984, ‘I know UFOs are real, but I would not risk my research (College) funding, as you do, to talk openly about them in public.’ ”



This startling revelation about Carl Sagan, one of this century’s most esteemed scientists and writers, has now been made public by Paola Leopizzi-Harris, a former associate of Dr. Allen J. Hynek who worked with him from 1980 to 1985.



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Sagan’s link to UFOs and possibly to Dr. Hynek occurred in 1966 when Sagan was a member of the Ad Hoc Committee to Review Project Blue Book. This committee concluded that the U.S. Air Force's Project Blue Book had been lacking as a scientific study, and recommended a university-based project to give the UFO phenomenon closer scientific scrutiny. (https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/97unclass/ufo.html)



In scientific circles much of Sagan’s notoriety came from debates conducted under the auspices of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS). In 1969 he challenged J. Allen Hynek on whether investigations of unidentified flying objects should be considered serious. Hynek argued 'yes' Sagan 'no' (NNDB)



Sagan was a prolific writer of some 20 books including 'Contact' – eventually made into a movie staring Jodie Foster. Sagan also hosted the brilliantly crafted and highly popular series COSMOS: A Personal Voyage. In Episode 12: “Encyclopedia Galactica”, Sagan explored UFOs and alien abductions while also including ‘refutations’ on UFOs.




In a statement at the 1968 Congressional Hearings before the House Committee on Science and Astronautics - U.S. House of Representatives Carl Sagan stated:



“As I understand what the committee would like from me, is a discussion of the likelihood of intelligent extraterrestrial life… clearly it is the hypothesis that unidentified objects are of extraterrestrial origin which the committee must have in mind. I'm delighted to tell about contemporary scientific thinking along these lines, but let me begin by saying that I do not think the evidence is at all persuasive, that UFO's are of intelligent extraterrestrial origin...” (http://files.ncas.org/ufosymposium/sagan.html)
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from r/conspiracy

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5jqq0o/til_that_carl_sagan_wrote_and_submitted_a_paper/

from r/conspiracy

TIL that Carl Sagan wrote and submitted a paper in 1962 while at Stanford about the rational possibility of human interaction with aliens over the timeline of our species. The article was written at the behest of a NASA grant




Carl Sagan was awarded a grant in 1962 by NASA to write an article about what the possibility of ET capability to reach Earth and then the possibility of them having done so and interacted with us in the past. Sagan moved from Berkeley to Palo Alto and focused on the scholarly article, which was peer reviewed. when Sagan concluded that not only was this not just possible but highly probable. NASA did everything in its power to make the article disappear. After getting vitriol on multiple fronts, Sagan began publicly backing the opposite argument to his article, including while he was the host of the TV series "Cosmos". Its nearly impossible to find much on the internet about this at all. But there is a book and if you find this sort of thing interesting, its worth the read



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from r/UFOs

https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/4utjxg/just_a_reminder_that_carl_sagan_great_as_he_was/


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Friedman has criticized Carl Sagan, a proponent of SETI, for ignoring empirical evidence, such as "600-plus UNKNOWNS" of Project Blue Book Special Report No. 14. Friedman argued that this empirical data directly contradicts Sagan's claim in Other Worlds that the "reliable cases are uninteresting and the interesting cases are unreliable". Specifically, Friedman refers to a table in Project Blue Book Special Report No. 14 that he says "shows that the better the quality of the sighting, the more likely it was to be an 'unknown', and the less likely it was to be listed as containing 'insufficient information'"
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 . . .

Condon would later consider blocking Carl Sagan’s entry into the distinguished Cosmos Club because Sagan--though quite skeptical of UFOs--had been "too soft on UFOs for Condon's taste." (Clark, 603)

 

Literally, Sagan's dreams of establishing himself as the personality and much revered scientist that he became, was in jeopardy because of his fascination with UFOs & Aliens. This was actually a very real and pervasive problem for anyone that countered the official position on UFOs and wanted to challenge Condon to his predetermined conclusions. Sagan didn't even fail being skeptical, he was just too "soft."
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These are actions of a sociopath, controlling and micromanaging to the point of harassment and abuse. This is not the only actions that were done to bury this topic in fact, there are plenty more. But it's a perfect example of the father of popular science, who made the topic a family bonding moment with Cosmos, one loved and respected by millions of Americans, and how he was forced to ignore his actual feelings and saw quite smartly he'd be much more successful if he towed the official line. It's no surprise that Sagan learned it was okay to talk about ETs, so long as he discussed the possibility of them, living millions of miles away, or on the moons of Jupiter. And he did exactly that. His love for discussing scientific possibilities with the layman also puzzles many establishment skeptics. Maybe it's because deep down he had the same inclinations of interest, when people asked him odd or quirky questions about UFOs, Aliens or Astrology-he was always able to speak with patience and virtue.



