Author Topic: China Spent Decades Trying to Build a Better AK-47  (Read 1384 times)

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Offline DemolitionMan

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China Spent Decades Trying to Build a Better AK-47
« on: October 08, 2017, 04:37:14 am »
Matthew Moss

In the mid-1960s, the Chinese military began to seek a replacement for its assortment of Soviet-licensed small arms, including the Type 56 semi-automatic rifle, the Type 56 assault rifle and the Type 56 light machine gun.

The result was the Type 63, first issued in 1968, which combined characteristics of both the SKS and the AK-47. The Type 63, however, failed to meet accuracy expectations and the Chinese military found it unsatisfactory.

In 1979, the Chinese People’s Liberation Army fought the Vietnamese army during the First Sino-Vietnamese War — and found itself at a distinct disadvantage. The PLA was predominantly still armed with the semi-automatic Type 56 carbine. Only officers, NCOs and specialist troops carried the Type 56 assault rifle. The Vietnamese, by contrast, were almost entirely armed with superior AK-pattern weapons.

The Chinese resumed their search for a replacement rifle, appointing small-arms designer Wang Zi Jun to develop a more reliable infantry rifle and light machine gun.


The Chinese military wanted the new rifle to have a longer service life, use existing AK- and SKS-pattern tooling to speed up production and have improved reliability and accuracy comparable to the AK. The result is the Type 81, which uses a short-stroke, gas-operated action with a two-lug rotating bolt. The rifle is chambered in 7.62-by-39-millimeter and feeds from 20- or 30-round box magazines.

The rifle initially had a wooden buttstock, however, this was replaced with a folding stock similar to that on the Type 56. The Type 81 beat a rival rifle during trials and the Chinese military adopted it in 1982. Early production models saw combat during the Second Sino-Vietnamese War. Full production began in 1986.

The Type 81 Squad Automatic Weapon variant features a heavier-profile barrel, bipod, additional carrying handle and a fixed butt stock with a profile similar to the Soviet RPD. It was designed to fulfill a role similar to the Soviet RPK and fires from a closed bolt. The Type 81 light machine gun can feed from either standard Type 81 rifle magazines or a 75-round drum magazine.

The Type 81’s longer receiver improves the weapon’s recoil characteristics, accuracy and controllability compared to the AK-pattern Type 56. The Type 81 also abandoned the AK’s large safety/selector lever for a small selector switch on the left side of the rifle. The Type 81 has a detachable rather than integral bayonet and is also able to fire rifle grenades.

https://warisboring.com/china-spent-decades-trying-to-build-a-better-ak-47/
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 04:37:42 am by DemolitionMan »
"Of Arms and Man I Sing"-The Aenid written by Virgil-Virgil commenced his epic story of Aeneas and the founding of Rome with the words: Arma virumque cano--"Of arms and man I sing.Aeneas receives full treatment in Roman mythology, most extensively in Virgil's Aeneid, where he is an ancestor of Romulus and Remus. He became the first true hero of Rome

Offline DemolitionMan

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Re: China Spent Decades Trying to Build a Better AK-47
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2017, 05:00:53 am »
Do not use anything from Nornico. Its garbage.It jams too much.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 05:01:17 am by DemolitionMan »
"Of Arms and Man I Sing"-The Aenid written by Virgil-Virgil commenced his epic story of Aeneas and the founding of Rome with the words: Arma virumque cano--"Of arms and man I sing.Aeneas receives full treatment in Roman mythology, most extensively in Virgil's Aeneid, where he is an ancestor of Romulus and Remus. He became the first true hero of Rome

Offline KingsX

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Re: China Spent Decades Trying to Build a Better AK-47
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2017, 05:02:26 am »



Not only did the Russians steal their AK-47 design from the German StG 44...
they even stole the German [Hugo Schmeisser] who designed it  !!


" By August 1945, the Red Army had created 50 StG 44s from existing assembly parts, and had begun inspecting their design. 10,785 sheets of technical designs were confiscated by the Soviets as part of their research. In October 1945, Schmeisser was forced to work for the Red Army and instructed to continue development of new weapons including the AK-47. Schmeisser was one of 16 Germans... "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Schmeisser





« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 05:10:13 am by KingsX »

Offline sneakypete

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Re: China Spent Decades Trying to Build a Better AK-47
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2017, 06:19:50 pm »
The Chinese may be the least creative people in the world. The truth is that they should have to pay the Russians for the right to build what is essentially Russian shoulder arms,and that the airplanes they fly,the subs they go underwater with,and the airplane carriers they own came from Russia.

