Catalan referendum: Police seal off polling stations

[Right_in_Virginia]

Catalan referendum: Catalonia has 'won right to statehood'
BBC, Oct 1, 2017, 19 minutes ago

Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont says the region has won the right to statehood following Sunday's contentious referendum which was marred by violence.

He said the door had been opened to a unilateral declaration of independence.

Hundreds of people were injured as Spanish police used force to try to block voting.

The Spanish government had pledged to stop a poll that was declared illegal by the country's constitutional court.


Read more:  http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41463719

[Suppressed]

The Spanish government had pledged to stop a poll that was declared illegal by the country's constitutional court.

There's something wrong right at the base, if a poll -- just obtaining opinions, not anything binding -- can be considered illegal. 

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Boy, at least, Catalonia is standing up for something moral in independence, unlike the Slave states in the 1860s were standing up for an abomination that took another 100 years to try and straighten out, touche.  Be happy with the direction of the minority majority states by the year, 2040, Texas, Georgia, Tennessee, Mississippi.

You really need to read your history once again.

Those states were standing up to an abusive federal government that was usurping the power of sovereign states, in clear violation of the Constitution.

And Slave States?  There remained plenty of slaves in states which comprised the North.  If you wish to not stand up to, what do you call it, an "abomination", one must not be participating in that abomination, eh?

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Texas is in a unique position to do just that. I won't list everything in our favor but we do have or had until recently our own electrical grid. Back in the day (when we had real leaders) Texas would not let so much as an extension cord cross our borders.

Another thing we have going for us is that Texas became a state via an international treaty. So all Texas has to do (in theory) is nullify the agreement between the sovereign state of Texas and sovereign state of the United States. Bingo we are once again an independent sovereign state.

Of course things never go as planned or expected. But I think we could pull it off. We probably would not get all of our territory back with out a fight and gov would probably want us to pay our part of the national debt. So there would be issues.

I am all for it, issues and all.  I would counter paying off debt with Texas being able to recoup its rightful share of all of those federal lands it shares with the other states.

The decrease of federal taxes that Texans would enjoy would easily compensate for other new duties the new country would have to fund.  Texans contributes almost $300 billion per year to the federal kitty.

[Suppressed]

And Slave States?  There remained plenty of slaves in states which comprised the North.  If you wish to not stand up to, what do you call it, an "abomination", one must not be participating in that abomination, eh?

@IsailedawayfromFR @TomSea

Yeah, TomSea seems to want to go even further than Lincoln.  Tom, do you advocate invading any sovereign nation with slavery, or just the Confederacy?

[TomSea]

@IsailedawayfromFR @TomSea

Yeah, TomSea seems to want to go even further than Lincoln.  Tom, do you advocate invading any sovereign nation with slavery, or just the Confederacy?

@supressed @IsailedawayfromFR

So, Supressed is saying, if a governor wants to kill everyone in the state, it's his right?  Right? States Rights. That's what you are saying.

And any sovereign nation, what's this lunacy? You smear Lincoln but I don't recall him talking about Angola.

[TomSea]

Texas is a minority majority state now, it will be 33% white by 2040, be happy with that, especially with it's history of racism.  Signs of conflict are already showing up.

[TomSea]

There's something wrong right at the base, if a poll -- just obtaining opinions, not anything binding -- can be considered illegal.

No, heck, according to your logic, it seems a case can be made that from Texas to California still belongs to Spain. Maybe we should give it all back to Spain.

[TomSea]

Texas is in a unique position to do just that. I won't list everything in our favor but we do have or had until recently our own electrical grid. Back in the day (when we had real leaders) Texas would not let so much as an extension cord cross our borders.

Another thing we have going for us is that Texas became a state via an international treaty. So all Texas has to do (in theory) is nullify the agreement between the sovereign state of Texas and sovereign state of the United States. Bingo we are once again an independent sovereign state.

Of course things never go as planned or expected. But I think we could pull it off. We probably would not get all of our territory back with out a fight and gov would probably want us to pay our part of the national debt. So there would be issues.

And you have plenty of people that say Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, California were indeed stolen from Mexico. Bingo.

Shouldn't have ever joined the union in the first place then, of course, that noble war for independence propped up slavery.

[TomSea]

I am all for it, issues and all.  I would counter paying off debt with Texas being able to recoup its rightful share of all of those federal lands it shares with the other states.

