So Many Degrees, So Little Demand: Where the STEM Jobs Are (and Where They Aren’t)

[jmyrlefuller]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/01/education/edlife/stem-jobs-industry-careers.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur



Much of the public enthusiasm for STEM education rests on the assumption that these fields are rich in job opportunity. Some are, some aren’t. STEM is an expansive category, spanning many disciplines and occupations, from software engineers and data scientists to geologists, astronomers and physicists.

What recent studies have made increasingly apparent is that the greatest number of high-paying STEM jobs are in the “T” (specifically, computing). In a recent analysis, Edward Lazowska, a professor of computer science at the University of Washington, focused on the Bureau of Labor Statistics employment forecasts in STEM categories. In the decade ending in 2024, 73 percent of STEM job growth will be in computer occupations, but only 3 percent will be in the physical sciences and 3 percent in the life sciences. (...) STEM advocates, often executives and lobbyists for technology companies, do a disservice when they raise the alarm that America is facing a worrying shortfall of STEM workers, based on shortages in a relative handful of fast-growing fields like data analytics, artificial intelligence, cloud computing and computer security.

(excerpt)

[Joe Wooten]

I'm gonna call  on the engineering at least. Any decent engineer willing to move can get a job. I wonder how many of those so-called "unemployed engineers" are really gender queer studies majors trying to garner sympathy.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

I'm gonna call  on the engineering at least. Any decent engineer willing to move can get a job. I wonder how many of those so-called "unemployed engineers" are really gender queer studies majors trying to garner sympathy.

Joe, as an engineer,  I agree with you.  Even in dire economy, and we certainly do not have one now,  a real engineer will rise to the top of a company' s stack of resumes considered desirable.

I say 'real' as I know people called engineers but are not.

BTW, did you land ok after the company cutbacks?  Sure hope so.

[Joe Wooten]

Joe, as an engineer,  I agree with you.  Even in dire economy, and we certainly do not have one now,  a real engineer will rise to the top of a company' s stack of resumes considered desirable.

I say 'real' as I know people called engineers but are not.

BTW, did you land ok after the company cutbacks?  Sure hope so.

Yes, I had a job within two weeks. The wife and I took off on a long planned fishing trip to Western Ontario and I went to work a week after I got back. A little consulting company out of Montrose Colorado. For now I work out of my home office, but as soon as we can get the house ready, I'm gonna see what it will bring and maybe get the hell outta Illinoisy before it collapses.

Thanks for asking.

A lot of the guys who got laid off with me still have not found jobs because they are not willing to leave, or want a really narrow job function and are not willing to stretch. Some want a position, not a job. I've been through a lot of up and down economies over the last 40 years and never have I seen one in which a good engineer had trouble finding a job.

[jmyrlefuller]

Joe, as an engineer,  I agree with you.  Even in dire economy, and we certainly do not have one now,  a real engineer will rise to the top of a company' s stack of resumes considered desirable.

Well, what are the rest of the people in that stack supposed to do then?

[truth_seeker]

Before I turned 7 years old, my parents had moved 5 times between 4 states, during post WWII 1950s.

My father went back and forth between the oil business, and construction.

He only had a little college, but was always eager and willing to move to a better opportunity.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Well, what are the rest of the people in that stack supposed to do then?

They compete, as they should.  It is just harder for them to do so against engineering professionals.

An engineer who has performed as an engineer gets off the blocks much quicker. Ask any firm who hires technical professionals and they will tell you that.

[Joe Wooten]

Well, what are the rest of the people in that stack supposed to do then?

Suck it up and keep trying........

[thackney]

Yes, I had a job within two weeks. The wife and I took off on a long planned fishing trip to Western Ontario and I went to work a week after I got back. A little consulting company out of Montrose Colorado. For now I work out of my home office, but as soon as we can get the house ready, I'm gonna see what it will bring and maybe get the hell outta Illinoisy before it collapses.

Thanks for asking.

A lot of the guys who got laid off with me still have not found jobs because they are not willing to leave, or want a really narrow job function and are not willing to stretch. Some want a position, not a job. I've been through a lot of up and down economies over the last 40 years and never have I seen one in which a good engineer had trouble finding a job.