Hell,last time I checked the Chinese officers were still armed with pistols that were designed in the USSR in the 1930's.
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Offline Fishrrman

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Re: China Spent Decades Trying to Build a Better AK-47
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2017, 12:24:23 am »
I'm actually surprised they didn't try copying an M-16...

Offline sneakypete

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Re: China Spent Decades Trying to Build a Better AK-47
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2017, 03:01:46 pm »
I'm actually surprised they didn't try copying an M-16...

@Fishrrman

Well,they literally already had hundreds of tons of SKS/AK weapons systems,with the ammo to go with them,so why would some of the least inventive people on the planet try to re-invent the rock?

They essentially had WW-2 era surplus Soviet submarines so loud they could be picked up by children's microphones until the Clinton Crime Family and the Bush Crime Family joined forces to sell them current US Navy sub technology back when Poppy was president,and continuing through the Clinton and Boy Jorge presidencies with classified computers with matching software.
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Offline DemolitionMan

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Re: China Spent Decades Trying to Build a Better AK-47
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2017, 08:45:27 am »
@Fishrrman

Well,they literally already had hundreds of tons of SKS/AK weapons systems,with the ammo to go with them,so why would some of the least inventive people on the planet try to re-invent the rock?

They essentially had WW-2 era surplus Soviet submarines so loud they could be picked up by children's microphones until the Clinton Crime Family and the Bush Crime Family joined forces to sell them current US Navy sub technology back when Poppy was president,and continuing through the Clinton and Boy Jorge presidencies with classified computers with matching software.

Russian SKS and AK-47s are far better. You can't buy NORNICO products(bullets,rifles) here because of the 1989 Arms Embargo placed on China after the Tiananmen Square massacre.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norinco#cite_note-3
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 08:59:23 am by DemolitionMan »
"Of Arms and Man I Sing"-The Aenid written by Virgil-Virgil commenced his epic story of Aeneas and the founding of Rome with the words: Arma virumque cano--"Of arms and man I sing.Aeneas receives full treatment in Roman mythology, most extensively in Virgil's Aeneid, where he is an ancestor of Romulus and Remus. He became the first true hero of Rome

Offline sneakypete

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Re: China Spent Decades Trying to Build a Better AK-47
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2017, 03:22:12 pm »
Quote
Russian SKS and AK-47s are far better.


The ones we captured in SE Asia were virtually identical.

Quote
You can't buy NORNICO products(bullets,rifles) here because of the 1989 Arms Embargo placed on China after the Tiananmen Square massacre.

No,it wasn't,but it did have everything to do with Norinco officials in the US running spy organizations as well as smuggling in full-auto AK-47's to sell to His and Her Panic gangbangers like MS-13 and the Latin Lords. The BATF and Treasury had been running a undercover operation on this,and were all set to make a raid on the Norinco warehouse on the former Long Beach Navy Base,when they were ordered to give a briefing to the Senate Intelligence Committee on their operations. Di Fi chaired the meeting,and her husband and his law firm were the legal mouthpieces for Norinco,USA. The BATF showed videos of the crates of machine guns and ammo stored at their warehouses,as well as videos and oral recording of Norinco officials discussing these deals.

Oddly enough,EVERY SINGLE CHINESE OFFICIAL INVOLVED WITH NORINCO USA FLEW OUT OF THE USA AND BACK TO CHINA THAT VERY NIGHT,BEFORE THEY COULD BE ARRESTED.

 Go figure.

 I am sure Di-Fi and her husband/Norinco attorney having knowledge of the upcoming raids and arrests was just a Coinkydink.

THAT was the day Norinco,USA went out of business,and to this very day not one single arrest or even demand for extradition has been made.

Amazing,ain't it? The whole operation was a (then) Red Chinese operation with the goal of weakening and possibly destroying the US,and neither Di-Fi nor her husband has ever been asked a single question about this "coincidence". BTW,IIRC,that sting operation had been going on without a leak for something like 3 years before they were ordered to brief Di-Fi's committee the night before the raid.

The Norinco version of the 191A1 Government Model was a match for those built by anyone. And why wouldn't they be,when they were an exact copy of the goobermint issue 45's?
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 03:34:56 pm by sneakypete »
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Offline DemolitionMan

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Re: China Spent Decades Trying to Build a Better AK-47
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2017, 09:51:36 pm »


The ones we captured in SE Asia were virtually identical.

