Obama’s Watergate

[Right_in_Virginia]

Obama’s Watergate
The American Spectator, Sep 22, 2017, Daniel J. Flynn

Vladimir Putin did not hack the election. Barack Obama did.

Donald Trump said earlier this year that the Obama Administration wiretapped his campaign. “Like I’d want to hear more from that fool?” President Obama scoffed.

But CNN reported on Monday, “US investigators wiretapped former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort under secret court orders before and after the election…. The government snooping continued into early this year, including a period when Manafort was known to talk to President Donald Trump.”

The network labeled their story an exclusive. But, in fact, Breitbart, radio host Mark Levin, the realDonaldTrump Twitter account, and numerous other sources reported the wiretapping more than six months ago.

<snip>

The all-smoke-no-fire Russia investigation looks increasingly like a smoke screen aimed to put out a very different fire. Rather than an investigation into malfeasance by the Trump campaign, does the Robert Mueller inquiry serve as a clean-up operation to justify Obama administration malfeasance? The bugging of the opposition party’s presidential campaign, at least when done by Republicans, ranks not only as criminal but as the biggest political scandal in American history.


Read more:  https://spectator.org/obamas-watergate/

[anubias]

It is mind-boggling to me that Trump is the one under investigation.  Obama's corrupt State Department appears to still be running the show and nobody appears to give a damn.

[Sanguine]

"Watergate"?  This should make Watergate look like a nothing. 

[mountaineer]

Obama's corrupt State Department appears to still be running the show and nobody appears to give a damn.

Foggy Bottom is the swamp that must be cleared - completely! What was true when GWB took office is true today: the previous Dem administration was utterly corrupt and politically treasonous, and the damage they have done to this nation is immeasurable.

[mountaineer]

Obama’s Spy Scandal? James Clapper Claims FISA Wiretap Of Paul Manafort Conducted Without His Knowledge
by Larry O'Connor | 7:52 am, September 21st, 2017

Earlier this week CNN reported what radio talk show host (and former Justice Department official) Mark Levin revealed in March, that secret FISA court orders had been implemented during the Obama Administration to wire tap Paul Manafort. Mediaite then pointed out that the former Director of National Intelligence under President Obama, James Clapper, had unequivocally denied the existence of any such FISA wiretap during an interview on Meet the Press:

    CHUCK TODD: Yeah, I was just going to say, if the F.B.I., for instance, had a FISA court order of some sort for a surveillance, would that be information you would know or not know?

    JAMES CLAPPER:  Yes.

    TODD:  You would be told this?

    CLAPPER:  I would know that.

    TODD:  If there was a FISA court order–

    CLAPPER:  Yes.

    TODD:  –on something like this.

    CLAPPER:  Something like this, absolutely.

    TODD:  And at this point, you can’t confirm or deny whether that exists?

    CLAPPER:  I can deny it.

Please pay careful attention to the words used in the above exchange. Chuck Todd lays out a very specific scenario.  If the FBI had a FISA order for surveillance of a member (or members) of the Trump campaign team, would James Clapper know about it? Clapper stated with no ambiguity that he would. He went on to firmly and uncategorically deny it.   ...

More at Mediaite

[Sanguine]

Foggy Bottom is the swamp that must be cleared - completely! What was true when GWB took office is true today: the previous Dem administration was utterly corrupt and politically treasonous, and the damage they have done to this nation is immeasurable.

@mountaineer, did you read that article by Daniel Greenfield:   http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,281932.msg1456957.html#msg1456957?

Good explanation of what we are seeing.

[jpsb]

Obama’s Watergate

The all-smoke-no-fire Russia investigation looks increasingly like a smoke screen aimed to put out a very different fire. Rather than an investigation into malfeasance by the Trump campaign, does the Robert Mueller inquiry serve as a clean-up operation to justify Obama administration malfeasance? The bugging of the opposition party’s presidential campaign, at least when done by Republicans, ranks not only as criminal but as the biggest political scandal in American history.


Read more:  https://spectator.org/obamas-watergate/

Mueller is dirty, he and Comey have been covering for the Clintons for years. As anyone see our AG Jeff Sessions?

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Mueller is dirty, he and Comey have been covering for the Clintons for years. As anyone see our AG Jeff Sessions?

Sessions is as ill-informed and misguided here as he was in enthusiastically endorsing Eric Holder as AG as someone who would not be political.

Senator Jeff Sessions of Alabama, for example, said he was sure that Mr. Holder would be “a responsible legal officer and not a politician.” 
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/03/us/politics/03holder.html?mcubz=1

[Concerned]

Of course, Obama didn’t have Trump’s “wires tapped”, but rather Paul Manafort was wiretapped as part of a FISA warrant issued by a US Judge as requested by the Department of Justice.

