Author Topic: The Axis Was Outmatched from the Start  (Read 1041 times)

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Offline endicom

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The Axis Was Outmatched from the Start
« on: October 17, 2017, 08:05:45 pm »
National Review
Victor Davis Hanson
Oct. 17, 2017

Starting wars is far easier than ending them. Since the Peloponnesian War (431–404 BC) between Athens and Sparta and their allies, winning — and finishing — a war has been predicated on finding ways to end an enemy’s ability to fight, whether materially or psychologically. The Axis and the Allies had radically different ideas of how the wars of World War II would eventually conclude — with the Allies sharing a far better historical appreciation of the formulas that always put a final end to conflicts.

More... http://www.nationalreview.com/article/452604/victor-davis-hanson-second-world-wars-excerpt-axis-outmatched-beginning

Offline Restored

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Re: The Axis Was Outmatched from the Start
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2017, 08:27:46 pm »
If Germany had somehow stopped the Dunkirk evacuation and had focused on the English invasion instead of every other invasion, the war may have gone differently. England was prepared to fight a defensive battle but not an offensive one. If Germany had developed a foothold by parachuting onto remote land that could have sustained airfields, England was in a pickle. If Germany could have gotten England out of the way, Turkey and Spain would have probably joined the Axis. Gibraltar falls, the Balkans fall and North Africa/Middle East falls.

Instead, Germany started wars on every possible front and bled themselves dry.
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Offline DemolitionMan

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Re: The Axis Was Outmatched from the Start
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2017, 12:31:38 am »
Hitler needed an ally like General Franco. General Franco would have delivered Hitler the keys to the Mediterranean by capturing Gibraltar

http://histclo.com/bio/h/hitler/dir/fd18-felix.html
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2013/09/hitlers-missed-opportunity-failing-to-smash-the-rock-of-gibraltar/
« Last Edit: October 19, 2017, 12:37:44 am by DemolitionMan »
"Of Arms and Man I Sing"-The Aenid written by Virgil-Virgil commenced his epic story of Aeneas and the founding of Rome with the words: Arma virumque cano--"Of arms and man I sing.Aeneas receives full treatment in Roman mythology, most extensively in Virgil's Aeneid, where he is an ancestor of Romulus and Remus. He became the first true hero of Rome

Offline stephen50right

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Re: The Axis Was Outmatched from the Start
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2017, 12:51:48 am »
If Germany had somehow stopped the Dunkirk evacuation and had focused on the English invasion instead of every other invasion, the war may have gone differently. England was prepared to fight a defensive battle but not an offensive one. If Germany had developed a foothold by parachuting onto remote land that could have sustained airfields, England was in a pickle. If Germany could have gotten England out of the way, Turkey and Spain would have probably joined the Axis. Gibraltar falls, the Balkans fall and North Africa/Middle East falls.

Instead, Germany started wars on every possible front and bled themselves dry.

Excellent analysis.

Don't forget Hitler's morbid fascination with murdering Jews. We all know about the Holocaust, and Hitler referred to Jewish scientific innovations as "Jewish Physics" and he wanted no part of it. The Manhattan Project couldn't have been completed as efficiently and effectively as it did without persecuted Jews having fled Germany and other parts of Europe in the 1930's.

Little known fact that Jewish soldiers distinguished themselves quite nicely fighting for Germany in WW1 as it was their homeland and their ancestors homeland for centuries. If Hitler wasn't a rabid anti-Semitic, and hadn't invaded Russia, WW2 would have been an entirely different ballgame.

Hitler under those circumstances would have likely won the war in my opinion. But the interesting thing is just like the Soviet Union dissolved, eventually the "German Empire" of them winning WW2 would have almost certainly dissolved also with the European countries winding up basically exactly as they are now. So ...tens of millions dead for nothing either way.

Offline DemolitionMan

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Re: The Axis Was Outmatched from the Start
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2017, 01:07:50 am »
Excellent analysis.

Don't forget Hitler's morbid fascination with murdering Jews. We all know about the Holocaust, and Hitler referred to Jewish scientific innovations as "Jewish Physics" and he wanted no part of it. The Manhattan Project couldn't have been completed as efficiently and effectively as it did without persecuted Jews having fled Germany and other parts of Europe in the 1930's.

Little known fact that Jewish soldiers distinguished themselves quite nicely fighting for Germany in WW1 as it was their homeland and their ancestors homeland for centuries. If Hitler wasn't a rabid anti-Semitic, and hadn't invaded Russia, WW2 would have been an entirely different ballgame.