The decrease of federal taxes that Texans would enjoy would easily compensate for other new duties the new country would have to fund.  Texans contributes almost $300 billion per year to the federal kitty.

Great, dream on, it won't ever happen in a minority majority state,  Texas is just 20 years behind California and similar is coming for it.  Which means, it's already set to flip, the votes are already there.



I remember all of those maps, this one is funny too.

[TomSea]

@IsailedawayfromFR @TomSea

Yeah, TomSea seems to want to go even further than Lincoln.  Tom, do you advocate invading any sovereign nation with slavery, or just the Confederacy?

@Suppressed
So you actually stand up for slavery? Wow, just wow.

[TomSea]

You really need to read your history once again.

Those states were standing up to an abusive federal government that was usurping the power of sovereign states, in clear violation of the Constitution.

And Slave States?  There remained plenty of slaves in states which comprised the North.  If you wish to not stand up to, what do you call it, an "abomination", one must not be participating in that abomination, eh?

But the abusive system of human slavery is alrighty, oh sure.

"There remained plenty of slaves in states which comprised the North"
Delaware or New Jersey? Just lost causers falsehoods again. There were not plenty of slaves in the north.
Not unless the lie is trotted out that Missouri, Kentucky, Maryland and so on were Northern States which is a joke.

New Jersey was in the process of abolishing slavery, Delaware I'm unsure about. Those are the only 2 states where one can make that case.

Neo-Confederate rubbish.

[TomSea]

Funny to hear some Texas views upset about the voting in Catalonia, since it seems every week we read about Texas and voting rights, districting, voter ID and so on.

[TomSea]

Might as well make the case that Texas, etc. all belongs to Mexico; as we have the usual hijacking of a thread.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

@supressed @IsailedawayfromFR

So, Supressed is saying, if a governor wants to kill everyone in the state, it's his right?  Right? States Rights. That's what you are saying.

And any sovereign nation, what's this lunacy? You smear Lincoln but I don't recall him talking about Angola.

States are sovereign.  It retains all control within its borders other than very specific duties it has permitted under the Constitution to be done by the United States government.

Where did you get the notion that a governor wants to kill everyone in the state anyway?

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Texas is a minority majority state now, it will be 33% white by 2040, be happy with that, especially with it's history of racism.  Signs of conflict are already showing up.

You are one of those who sees racism everywhere, apparently.

[TomSea]

Delaware a border state:
http://www.lib.udel.edu/ud/spec/exhibits/lincolndelcivilwar/
As Maryland, birthplace of John Wilkes Booth, Missouri, birthplaces of the James' brother, skirmishes with Abolitionists, the Jayhawkers in Kansas; Kentucky, in the news about having confederate monuments there. Sure, a Union state.

New Jersey, slow abolition of slavery, hardly any existed by the Civil War:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Jersey_in_the_American_Civil_War

So, those are rather pernicious statements to insist "there were plenty of slaves in the North",

Too bad, these threads get hijacked with some pipe dream that will never happen and a debate on the civil war.

No state would have the right to order the murders of all of some segment of their populations, let's say Mormons for instance.  This is a moral wrong. Slavery was a moral wrong but this facet is glossed over by defenders of the Confederacy.

Yes, we have modern moral wrongs indeed and it is a bit of a civil war as well.

The Union had every right to preserve the union itself; the Southern States list in their articles of secession, over and over again, they fought to preserve slavery. New Jersey was already abolishing it, Delaware was a border state. I will go with historians, not off-the-wall versions of history.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

But the abusive system of human slavery is alrighty, oh sure.

"There remained plenty of slaves in states which comprised the North"
Delaware or New Jersey? Just lost causers falsehoods again. There were not plenty of slaves in the north.
Not unless the lie is trotted out that Missouri, Kentucky, Maryland and so on were Northern States which is a joke.

New Jersey was in the process of abolishing slavery, Delaware I'm unsure about. Those are the only 2 states where one can make that case.

Neo-Confederate rubbish.

Facts are messy things when they interfere with your agenda, aren't they?  Just how many slaves do you not count when you say they are not a lot?

so you are one who just throws out untrue claims to see if any can stick to the wall rather than getting the facts right, eh?

A liar has to remember the lies he tells as it gets awfully embarrassing, doesn't it?

You are the one in the rubbish pile, constructing falsehoods.