Here’s what Trump actually tweeted:

“Terrible! Just found out that Obama had my "wires tapped" in Trump Tower just before the victory. Nothing found. This is McCarthyism!”

This is obviously untrue as Trump’s wires weren’t tapped, Manafort’s were.  In fact, Trump’s own DOJ confirmed this tweet was false earlier this month when they acknowledged as much:

“The Justice Department said in a court filing Friday evening that it has no evidence to support President Donald Trump's assertion in March that his predecessor, Barack Obama, wiretapped the phones in Trump Tower before last year's election.

"Both FBI and NSD confirm that they have no records related to wiretaps as described by the March 4, 2017 tweets," the department's motion reads. NSD refers to the department's national security division.”

I don’t think this “scandal” will be anything near Watergate-levels until impeachment proceedings are held (which I think is unlikely).

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/02/politics/justice-department-trump-tower-wiretap/index.html

[Bigun]

Obamagate makes Watergate look like Sunday School by comparison and not one damned thing will be done about it!

[truth_seeker]

Susan Rice unmasked 260 people. Bolton unmasked 10 people.

Of course the line will be Obama don't know; Hillary don't know. Which is BS.

Gingrich discussed this on Hannity yesterday, and said Congress should have Rice under oath before committees.

[mountaineer]

@mountaineer, did you read that article by Daniel Greenfield:   http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,281932.msg1456957.html#msg1456957?

Good explanation of what we are seeing.

Wow, thanks for that. Who would have thought we'd come to this?

[Sanguine]

Wow, thanks for that. Who would have thought we'd come to this?

Particularly shocking when it's laid out that clearly, isn't it?

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

Of course, Obama didn’t have Trump’s “wires tapped”, but rather Paul Manafort was wiretapped as part of a FISA warrant issued by a US Judge as requested by the Department of Justice.

Here’s what Trump actually tweeted:

“Terrible! Just found out that Obama had my "wires tapped" in Trump Tower just before the victory. Nothing found. This is McCarthyism!”

This is obviously untrue as Trump’s wires weren’t tapped, Manafort’s were.  In fact, Trump’s own DOJ confirmed this tweet was false earlier this month when they acknowledged as much:

“The Justice Department said in a court filing Friday evening that it has no evidence to support President Donald Trump's assertion in March that his predecessor, Barack Obama, wiretapped the phones in Trump Tower before last year's election.

"Both FBI and NSD confirm that they have no records related to wiretaps as described by the March 4, 2017 tweets," the department's motion reads. NSD refers to the department's national security division.”

I don’t think this “scandal” will be anything near Watergate-levels until impeachment proceedings are held (which I think is unlikely).

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/02/politics/justice-department-trump-tower-wiretap/index.html

I though Manafort lived in Trump Tower?

If so, it's probable that "Trump's" wires were tapped, technically, since he owns them.

[Concerned]

I though Manafort lived in Trump Tower?

If so, it's probable that "Trump's" wires were tapped, technically, since he owns them.

Manafort's home where the search warrant was conducted was in Virginia.  Even so, I seriously doubt that Trump "owns" the phones and their associated lines in every residence in Trump Tower.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/fbi-executed-search-warrant-paul-manaforts-home-russia/story?id=49112676

[Sanguine]

Manafort's home where the search warrant was conducted was in Virginia.  Even so, I seriously doubt that Trump "owns" the phones and their associated lines in every residence in Trump Tower.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/fbi-executed-search-warrant-paul-manaforts-home-russia/story?id=49112676

But, we do know that Manafort spoke regularly and frequently to Trump, hence Trump's communications would have also been captured.

[Concerned]

But, we do know that Manafort spoke regularly and frequently to Trump, hence Trump's communications would have also been captured.

I personally don't believe that Trump was referring to him being caught up incidentally in a legal, court-issued warrant against someone else when he tweeted:

“Terrible! Just found out that Obama had my "wires tapped" in Trump Tower just before the victory. Nothing found. This is McCarthyism!”

If that is indeed what he was referring to, it's incredibly misleading to the American public IMO.

[Sanguine]

I personally don't believe that Trump was referring to him being caught up incidentally in a legal, court-issued warrant against someone else when he tweeted:

“Terrible! Just found out that Obama had my "wires tapped" in Trump Tower just before the victory. Nothing found. This is McCarthyism!”

If that is indeed what he was referring to, it's incredibly misleading to the American public IMO.

Not sure why you say that.  It appears the intent was indeed to capture Trump communications.

[Concerned]

Not sure why you say that.  It appears the intent was indeed to capture Trump communications.