Glad to hear you landed well.

I agree with y'all.  A good engineer, willing to work and specially if willing to move, can always find decent paying work.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Before I turned 7 years old, my parents had moved 5 times between 4 states, during post WWII 1950s.

My father went back and forth between the oil business, and construction.

He only had a little college, but was always eager and willing to move to a better opportunity.

YOur father was a dedicated survivor to better himself.

Still happens.  I was in the oil industry and worked in 4 states and on both coasts and a stint overseas.  Lots and lots of international travel, some to God-forsaken places I would never subject my family to.  AS @thackney knows, even was going to Saudi Arabia before 911 put the brakes on that move.

Had to leave my Texas behind for 24 years until I was able to come back home.

All is good now.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Yes, I had a job within two weeks. The wife and I took off on a long planned fishing trip to Western Ontario and I went to work a week after I got back. A little consulting company out of Montrose Colorado. For now I work out of my home office, but as soon as we can get the house ready, I'm gonna see what it will bring and maybe get the hell outta Illinoisy before it collapses.

Thanks for asking.

A lot of the guys who got laid off with me still have not found jobs because they are not willing to leave, or want a really narrow job function and are not willing to stretch. Some want a position, not a job. I've been through a lot of up and down economies over the last 40 years and never have I seen one in which a good engineer had trouble finding a job.

Great to hear.  Seems your next move might be the last, though.  Hope it is the best for you.

[thackney]

Well, what are the rest of the people in that stack supposed to do then?

Find ways to be competitive.  Provide examples of how you were a benefit to past companies and explain how you will continue to do so for your new employer.

One very simple thing I have always done, that folks at past employment seem to remember, is always offer to help with the little stuff as well as step up for the big hard tasks.  It seems a dumb waste of time to some, but I have had multiple past employers and co-workers remember how I helped clean up a spill, helped carry in supplies, fill the coffee pot, etc. 

I've known many engineers that viewed that as beneath them and a waste of their time.  I often end up leading a team, even if not originally hired to do so.  Those little efforts go a long ways in my teams responding the same way to everything that comes our way.

[Bigun]

Well, what are the rest of the people in that stack supposed to do then?

Maybe they should qualify themselves for things in great demand!  Things like Electricians, Plumbers, AC Techs and many others!

[thackney]

AS @thackney knows, even was going to Saudi Arabia before 911 put the brakes on that move.

My wife and I were going through orientation in the Houston Saudi Aramco Building on the morning of Sept 11, 2001.  We were preparing to move our family there.  Plans changed.  Both for us, and for Aramco.  $25~50 billion on Core Venture Projects focused mostly on Natural Gas in the kingdom.

[Bigun]

My wife and I were going through orientation in the Houston Saudi Aramco Building on the morning of Sept 11, 2001.  We were preparing to move our family there.  Plans changed.  Both for us, and for Aramco.  $25~50 billion on Core Venture Projects focused mostly on Natural Gas in the kingdom.

Luckily for us, my wife and I did that in 1976 and it worked out VERY well for our family!

[Bigun]

Yes, I had a job within two weeks. The wife and I took off on a long planned fishing trip to Western Ontario and I went to work a week after I got back. A little consulting company out of Montrose Colorado. For now I work out of my home office, but as soon as we can get the house ready, I'm gonna see what it will bring and maybe get the hell outta Illinoisy before it collapses.

Thanks for asking.

A lot of the guys who got laid off with me still have not found jobs because they are not willing to leave, or want a really narrow job function and are not willing to stretch. Some want a position, not a job. I've been through a lot of up and down economies over the last 40 years and never have I seen one in which a good engineer had trouble finding a job.

GREAT news Joe!  But I never had any doubt it would be otherwise.

[driftdiver]

Joe, as an engineer,  I agree with you.  Even in dire economy, and we certainly do not have one now,  a real engineer will rise to the top of a company' s stack of resumes considered desirable.

I say 'real' as I know people called engineers but are not.