Hitler under those circumstances would have likely won the war in my opinion. But the interesting thing is just like the Soviet Union dissolved, eventually the "German Empire" of them winning WW2 would have almost certainly dissolved also with the European countries winding up basically exactly as they are now. So ...tens of millions dead for nothing either way.
This is the story of the Nazi Imam.Al-Husseini was the scion of a family of Jerusalemite notables,[9] who trace their origins to the eponymous grandson of Muhammad.[10] After receiving an education in Islamic, Ottoman, and Catholic schools, he went on to serve in the Ottoman army in World War I. At war's end he stationed himself in Damascus as a supporter of the Arab Kingdom of Syria. Following the Franco-Syrian War and the collapse of Arab Hashemite rule in Damascus, his early position on pan-Arabism shifted to a form of local nationalism for Palestinian Arabs and he moved back to Jerusalem. From as early as 1920 he actively opposed Zionism, and was implicated as a leader of the 1920 Nebi Musa riots. Al-Husseini was sentenced to ten years' imprisonment for incitement but was pardoned by the British.[11] In 1921 the British High Commissioner appointed him Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, a position he used to promote Islam while rallying a non-confessional Arab nationalism against Zionism.[12][13] During the period 1921-36 he was considered an important ally by the British Mandatory authorities.[14]

His opposition to the British peaked during the 1936–1939 Arab revolt in Palestine. In 1937, evading an arrest warrant, he fled Palestine and took refuge successively in the French Mandate of Lebanon and the Kingdom of Iraq, until he established himself in Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany. During World War II he collaborated with both Italy and Germany by making propagandistic radio broadcasts and by helping the Nazis recruit Bosnian Muslims for the Waffen-SS (on the ground that they shared four principles: family, order, the leader and faith). Also, as he told the recruits, Germany had not colonized any Arab country while Russia and England had.[15] On meeting Adolf Hitler he requested backing for Arab independence and support in opposing the establishment in Palestine of a Jewish national home. At the war's end he came under French protection, and then sought refuge in Cairo to avoid prosecution for war crimes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin_al-Husseini


« Last Edit: October 19, 2017, 01:14:35 am by DemolitionMan »
"Of Arms and Man I Sing"-The Aenid written by Virgil-Virgil commenced his epic story of Aeneas and the founding of Rome with the words: Arma virumque cano--"Of arms and man I sing.Aeneas receives full treatment in Roman mythology, most extensively in Virgil's Aeneid, where he is an ancestor of Romulus and Remus. He became the first true hero of Rome

Offline Restored

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Re: The Axis Was Outmatched from the Start
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2017, 01:20:01 am »
Hitler's attack on the Jews was illogical, unreasoned and unexplainable. Most genocide is a result of a power struggle. The Jews had no power. Even as an atheist, I believed in the concept of corporate evil. The Holocaust was an example of it. Senseless evil for no rational reason other than there must be a higher power of evil.

When I read where Jesus said "Satan is the prince of this world", I understood. I didn't believe in God at the time but I believed Jesus was right.

Hitler's downfall came when he began to believe his own hype. That is true of everyone. Hitler dismissed jets when they flew in 1940. He wasted valuable resources on useless weapons like the V-1 and V-2.  He invaded and held countries like Yugoslavia that meant nothing but absorbed divisions.
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Offline DemolitionMan

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Re: The Axis Was Outmatched from the Start
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2017, 01:24:25 am »
Hitler's attack on the Jews was illogical, unreasoned and unexplainable. Most genocide is a result of a power struggle. The Jews had no power. Even as an atheist, I believed in the concept of corporate evil. The Holocaust was an example of it. Senseless evil for no rational reason other than there must be a higher power of evil.

When I read where Jesus said "Satan is the prince of this world", I understood. I didn't believe in God at the time but I believed Jesus was right.

Hitler's downfall came when he began to believe his own hype. That is true of everyone. Hitler dismissed jets when they flew in 1940. He wasted valuable resources on useless weapons like the V-1 and V-2.  He invaded and held countries like Yugoslavia that meant nothing but absorbed divisions.

Yes. He did squandered valuable resourses. They also lacked a central authority to get projects off the ground. There was an intense rivary between the milirary and various industries.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2017, 01:24:54 am by DemolitionMan »
"Of Arms and Man I Sing"-The Aenid written by Virgil-Virgil commenced his epic story of Aeneas and the founding of Rome with the words: Arma virumque cano--"Of arms and man I sing.Aeneas receives full treatment in Roman mythology, most extensively in Virgil's Aeneid, where he is an ancestor of Romulus and Remus. He became the first true hero of Rome

Offline stephen50right

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Re: The Axis Was Outmatched from the Start
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2017, 01:27:57 am »
This is the story of the Nazi Imam.Al-Husseini was the scion of a family of Jerusalemite notables,[9] who trace their origins to the eponymous grandson of Muhammad.[10] After receiving an education in Islamic, Ottoman, and Catholic schools, he went on to serve in the Ottoman army in World War I. At war's end he stationed himself in Damascus as a supporter of the Arab Kingdom of Syria. Following the Franco-Syrian War and the collapse of Arab Hashemite rule in Damascus, his early position on pan-Arabism shifted to a form of local nationalism for Palestinian Arabs and he moved back to Jerusalem. From as early as 1920 he actively opposed Zionism, and was implicated as a leader of the 1920 Nebi Musa riots. Al-Husseini was sentenced to ten years' imprisonment for incitement but was pardoned by the British.[11] In 1921 the British High Commissioner appointed him Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, a position he used to promote Islam while rallying a non-confessional Arab nationalism against Zionism.[12][13] During the period 1921-36 he was considered an important ally by the British Mandatory authorities.[14]