No,it wasn't,but it did have everything to do with Norinco officials in the US running spy organizations as well as smuggling in full-auto AK-47's to sell to His and Her Panic gangbangers like MS-13 and the Latin Lords. The BATF and Treasury had been running a undercover operation on this,and were all set to make a raid on the Norinco warehouse on the former Long Beach Navy Base,when they were ordered to give a briefing to the Senate Intelligence Committee on their operations. Di Fi chaired the meeting,and her husband and his law firm were the legal mouthpieces for Norinco,USA. The BATF showed videos of the crates of machine guns and ammo stored at their warehouses,as well as videos and oral recording of Norinco officials discussing these deals.

Oddly enough,EVERY SINGLE CHINESE OFFICIAL INVOLVED WITH NORINCO USA FLEW OUT OF THE USA AND BACK TO CHINA THAT VERY NIGHT,BEFORE THEY COULD BE ARRESTED.

 Go figure.

 I am sure Di-Fi and her husband/Norinco attorney having knowledge of the upcoming raids and arrests was just a Coinkydink.

THAT was the day Norinco,USA went out of business,and to this very day not one single arrest or even demand for extradition has been made.

Amazing,ain't it? The whole operation was a (then) Red Chinese operation with the goal of weakening and possibly destroying the US,and neither Di-Fi nor her husband has ever been asked a single question about this "coincidence". BTW,IIRC,that sting operation had been going on without a leak for something like 3 years before they were ordered to brief Di-Fi's committee the night before the raid.

The Norinco version of the 191A1 Government Model was a match for those built by anyone. And why wouldn't they be,when they were an exact copy of the goobermint issue 45's?

The ones from Russia are extremely high quality.
"Of Arms and Man I Sing"-The Aenid written by Virgil-Virgil commenced his epic story of Aeneas and the founding of Rome with the words: Arma virumque cano--"Of arms and man I sing.Aeneas receives full treatment in Roman mythology, most extensively in Virgil's Aeneid, where he is an ancestor of Romulus and Remus. He became the first true hero of Rome

Offline DemolitionMan

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Re: China Spent Decades Trying to Build a Better AK-47
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2017, 10:05:56 pm »
The SKS are from Russia are extremely high quality.Those are legal to sell in the United States.I have one.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 12:21:27 am by DemolitionMan »
"Of Arms and Man I Sing"-The Aenid written by Virgil-Virgil commenced his epic story of Aeneas and the founding of Rome with the words: Arma virumque cano--"Of arms and man I sing.Aeneas receives full treatment in Roman mythology, most extensively in Virgil's Aeneid, where he is an ancestor of Romulus and Remus. He became the first true hero of Rome

Offline DemolitionMan

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Re: China Spent Decades Trying to Build a Better AK-47
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2017, 12:22:29 am »
The SKS are from Russia are extremely high quality.Those are legal to sell in the United States.I have one.

Stick with the Mosin Nagant bolt action rifle
"Of Arms and Man I Sing"-The Aenid written by Virgil-Virgil commenced his epic story of Aeneas and the founding of Rome with the words: Arma virumque cano--"Of arms and man I sing.Aeneas receives full treatment in Roman mythology, most extensively in Virgil's Aeneid, where he is an ancestor of Romulus and Remus. He became the first true hero of Rome

Offline sneakypete

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Re: China Spent Decades Trying to Build a Better AK-47
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2017, 01:24:02 am »
Stick with the Mosin Nagant bolt action rifle

@Demolition Man

WTF? Now you are arguing with yourself?
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Offline driftdiver

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Re: China Spent Decades Trying to Build a Better AK-47
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2017, 01:26:04 am »
@Demolition Man

WTF? Now you are arguing with yourself?

I suspect several people here have more then one profile with different personalities.
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Offline DemolitionMan

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Re: China Spent Decades Trying to Build a Better AK-47
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2017, 03:09:52 am »
@Demolition Man

WTF? Now you are arguing with yourself?

I wanted to add one more thing
"Of Arms and Man I Sing"-The Aenid written by Virgil-Virgil commenced his epic story of Aeneas and the founding of Rome with the words: Arma virumque cano--"Of arms and man I sing.Aeneas receives full treatment in Roman mythology, most extensively in Virgil's Aeneid, where he is an ancestor of Romulus and Remus. He became the first true hero of Rome

Offline sneakypete

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Re: China Spent Decades Trying to Build a Better AK-47
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2017, 10:24:51 am »
I suspect several people here have more then one profile with different personalities.

@driftdiver

I suspect you are right,but I have no idea why anyone would want to do that. I have enough trouble with the one personality I have to live with,I damn sure don't want to have to deal with another one.
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