Trump would sign Graham-Cassidy repeal bill.

[jmyrlefuller]

At this point.... the best option for the GOP is to let the damned thing collapse.... and then repeal is a given, logically.  And hell.... as we already know.... the GOP is going to get the blame now for whatever happens anyway with ObieCare.... whether they pass anything or whether they don't pass anything.  They might as well let it fail as it was always supposed to do.... and 'then' repeal should be a done deal.  They could enact an emergency funding bill to cover all of those folks that are left hanging.... since taxpayers are going to be paying out the azz for those people ANYWAY.

Intact for another quarter, before it collapses. And I will take the collapse as a better option than a half fix by the supposed 'opposition', who should be hell bent to tear it out by the roots.

Me wating for a government program to collapse:

[Smokin Joe]

The perfect is the enemy of the good.  Jonah Goldberg wrote this morning that Rand Paul "has mastered the art of supporting the status quo by voting against piecemeal improvements in the name of purity."

He's a fool, pure and simple - and the rest of us will suffer for his foolishness.

Actually the lesser evil is the greatest enemy of the good. it is the single degree by which the pot gets warmer and all the little froggies lose their ability to jump out when they realize just how hot the water is. It is that sufferable increment of tyranny which is the enemy of freedom, easily adapted to, tolerated with complaint, but not severe enough to provoke a backlash.
It is the gradation by which we have been robbed of incalculable Liberty in just my lifetime, and the method by which we continue to be robbed. With the unmitigated success of this coup over who lives or dies and who pays for it (often the people who can't afford the insurance but make enough to be taxed for it, unlike the sonsofbitches who imposed this but are immune to the law they passed for us), you want to piss around stopping this?
If not now, when will people stand for their Constitution, when their very lives and health are on the line?

This cannot be fixed in small bits, it needs to be cut our, every diseased cell of it.

[XenaLee]

  Me wating for a government program to collapse:

Well..... let's put it this way.   Obamacare will collapse on its own....

unless the RINOs in the GOP succeed in propping it up with their version of a Patch & Replace BS bill. 

[roamer_1]

At this point.... the best option for the GOP is to let the damned thing collapse.... and then repeal is a given, logically.  And hell.... as we already know.... the GOP is going to get the blame now for whatever happens anyway with ObieCare.... whether they pass anything or whether they don't pass anything.  They might as well let it fail as it was always supposed to do.... and 'then' repeal should be a done deal.  They could enact an emergency funding bill to cover all of those folks that are left hanging.... since taxpayers are going to be paying out the azz for those people ANYWAY.

No, At the point of collapse the Republicans will push single payer - We will have to battle harder to defeat that than ever before. It will be bipartisan and hawked by the president too.

But the failure is a better stance than the fix - the fix making the idea of government healthcare bipartisan... And thereby, without any opposition, so it can root in as deeply as it can.

[XenaLee]

No, At the point of collapse the Republicans will push single payer - We will have to battle harder to defeat that than ever before. It will be bipartisan and hawked by the president too.

But the failure is a better stance than the fix - the fix making the idea of government healthcare bipartisan... And thereby, without any opposition, so it can root in as deeply as it can.

That's..... what worries me the most right now.   That the real ultimate goal of Trump (since he isn't exactly making any of those "great deals" to get rid of ObamaCare) is to implement single payer healthcare and to make it look like 'he had no choice'.  He will take FULL credit for that accomplishment with his Democrat friends, of course....and his entire Democrat family will be thrilled.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

Well..... let's put it this way.   Obamacare will collapse on its own....

Like Social Security, or any other government program?

[Smokin Joe]

That's..... what worries me the most right now.   That the real ultimate goal of Trump (since he isn't exactly making any of those "great deals" to get rid of ObamaCare) is to implement single payer healthcare and to make it look like 'he had no choice'.  He will take FULL credit for that accomplishment with his Democrat friends, of course....and his entire Democrat family will be thrilled.

Recall, if you will how great he thought the Canadian and English systems are. We used to have Canadians coming down to the US for medical treatment all the time, especially if they had cancer or a heart condition, because the waiting lists up there were a death sentence.