Any yet, even Trump’s own Justice Department have stated they can’t find records to support his “wire tapping” tweet.  From Reply #8:

"Both FBI and NSD confirm that they have no records related to wiretaps as described by the March 4, 2017 tweets," the department's motion reads. NSD refers to the department's national security division.”

I expect that they can’t find records to support them because Trump’s wires weren’t tapped.  Manafort’s were.  I think the pretzel that Trump’s staff and his supporters twist themselves into in an attempt to defend his nonsensical, false, and misleading statements humiliate both themselves and the American people.   

[Sanguine]

Any yet, even Trump’s own Justice Department have stated they can’t find records to support his “wire tapping” tweet.  From Reply #8:

"Both FBI and NSD confirm that they have no records related to wiretaps as described by the March 4, 2017 tweets," the department's motion reads. NSD refers to the department's national security division.”

I expect that they can’t find records to support them because Trump’s wires weren’t tapped.  Manafort’s were.  I think the pretzel that Trump’s staff and his supporters twist themselves into in an attempt to defend his nonsensical, false, and misleading statements humiliate both themselves and the American people.

Odd argument you are making.  Manafort's "wires" were tapped in order to capture Trump.  I understand that you don't like Trump, but that doesn't change the basic facts.

[Concerned]

Odd argument you are making.  Manafort's "wires" were tapped in order to capture Trump.  I understand that you don't like Trump, but that doesn't change the basic facts.

I've seen no evidence that the "intent" of the Manafort's wiretaps were to explictly capture Trump.  You keep saying that, but where's the evidence that supports the assertion?

Relative to Trump, I try to be objective, and I rely on facts, data, evidence, and truth.  I praise him when I think he deserves praise (e.g., Gorsuch, deregulations, hurricane support) and criticize him when I think he deserves criticism (e.g.,  broken promises on major campaign promises like proposing a Constitutional Amendment on term limits, “Lock her up”, and Mexico paying for the wall).  I wish everyone tried to be objective.

[Sanguine]

I've seen no evidence that the "intent" of the Manafort's wiretaps were to explictly capture Trump.  You keep saying that, but where's the evidence that supports the assertion?

Relative to Trump, I try to be objective, and I rely on facts, data, evidence, and truth.  I praise him when I think he deserves praise (e.g., Gorsuch, deregulations, hurricane support) and criticize him when I think he deserves criticism (e.g.,  broken promises on major campaign promises like proposing a Constitutional Amendment on term limits, “Lock her up”, and Mexico paying for the wall).  I wish everyone tried to be objective.

Tell you what - read this excellent piece by Greenfield and then we can discuss this:  http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,281932.msg1456957.html#msg1456957?

I'll find some more information for you when I get a minute. 

[Concerned]

Tell you what - read this excellent piece by Greenfield and then we can discuss this:  http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,281932.msg1456957.html#msg1456957?

I'll find some more information for you when I get a minute.

I read it earlier.  Lots of assertions about "crimes", "criminal motives", and attempts to sow outrage by talking about such things as the "Obama espionage operation".  Even the article notes that we don't everything: 

"When we learn the whole truth (if we ever do), we will likely discover that Obama Inc. assembled a motley collection of different technically legal pretexts to spy on Trump’s team."

The bold above is key IMO:  if we ever discover the whole truth, and we are "likely".  Fine, Greenfield is entitled to his opinion but that's all that is:  opinion.  Look, I'd love to "Lock her up".  I'd love even more to "Lock him up" (Obama).  I'm afraid that thinking Obama or someone from his Administration is going to be locked up over a legally issued FISA warrant is just kooky-talk.  At least IMO.

[Sanguine]

I read it earlier.  Lots of assertions about "crimes", "criminal motives", and attempts to sow outrage by talking about such things as the "Obama espionage operation".  Even the article notes that we don't everything: 

"When we learn the whole truth (if we ever do), we will likely discover that Obama Inc. assembled a motley collection of different technically legal pretexts to spy on Trump’s team."

The bold above is key IMO:  if we ever discover the whole truth, and we are "likely".  Fine, Greenfield is entitled to his opinion but that's all that is:  opinion.  Look, I'd love to "Lock her up".  I'd love even more to "Lock him up" (Obama).  I'm afraid that thinking Obama or someone from his Administration is going to be locked up over a legally issued FISA warrant is just kooky-talk.  At least IMO.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

[Concerned]

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

That's well and good if there's actual EVIDENCE that it's a cigar.  In this particular case, we have a bunch of speculation, hope, and desire that IF we ever find out the "whole truth" Greenfield feels "we will likely discover" Obama used "legal pretexts to spy on the Trump's team".   When that day comes, I'll celebrate. Until then, I'll await the actual evidence, truth, data, and facts. 

Regardless, it's nice to have a civil discussion and disagreement with someone without it degenerating into snark and personal attacks.  Have a great night!