Author Topic: Exclusive: US government wiretapped former Trump campaign chairman (Manafort)  (Read 6650 times)

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Offline edpc

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Re: Exclusive: US government wiretapped former Trump campaign chairman (Manafort)
« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2017, 02:34:07 am »
I'm saying wiretapping any american campaign  is a big deal.   I could care less about ukraines.

You should, because there's a whole lot more to this story involving Obama, Nuland, Manafort, Yanukovich, Russia, the Maidan Revolution, Crimea, and Donbass.  It's an incredibly tangled mess.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline DB

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Re: Exclusive: US government wiretapped former Trump campaign chairman (Manafort)
« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2017, 02:40:15 am »
You should, because there's a whole lot more to this story involving Obama, Nuland, Manafort, Yanukovich, Russia, the Maidan Revolution, Crimea, and Donbass.  It's an incredibly tangled mess.

Yes it looks like a massive mess. And what's worse is I have no faith in the FBI, NSA and others to sort it out. They've proven themselves to be thoroughly corrupt.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Exclusive: US government wiretapped former Trump campaign chairman (Manafort)
« Reply #27 on: September 19, 2017, 02:55:01 am »
All I can say is Obama and crew better have a damn good reason why they wiretapped Trump's campaign chairman.

Yes, I still want to know why an outgoing administration was spying on an incoming administration?  What were they going to do with the information gained?

Offline DB

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Re: Exclusive: US government wiretapped former Trump campaign chairman (Manafort)
« Reply #28 on: September 19, 2017, 02:58:06 am »
I'm saying wiretapping any american campaign  is a big deal.   I could care less about ukraines.

I think to wiretap your political opponent's campaign chairman in a presidential election is a big deal and that it requires pretty exceptional reasons to do. The question is do those exceptional reasons exist?

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Exclusive: US government wiretapped former Trump campaign chairman (Manafort)
« Reply #29 on: September 19, 2017, 03:05:00 am »
Yes, I still want to know why an outgoing administration was spying on an incoming administration?  What were they going to do with the information gained?

Blackmail.  Seems to be working, too.
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Exclusive: US government wiretapped former Trump campaign chairman (Manafort)
« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2017, 03:07:46 am »
Blackmail.  Seems to be working, too.

I can't think of another scenario. 

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Exclusive: US government wiretapped former Trump campaign chairman (Manafort)
« Reply #31 on: September 19, 2017, 03:19:10 am »
I can't think of another scenario.

Hey, another pie thread just broke out....
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline DB

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Re: Exclusive: US government wiretapped former Trump campaign chairman (Manafort)
« Reply #32 on: September 19, 2017, 03:26:32 am »
Blackmail.  Seems to be working, too.

Then why would Trump say his phones were tapped leading to possible exposure of the blackmail content?

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Exclusive: US government wiretapped former Trump campaign chairman (Manafort)
« Reply #33 on: September 19, 2017, 03:31:27 am »
Then why would Trump say his phones were tapped leading to possible exposure of the blackmail content?

Which side of the blackmail would you suppose Trump is on?
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline DB

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Re: Exclusive: US government wiretapped former Trump campaign chairman (Manafort)
« Reply #34 on: September 19, 2017, 04:00:03 am »
Which side of the blackmail would you suppose Trump is on?

The implication is that Trump was being blackmailed for something he or his campaign did. I'm saying why would Trump expose himself by saying his phones were tapped if that were the case? Now it isn't past Trump to do something really stupid, but stupid is the only apparent answer if he was in fact being blackmailed due to wiretaps.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Exclusive: US government wiretapped former Trump campaign chairman (Manafort)
« Reply #35 on: September 19, 2017, 04:02:43 am »
I'm saying wiretapping any american campaign  is a big deal.   I could care less about ukraines.
Well, it was when the Watergate was the target. It's why every stinking scandal has "-gate" after it. I reckon that's a big deal.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Exclusive: US government wiretapped former Trump campaign chairman (Manafort)
« Reply #36 on: September 19, 2017, 04:04:17 am »
Blackmail.  Seems to be working, too.
With such a squeaky clean past, I'm sure they couldn't find anything on him  *****rollingeyes***** :whistle:
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline DB

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Re: Exclusive: US government wiretapped former Trump campaign chairman (Manafort)
« Reply #37 on: September 19, 2017, 04:13:56 am »
With such a squeaky clean past, I'm sure they couldn't find anything on him  *****rollingeyes***** :whistle:

That's why it is going way out on a limb to defend him. The odds of the limb getting sawed off are high...

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Exclusive: US government wiretapped former Trump campaign chairman (Manafort)
« Reply #38 on: September 19, 2017, 04:52:38 am »
I think to wiretap your political opponent's campaign chairman in a presidential election is a big deal and that it requires pretty exceptional reasons to do. The question is do those exceptional reasons exist?

Maybe check with Comey. He is as honest as they come, according to his reputation, UNTIL THE LAST YEAR.
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Re: Exclusive: US government wiretapped former Trump campaign chairman (Manafort)
« Reply #39 on: September 19, 2017, 06:10:33 am »
From Clarice Feldman, Facebook entry:

A former FBI agent on the Manafort wiretapping story:

(1) This just reinforces my frustrations with Trump's DoJ. Is it any wonder that Trump went ballistic at Sessions? DoJ, when all is said and done, was the gatekeeper for most of this. All FISAs went through them. All investigations went through them. What did McConnell/Ryan know about all this? Plenty, I'd say. They SHOULDA been in a hurry to get Sessions confirmed and in charge. Instead--backstabbing.:

(2) This is the part that makes me think that the 2014 FISA was on the Ukrainians, seen as allies of the Russians (before the coup in Ukraine):

the Intelligence collected under secret court orders reportedly sparked concerns among Investigators that Manafort had some sort of relationship with the Russians, and that they say was the basis.