[roamer_1]

That's..... what worries me the most right now.   That the real ultimate goal of Trump (since he isn't exactly making any of those "great deals" to get rid of ObamaCare) is to implement single payer healthcare and to make it look like 'he had no choice'.  He will take FULL credit for that accomplishment with his Democrat friends, of course....and his entire Democrat family will be thrilled.

That's right. He's been for single payer all the way along... which is why he (and others) stifled alternatives that would have repealed. This is what the garden path looks like... The only path they convince you not to take is the path out... Any other path you choose will lead to the central rose garden anyway.

[XenaLee]

Like Social Security, or any other government program?

Um.... if you are going to quote me, at least be honest enough to include the entire quote.  Mkay?

unless the RINOs in the GOP succeed in propping it up with their version of a Patch & Replace BS bill.

[XenaLee]

Recall, if you will how great he thought the Canadian and English systems are. We used to have Canadians coming down to the US for medical treatment all the time, especially if they had cancer or a heart condition, because the waiting lists up there were a death sentence.

Which shows two things.  One, that he was ill-informed even back then ...and/or Two, that he was stretching the truth (lying) and knew damned well that Canadians were having to come to the USA to get treatment because they had too long a waiting list in their great and grand socialist, single payer system country.

It may not have been true back then, but I predict that it will be true eventually.... ie Trump lied, people died.  That may sound harsh, but if he ends up facilitating single-payer healthcare in the US (under his presidency).... it will come true.  People are already dying waiting for treatment under the VA system (single payer) government run "healthcare" for US vets.

[Smokin Joe]

Which shows two things.  One, that he was ill-informed even back then ...and/or Two, that he was stretching the truth (lying) and knew damned well that Canadians were having to come to the USA to get treatment because they had too long a waiting list in their great and grand socialist, single payer system country.

It may not have been true back then, but I predict that it will be true eventually.... ie Trump lied, people died.  That may sound harsh, but if he ends up facilitating single-payer healthcare in the US (under his presidency).... it will come true.  People are already dying waiting for treatment under the VA system (single payer) government run "healthcare" for US vets.

Theoretically, my wife and kids are covered under "Indian Health". I say "Theoretically", because that's how well that system operates. I considered it to be a poster child in the campaign against the ACA to begin with. There is nothing that the private sector can do that the government cannot do half as well at five times the expense, and only take three times as long to do it (if at all).

The bottom line is that government does not belong between me and my doctor. It has no business in the health insurance business.

[jmyrlefuller]

That's right. He's been for single payer all the way along... which is why he (and others) stifled alternatives that would have repealed. This is what the garden path looks like... The only path they convince you not to take is the path out... Any other path you choose will lead to the central rose garden anyway.

But what you want is to jump straight to the exit, even though there are roadblocks in the way, and if they don't remove those roadblocks right now you're just going to stand right where you are, all while you're on a conveyor belt headed to that central rose garden.

Start by turning around!

[roamer_1]

But what you want is to jump straight to the exit, even though there are roadblocks in the way, and if they don't remove those roadblocks right now you're just going to stand right where you are, all while you're on a conveyor belt headed to that central rose garden.

Start by turning around!

You won't turn around - that's the problem.

[Jazzhead]

Kudos to jmyrlefuller for his voice of reason.   I've gotten weary of conservatives with blinders on, conservatives who'd rather keep ObamaCare if they can't achieve their impossible dream of outright repeal, conservatives who petulantly wish disaster on millions if they can't get their way.

This bill is a step forward, and one that deserves conservative support.  It embodies the principles of federalism, by unleashing the states to come up with what's best to help those with lower incomes gain health coverage,  and by changing O-Care from an unending entitlement to a fixed-cost (from the federal perspective) program of block grants.   

The biggest flaw in the bill, IMO, is the elimination of the individual mandate while retaining the requirement that insurance address folks with pre-existing conditions.  If it were me,  I'd get rid of the jobs-killing employer mandate, but keep and even increase the individual mandate.   A functional insurance market requires participation by the healthy as well as the sick.  That's the purpose of the individual mandate.  Without it,  insurers are susceptible to the insurance death spiral, whereby the sick get paid but not enough of the healthy pay in.   The easy fix for that is, of course, single payer, where the system is propped up by general taxation.   To me,  the best way to avoid single payer is to strike a simple bargain with folks - be responsible and help will be on the way if you get sick;  be an irresponsible free rider, and you're on your own.   

