Author Topic: Alternate History:Oil and Triumph of Nazi Germany  (Read 851 times)

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Offline DemolitionMan

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Alternate History:Oil and Triumph of Nazi Germany
« on: September 25, 2017, 05:40:49 am »
In 1945 the leader of Nazi Germany took his own life in an underground bunker surrounded by the smoldering remains of his capital city. What if Hitler had made a simple strategy change in 1941? Could the war have ended with the Axis powers ruling most of the world and America cowering on the other side of the globe?

Adolf Hitler needed oil. By 1941 the German war machine - tanks, planes and trucks - would soon grind to a stop without petroleum. Hitler and his allies controlled most of the continent of Europe along with parts of northern Africa, but no area within the influence of the Axis powers, contained enough resources of oil to meet his needs. This was a problem that Hitler needed to solve and solve soon.

In 1939 the Germans had signed the German-Soviet Non-aggression Pact with the Soviet Union. This document secretly divided most of eastern Europe between the two powers. For Hitler it removed the worry of having to fight a war on his eastern front while also waging war against England and France in the west. For the Soviet leader Stalin, it meant that he could turn all his attention to a possible attack on his easstern flank by Japan.

http://www.unmuseum.org/hitlerwins.htm
"Of Arms and Man I Sing"-The Aenid written by Virgil-Virgil commenced his epic story of Aeneas and the founding of Rome with the words: Arma virumque cano--"Of arms and man I sing.Aeneas receives full treatment in Roman mythology, most extensively in Virgil's Aeneid, where he is an ancestor of Romulus and Remus. He became the first true hero of Rome

Offline DemolitionMan

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Re: Alternate History:Oil and Triumph of Nazi Germany
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2017, 05:53:12 am »
Hitler's keys to victory was Gibraltar British port and Suez Canal. If he took both of them away from the British, the Mediterranean Sea would have been an "Axis Lake" and had a better ability to harass British shipping and link up with Japan. Also, Britain would have a tough time moving men and material to England.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 06:02:51 am by DemolitionMan »
"Of Arms and Man I Sing"-The Aenid written by Virgil-Virgil commenced his epic story of Aeneas and the founding of Rome with the words: Arma virumque cano--"Of arms and man I sing.Aeneas receives full treatment in Roman mythology, most extensively in Virgil's Aeneid, where he is an ancestor of Romulus and Remus. He became the first true hero of Rome

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Alternate History:Oil and Triumph of Nazi Germany
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2017, 09:45:51 pm »
Oil access remains a principal reason to start wars for both Germany and Japan.  Both failed to secure the early access successes they had and both lost.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline DemolitionMan

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Re: Alternate History:Oil and Triumph of Nazi Germany
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2017, 09:49:29 pm »
Oil access remains a principal reason to start wars for both Germany and Japan.  Both failed to secure the early access successes they had and both lost.

 :beer:
"Of Arms and Man I Sing"-The Aenid written by Virgil-Virgil commenced his epic story of Aeneas and the founding of Rome with the words: Arma virumque cano--"Of arms and man I sing.Aeneas receives full treatment in Roman mythology, most extensively in Virgil's Aeneid, where he is an ancestor of Romulus and Remus. He became the first true hero of Rome

Offline Joe Wooten

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Re: Alternate History:Oil and Triumph of Nazi Germany
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2017, 02:11:21 am »
Hitler's keys to victory was Gibraltar British port and Suez Canal. If he took both of them away from the British, the Mediterranean Sea would have been an "Axis Lake" and had a better ability to harass British shipping and link up with Japan. Also, Britain would have a tough time moving men and material to England.

The Axis still would not have won the war. What everyone completely ignores is that by bringing the US into active participation in the war, the Axis powers signed their death warrants. Due to the depression, the US still had tremendous slack in it's industrial capacity. In fact, we had more slack capacity than Germany, Italy, and Japan's total industrial capacity. Our total industrial potential was greater than all the rest of the world combined. Trent Telenko has documented this over at the Chicago Boys website. It makes for very interesting reading.