His opposition to the British peaked during the 1936–1939 Arab revolt in Palestine. In 1937, evading an arrest warrant, he fled Palestine and took refuge successively in the French Mandate of Lebanon and the Kingdom of Iraq, until he established himself in Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany. During World War II he collaborated with both Italy and Germany by making propagandistic radio broadcasts and by helping the Nazis recruit Bosnian Muslims for the Waffen-SS (on the ground that they shared four principles: family, order, the leader and faith). Also, as he told the recruits, Germany had not colonized any Arab country while Russia and England had.[15] On meeting Adolf Hitler he requested backing for Arab independence and support in opposing the establishment in Palestine of a Jewish national home. At the war's end he came under French protection, and then sought refuge in Cairo to avoid prosecution for war crimes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin_al-Husseini

Little known fact - Hitler told his close inner circle, that after Germany wins the war, he was going to purge Germany of Christianity. Perhaps that is why Islam, being a historical enemy of Christians and Jews, didn't bother him at the time.

But frankly, is their really any doubt that if Hitler had won the war, that Muslims would have been exterminated just as readily as anyone else in the Third Reich if the Nazis got the power to do it.

That is why it was called the Master Race, and also why the comparisons of Nazism and radical Islam are valid, as there are sections in the Koran which the average Muslim may not agree with, but radicals such as ISIS believe in the same mass murder extermination concepts as the Nazis.

Offline stephen50right

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Re: The Axis Was Outmatched from the Start
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2017, 01:43:01 am »
Hitler's attack on the Jews was illogical, unreasoned and unexplainable. Most genocide is a result of a power struggle. The Jews had no power. Even as an atheist, I believed in the concept of corporate evil. The Holocaust was an example of it. Senseless evil for no rational reason other than there must be a higher power of evil.

When I read where Jesus said "Satan is the prince of this world", I understood. I didn't believe in God at the time but I believed Jesus was right.

Hitler's downfall came when he began to believe his own hype. That is true of everyone. Hitler dismissed jets when they flew in 1940. He wasted valuable resources on useless weapons like the V-1 and V-2.  He invaded and held countries like Yugoslavia that meant nothing but absorbed divisions.

It's tough to find accurate info on Hitler's childhood because the Nazis of course purged any negatives, and told their own glorified narrative about their Fuhrer.

But here's a few things that I think are probably true. One of Hitler's grandmothers was Jewish, and it's been reported that Hitler had some Jewish friends growing up and was very friendly towards his Jewish neighbors.

What triggered him to mass murder? You may find this "funny" but I believe that his rejection into art school which he badly wanted, and there were influential Jews on the school board who rejected him, really ticked him off a lot. All the rest of his wicked personality of course was the major factor in his behavior, but I think this event initially triggered his wish to kill Jews. There was a lot of anti-Semitism back then in Germany after losing WW1, and Hitler put two and two together to form his strategies of hate, murder, and conquest, and persecuting and then mass murdering Jews fit right in perfectly with his horrific ideas.

Offline DemolitionMan

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Re: The Axis Was Outmatched from the Start
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2017, 02:34:57 am »
It's tough to find accurate info on Hitler's childhood because the Nazis of course purged any negatives, and told their own glorified narrative about their Fuhrer.

But here's a few things that I think are probably true. One of Hitler's grandmothers was Jewish, and it's been reported that Hitler had some Jewish friends growing up and was very friendly towards his Jewish neighbors.

What triggered him to mass murder? You may find this "funny" but I believe that his rejection into art school which he badly wanted, and there were influential Jews on the school board who rejected him, really ticked him off a lot. All the rest of his wicked personality of course was the major factor in his behavior, but I think this event initially triggered his wish to kill Jews. There was a lot of anti-Semitism back then in Germany after losing WW1, and Hitler put two and two together to form his strategies of hate, murder, and conquest, and persecuting and then mass murdering Jews fit right in perfectly with his horrific ideas.


One of the Imam students was PLO leader Yasser Arafat

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2002/aug/9/20020809-035905-1668r/
« Last Edit: October 19, 2017, 02:40:05 am by DemolitionMan »
"Of Arms and Man I Sing"-The Aenid written by Virgil-Virgil commenced his epic story of Aeneas and the founding of Rome with the words: Arma virumque cano--"Of arms and man I sing.Aeneas receives full treatment in Roman mythology, most extensively in Virgil's Aeneid, where he is an ancestor of Romulus and Remus. He became the first true hero of Rome