[txradioguy]

Kudos to jmyrlefuller for his voice of reason.   I've gotten weary of conservatives with blinders on, conservatives who'd rather keep ObamaCare if they can't achieve their impossible dream of outright repeal, conservatives who petulantly wish disaster on millions if they can't get their way.

This bill is a step forward, and one that deserves conservative support.  It embodies the principles of federalism, by unleashing the states to come up with what's best to help those with lower incomes gain health coverage,  and by changing O-Care from an unending entitlement to a fixed-cost (from the federal perspective) program of block grants.   

The biggest flaw in the bill, IMO, is the elimination of the individual mandate while retaining the requirement that insurance address folks with pre-existing conditions.  If it were me,  I'd get rid of the jobs-killing employer mandate, but keep and even increase the individual mandate.   A functional insurance market requires participation by the healthy as well as the sick.  That's the purpose of the individual mandate.  Without it,  insurers are susceptible to the insurance death spiral, whereby the sick get paid but not enough of the healthy pay in.   The easy fix for that is, of course, single payer, where the system is propped up by general taxation.   To me,  the best way to avoid single payer is to strike a simple bargain with folks - be responsible and help will be on the way if you get sick;  be an irresponsible free rider, and you're on your own.   

Completely 100% wrong.  It doesn't empower the states.  The Feds still controls everything.  It just rearranges deck chairs.

This is a Republican establishment shell game...and it WILL lead to single payer.

But then deep down I think that's what you want anyway.

[Cyber Liberty]

Completely 100% wrong.  It doesn't empower the states.  The Feds still controls everything.  It just rearranges deck chairs.

This is a Republican establishment shell game...and it WILL lead to single payer.

But then deep down I think that's what you want anyway.

Don't know if he wants "single payer," but he's stated repeatedly he wants the Republican brand stamped on Obamacare. 

[Jazzhead]

Completely 100% wrong.  It doesn't empower the states.  The Feds still controls everything. 

Please explain what you mean, with specifics.   

[txradioguy]

Please explain what you mean, with specifics.

Graham/Cassidy keeps ObamaCare funding and regulations in place.  Oh, it rearranges the furniture a bit, changes some names, and otherwise masks what is really going on – a redistribution of ObamaCare taxes and a new Republican entitlement program, funded nearly as extravagantly as ObamaCare.

Graham/Cassidy doesn’t repeal a single ObamaCare insurance regulation.  All of the Title 1 rules, the Essential Health Benefit rules, all of them - they’re still in place here.

People will still be required to have healthcare even if they are young healthy and don't want it.  This new "lite" version of the ACA still has the states going to the Federal Government on bended knee to ask for exceptions to policy to run their health care insurance differently that what the Feds will require.

Unless the Federal meddling into health insurance and the health care system stop and they return it the private sector where it belongs, any "fix" is destined to fail.

And when it fails welcome to the worst case scenario, single payer.

[txradioguy]

Don't know if he wants "single payer," but he's stated repeatedly he wants the Republican brand stamped on Obamacare.

And when the Republican "fix" fails, and it will if it's passed, the Dems will then use that as Exhibit A of why the country needs single payer healthcare fully managed by the Federal Government.

And they'll get it too because they will make the Republicans the scapegoat for the Liberals failed program.

People supporting these "fixes" are only helping to speed up the inevitable.

[Bigun]

I am unable to find the actual bill in question here but IF the writer of the story linked to below is correct I'm all for it!

https://www.vox.com/health-care/2017/9/20/16333338/obamacare-repeal-graham-cassidy

[txradioguy]

I am unable to find the actual bill in question here but IF the writer of the story linked to below is correct I'm all for it!

https://www.vox.com/health-care/2017/9/20/16333338/obamacare-repeal-graham-cassidy

I'm not believing anything that comes from any publication run by Ezra Klein.

Neither should you.