Hell, we put 13 million men in uniform, built the largest and most powerful Navy the world has ever seen, ~250000 military aircraft, over 50000 tanks, and enough munitions that our military was still using WW2 stockpiles 30 years later. We fed and fueled the whole world, all the while raising the standard of living at home.

Japan and Italy were stretched to the limit the moment they entered the war, and Germany was by late 1944, while the US had to cut back production in Fall 1944 because we were not going to need it. American production had just finished warming up and had not yet peaked out. If the Germans had been able to prolong the war into 1946, they would have been nuked first in August 1945.

The Axis powers were doomed from December 7, 1941 on.

Offline DemolitionMan

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Re: Alternate History:Oil and Triumph of Nazi Germany
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2017, 02:34:21 am »
The Axis still would not have won the war. What everyone completely ignores is that by bringing the US into active participation in the war, the Axis powers signed their death warrants. Due to the depression, the US still had tremendous slack in it's industrial capacity. In fact, we had more slack capacity than Germany, Italy, and Japan's total industrial capacity. Our total industrial potential was greater than all the rest of the world combined. Trent Telenko has documented this over at the Chicago Boys website. It makes for very interesting reading.

Hell, we put 13 million men in uniform, built the largest and most powerful Navy the world has ever seen, ~250000 military aircraft, over 50000 tanks, and enough munitions that our military was still using WW2 stockpiles 30 years later. We fed and fueled the whole world, all the while raising the standard of living at home.

Japan and Italy were stretched to the limit the moment they entered the war, and Germany was by late 1944, while the US had to cut back production in Fall 1944 because we were not going to need it. American production had just finished warming up and had not yet peaked out. If the Germans had been able to prolong the war into 1946, they would have been nuked first in August 1945.

The Axis powers were doomed from December 7, 1941 on.

This is from 1940. If Hitler completely ignored Operation Sea Lion and put Operation Felix into effect with the help of General Franco.A British invasion was to be postponed until 1941.German military leaders proceeded to prepare for a large-scale operation against Gibraltar. The plan called for two German army corps to enter Spain across the Pyrenees. One corps, under General Ludwig Kübler, was to cross Spain and assault Gibraltar, while the other, commanded by General Rudolf Schmidt, was to secure its flanks. Air support would need one fighter and two dive-bomber wings. Overall command of Felix was to be assigned to Field Marshal Walther von Reichenau. The plan also made provisions for occupying Spanish possessions in North Africa: Spanish Morocco, Río de Oro, and the Canary Islands, whose ports could then be used as bases for German U-boats. Luftwaffe had already plans for implementing Fuhrer Directive 18.

http://www.alternatewars.com/WW2/WW2_Documents/Fuhrer_Directives/FD_18.htm

« Last Edit: September 28, 2017, 02:39:02 am by DemolitionMan »
"Of Arms and Man I Sing"-The Aenid written by Virgil-Virgil commenced his epic story of Aeneas and the founding of Rome with the words: Arma virumque cano--"Of arms and man I sing.Aeneas receives full treatment in Roman mythology, most extensively in Virgil's Aeneid, where he is an ancestor of Romulus and Remus. He became the first true hero of Rome

Offline Joe Wooten

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Re: Alternate History:Oil and Triumph of Nazi Germany
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2017, 12:33:20 pm »
It still would not have helped. All it would have done was prolong the war long enough to allow Germany to get nuked.

Offline DemolitionMan

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Re: Alternate History:Oil and Triumph of Nazi Germany
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2017, 02:08:10 am »
It still would not have helped. All it would have done was prolong the war long enough to allow Germany to get nuked.

We do not known it if it was implemented right?
« Last Edit: September 29, 2017, 02:09:37 am by DemolitionMan »
"Of Arms and Man I Sing"-The Aenid written by Virgil-Virgil commenced his epic story of Aeneas and the founding of Rome with the words: Arma virumque cano--"Of arms and man I sing.Aeneas receives full treatment in Roman mythology, most extensively in Virgil's Aeneid, where he is an ancestor of Romulus and Remus. He became the first true hero of Rome