There is one last thing about Sagan. Given what he likely had to sacrifice to maintain his establishment role, even though he was considered 'fringe' by some, he really was the perfect 'moderate' as he would grasp the worlds attention with UFOs and Space/ETs/etc, and funnel it into possibilities rather than realities, his work as a novelist may be a hidden message by him. The Book: Contact was also made into a well known film with Jodie Foster. The book does end slightly different, but the main theme is that even with verifiable evidence of Alien message, and a machine of incredible design built to connect to them, in the end a world unwilling to take a leap of faith refused to realize the reality of Contact, and instead blamed it on an international conspiracy, and the perturbations of a dying millionaire/billionaire seeking to finalize the universal habitability of the universe.



This is why I will leave my final judgement on Sagan as a cryptic. I think he saw the extraordinary cases in Bluebook exactly for what they were, but after witnessing what happened to Saunders, he know much better than to push it, else suffer it eternal  in his field. This taught him to be cryptic, and smart with how he directed his curiosity. I think he could've done much more had they allowed him however.
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Another article about the Hynek source


http://goldenageofgaia.com/disclosure/et-ufo-disclosure/5093-2/


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http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_flyingobjects122.htm



 May 2010
 from UFO-Blogger Website


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http://www.collective-evolution.com/2016/02/21/shocking-insinuation-about-carl-sagan-extraterrestrials-made-by-x-nasa-astronaut/




Shocking Insinuation About Carl Sagan & Extraterrestrials Made By X-NASA Astronaut Arjun WaliaFebruary 21, 2016
.. . .

“Carl Sagan called me from Cornell and asked me to join the faculty. I accepted the offer and spent many years at Cornell in the astronomy department, planetary science department. And I became very creative in research then, but still within the bounds of western science, but in the planetary exploration program. That was for a period of about a decade.” (
source)(source).. . .

It was very, very disappointing to me, because not only was Carl wrong, he also fudged data. He published a picture of the “Face” in Parade Magazine, a popular article, saying that the “Face” was just a natural formation, but he doctored the picture to make it not look like a face.

At this time, Sagan and O’Leary were arguably the world’s two leading experts on Mars, and they entered into many disagreements over that face. This rift was made clear in O’Leary’s publication in 1998, “Carl Sagan & I: On Opposite Sides of Mars.” It can be found in The Case for the Face: Scientists Examine the Evidence for Alien Artifacts on Mars, eds. Stanley V. McDaniel and Monica Rix Paxson. Kempton, IL: Adventures Unlimited Press.



In May of 1990, O’Leary released a paper titled “Analysis of Images of the Face on Mars and Possible Intelligent Origin” which only further demonstrated his skepticism. It was published in the Journal of the British Interplanetary Society, Vol.43 No.5.



O’Leary also went on the record and stated:



I began to realize, just directly from the scientific point of view, not only hearsay, that this man was colluding with NASA, that there might be more to this than before. . . . Carl was on a committee with a number of notable people. There was a report issued by the Brookings Institution in 1961 — and that’s about when I knew Carl, during those years; the ’60s mostly was when I worked closely with him — that he and this other group said: Well, if any ETs ever showed up on the Earth, it has to be covered up. That’s the only way we’re going to be able to manage this, because if we can’t, then it would be too much of a culture shock.



Quite a shocking statement from someone of Brian’s stature, isn’t it? In the interview, he goes on to say that Carl and his colleagues recommended that the governments cover up the UFO phenomenon, and that he believes this provided justification for the ongoing cover-up



It’s important to note that this does not make Sagan a ‘bad guy.’ He was clearly the opposite of that, and his love for science and educating humanity was quite clear. If he was in favour of covering this up, if he did know about it, there is a very good chance it was done for what they perceived to be, good reasons. Sure, there might be some corporate reasons, and some other not so pleasant reasons the cover-up remains today, but it’s plausible to assume that in the beginning, perhaps there was no I’ll intent.