BTW, did you land ok after the company cutbacks?  Sure hope so.

@IsailedawayfromFR
A big difference in job prospects between a "real engineer" with experience and a recent college grad.   College grads are having a tough time.

[thackney]

Luckily for us, my wife and I did that in 1976 and it worked out VERY well for our family!

I think it was probably a better deal back then.  It seemed to be getting marginal in the benefits versus what was given up in 2001.  Too many from too many other parts of the world were filling the spots, adding to the competition for positions and reducing the total compensation.

IIRC, after 10 years they were talking about lifetime healthcare package when you returned to the states.  So still some significant benefits.  I had already lived in Yemen, kids were so young it would be all they know.  My wife would have made the biggest change, but life could be good in the compound if you accepted at the beginning the limitations.  Neither of us would make that change at this point in our lives, even in a pre-911 world.

[thackney]

@IsailedawayfromFR
A big difference in job prospects between a "real engineer" with experience and a recent college grad.   College grads are having a tough time.

http://time.com/money/4777074/college-grad-pay-2017-average-salary/

Congratulations class of 2017! You just might have a prayer of paying off your student loans!

A study released this week by the Hay Group division of the executive search firm Korn Ferry reports that average starting pay for new college grads has never been higher than it is right now.

The average starting salary for a 2017 college grad is just a smidge under $50,000 ($49,785, to be exact), the study indicates. That’s up 3% from last year....

...As you’d imagine, jobs in the STEM (science, tech, engineering, math) fields have starting salaries that are well above average. The job in Korn Ferry’s study with the highest average pay for new grads is software developer ($65,232), followed by engineer ($63,036) and actuary ($59,212).

[thackney]

Why are starting salaries up so much if stem jobs are so hard to find for recent grads?  A lot of articles seems to contradict the claims of this article.

Starting Salaries for 2017 College Grads Hit All-Time High
https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/hr-topics/compensation/pages/2017-college-grads-salaries.aspx

Entry-level salaries are up 14% since the recession; STEM jobs are highest-paid

There's good news for recent college graduates: Average salaries in the U.S. for people receiving undergraduate degrees in 2017 are at an all-time high, according to a recent study by pay consultants at the Hay Group division of Korn Ferry.

Researchers analyzed salaries of 145,000 entry-level positions from more than 700 organizations in the United States. A key finding: 2017 college grads will make on average $49,785 annually—3 percent more than the average for 2016 graduates ($48,270).

Adjusted for inflation, 2017 grads will make 14 percent more than those who graduated in 2007, just months before the start of the Great Recession.

"With unemployment rates back down to pre-recession levels and jobs requiring more highly specialized skills, companies will need to offer competitive compensation packages if they hope to attract top talent," said Benjamin Frost, Korn Ferry Hay Group's global product manager.

STEM Careers Still Pay the Most

As in years past, those beginning science, technology, engineering and math (STEM) careers can expect to garner the best starting salaries....

[Bigun]

I think it was probably a better deal back then.  It seemed to be getting marginal in the benefits versus what was given up in 2001.  Too many from too many other parts of the world were filling the spots, adding to the competition for positions and reducing the total compensation.

IIRC, after 10 years they were talking about lifetime healthcare package when you returned to the states.  So still some significant benefits.  I had already lived in Yemen, kids were so young it would be all they know.  My wife would have made the biggest change, but life could be good in the compound if you accepted at the beginning the limitations.  Neither of us would make that change at this point in our lives, even in a pre-911 world.

It was a very good deal indeed!  Especially the part about every year of service in the Kingdom counting as a year and a half toward retirement. 20 years = 30 for retirement purposes.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Luckily for us, my wife and I did that in 1976 and it worked out VERY well for our family!

the old-timers I knew who worked in 70s and 80s in Aramco say the same thing.  Great American-run company and camp.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

@IsailedawayfromFR
A big difference in job prospects between a "real engineer" with experience and a recent college grad.   College grads are having a tough time.

yeah, experience means something.  New college grads need to be hungry and willing.

Best college engineering recruit I ever interviewed worked his way through school by raising pigs on his dad's farm in Ohio.