“Behind the scenes, high ranking Air Force officers are soberly concerned about UFOs. But through official secrecy and ridicule, many citizens are led to believe the unknown flying objects are nonsense.” Former head of CIA, Roscoe Hillenkoetter, 1960 (source)



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Sagan's statement to Congress:


http://files.ncas.org/ufosymposium/sagan.html

Save

[Victoria33]

My dear @Quix,

What you have there is a list of "if's" and other people recalling what Sagan may have said or done, not Sagan himself.  The following one is three times removed from what he may have said.  I give no credibility to this one:

"In an interview with research journalist and author Paola Leopizzi-Harris...she told ZlandCommunications:   “My recollection is that Hynek said it was backstage of one of the many Johnny Carson Tonight shows Sagan did.  He basically said (to Hynek) in 1984, ‘I know UFOs are real, but I would not risk my research (College) funding, as you do, to talk openly about them in public.’ ”
Sagan supposedly said that to Hynek, which was said to Leopizzi, who said to ZlandCommunications.  That is nothing.

All these people saying these things are not Sagan and they were present, or not, at sometime in his life and his opinions would have changed through the years as he had or didn't have, more scientific knowledge.

Note the "ifs" in this one:

"'If' he was in favour of covering this up, 'if' he did know about it, there is a very good chance it was done for what they perceived to be, good reasons."

Sagan did not see a UFO, did not see an alien.  He was not going to say there were such things because he did not know.
This comment explains what his approach was,
 "...he really was the perfect 'moderate' as he would grasp the world’s attention with UFOs and Space/ETs/etc, and funnel it into possibilities rather than realities,...

That is all Sagan could do - "possibilities rather than realities".  Unless he had one to show, he could not say he was certain.

You are "sure" there are out of this world aliens, but you don't have one to prove that.  At Sagan's level of experitise, his standing in astronomy of the universe, he could not say that without proof.

You are still my friend to the end and I love you.

[Quix]

My dear @Quix,

What you have there is a list of "if's" and other people recalling what Sagan may have said or done, not Sagan himself.  The following one is three times removed from what he may have said.  I give no credibility to this one:

"In an interview with research journalist and author Paola Leopizzi-Harris...she told ZlandCommunications:   “My recollection is that Hynek said it was backstage of one of the many Johnny Carson Tonight shows Sagan did.  He basically said (to Hynek) in 1984, ‘I know UFOs are real, but I would not risk my research (College) funding, as you do, to talk openly about them in public.’ ”
Sagan supposedly said that to Hynek, which was said to Leopizzi, who said to ZlandCommunications.  That is nothing.

All these people saying these things are not Sagan and they were present, or not, at sometime in his life and his opinions would have changed through the years as he had or didn't have, more scientific knowledge.

Note the "ifs" in this one:

"'If' he was in favour of covering this up, 'if' he did know about it, there is a very good chance it was done for what they perceived to be, good reasons."

Sagan did not see a UFO, did not see an alien.  He was not going to say there were such things because he did not know.
This comment explains what his approach was,
 "...he really was the perfect 'moderate' as he would grasp the world’s attention with UFOs and Space/ETs/etc, and funnel it into possibilities rather than realities,...

That is all Sagan could do - "possibilities rather than realities".  Unless he had one to show, he could not say he was certain.

You are "sure" there are out of this world aliens, but you don't have one to prove that.  At Sagan's level of experitise, his standing in astronomy of the universe, he could not say that without proof.

You are still my friend to the end and I love you.

THANKS. LIKEWISE.

I understand that we have different filters on 'reality.' I'm glad of that. I prefer different viewpoints as a reality check.

I'm still of the view that the whole of my distilled info re Sagan is rather accurate. Time will tell.

The above was just a part of the sources of my distillation. I'm not that interested in trying to ferret out the rest of it.

Certainly I give much more weight to nuance in such matters than many do--perhaps than you do.

I think your tendency is more to treat such matters like a court case between two physicists in a lab or two mechanical engineers in a lab.