This is convoluted. It seems to be saying:

The intel collected under the 2014 FISA was used as the basis for the 2016 FISA. BUT ... the concerns about a Manafort/Russia relationship {of "some sort") only came up--were "sparked"--when the results from the 2014 FISA started coming in. IOW, they couldn't have gotten the FISA on Manafort in 2014 because they didn't have the concerns until later. THEREFORE, the FISA must have been on some subject that DID have a known relationship with the Russian government--the pre-coup Ukrainian government.

THEN, comes the 2016 FISA. But notice something. The 2014 FISA only led to "concerns" of "some sort" of "relationship" between Manafort and Putin's Russia--presumably mediated through his relationship with the pro-Russian Ukrainian government. Here's my speculation.

That seems pretty thin as a basis for the 2016 FISA. "Some sort" of "relationship" isn't enough. There needs to be an agent relationship--with the Russian government. That allegation isn't made. It's only suspected, based on vague notions. And significantly, by 2016 the pro-Russian Ukrainian government is totally out of the picture--replaced by a government that was antagonistic toward Russia. Did the Obama Admin then have articulable evidence that Manafort, no longer an agent for Ukraine, had in fact become an agent for Russia? We don't hear about that, but it seems to me that with the Ukraine/Russia connection no longer in existence, the 2014 FISA intel would be of very limited relevance unless it went well beyond "concerns" of "some sort" of "relationship" between Manafort and Putin's Russia.

I'd REALLY like to see that FISA application. I'm speculating, but as Peter Sellers (The Fox) said in After The Fox: "I suspect ze, ze ... hanky panky!"
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Maybe the whole thing is a deliberate leak to CNN to scare Manafort or keep the ball rolling? Maybe it's just bullshit..it's got three names on the byline and as DonSurber reminds us of Howie Carr's observation--the more names on the byline, the greater the likelihood that its untrue.

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Offline DB

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Re: Exclusive: US government wiretapped former Trump campaign chairman (Manafort)
« Reply #40 on: September 19, 2017, 07:24:02 am »
Maybe it's just bullshit..it's got three names on the byline and as DonSurber reminds us of Howie Carr's observation--the more names on the byline, the greater the likelihood that its untrue.

I've not heard that theory before. What is it based on?

Offline DB

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Re: Exclusive: US government wiretapped former Trump campaign chairman (Manafort)
« Reply #41 on: September 19, 2017, 07:25:05 am »
Maybe check with Comey. He is as honest as they come, according to his reputation, UNTIL THE LAST YEAR.

I don't trust any of them.

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"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

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Offline aligncare

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Re: Exclusive: US government wiretapped former Trump campaign chairman (Manafort)
« Reply #44 on: September 19, 2017, 02:05:14 pm »
Maybe...should be its own thread?      :laugh:

Yeah, we should. I'm looking for a new angel food cake recipe.

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Re: Exclusive: US government wiretapped former Trump campaign chairman (Manafort)
« Reply #45 on: September 19, 2017, 02:06:12 pm »
Yeah, we should. I'm looking for a new angel food cake recipe.

 :laugh:   <<<rimshot>>> 

In all fairness.....there already is a thread on the topic, but it's from CNN, and a 'new' thread would end up being merged.    :seeya:
« Last Edit: September 19, 2017, 02:09:00 pm by DCPatriot »
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Exclusive: US government wiretapped former Trump campaign chairman (Manafort)
« Reply #46 on: September 19, 2017, 02:11:18 pm »
Not really both captured privileged conversations.

The Manafort one was authorized...and Obama/DOJ didn't wiretap Trump legally or illegally.

And besides...Manafort was dirty and the feds were looking at him long before he hopped on the Trump bandwagon.

Quote
The FBI interest in Manafort dates back at least to 2014, partly as an outgrowth of a US investigation of Viktor Yanukovych, the former Ukrainian president whose pro-Russian regime was ousted amid street protests. Yanukovych's Party of Regions was accused of corruption, and Ukrainian authorities claimed he squirreled millions of dollars out of the country.

Investigators have spent years probing any possible role played by Manafort's firm and other US consultants, including the Podesta Group and Mercury LLC, that worked with the former Ukraine regime. The basis for the case hinged on the failure by the US firms to register under the US Foreign Agents Registration Act, a law that the Justice Department only rarely uses to bring charges.

All three firms earlier this year filed retroactive registrations with the Justice Department.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/18/politics/paul-manafort-government-wiretapped-fisa-russians/


He's a dirty tricks guy going back to IIRC the Nixon Presidency.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2017, 02:14:39 pm by txradioguy »
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Offline driftdiver

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Re: Exclusive: US government wiretapped former Trump campaign chairman (Manafort)
« Reply #47 on: September 19, 2017, 02:14:38 pm »
The Manafort one was authorized...and Obama/DOJ didn't wiretap Trump legally or illegally.

And besides...Manafort was dirty and the feds were looking at him long before he hopped on the Trump bandwagon.



He's a dirty tricks guy going back to IIRC the Nixon Presidency.

And Hillary was an angel

The democrats wiretapped the campaign manager of the Republican nominee and President elect.   As Joe Biden would say "its a big effin deal"
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Re: Exclusive: US government wiretapped former Trump campaign chairman (Manafort)
« Reply #48 on: September 19, 2017, 02:17:06 pm »
And Hillary was an angel

The democrats wiretapped the campaign manager of the Republican nominee and President elect.   As Joe Biden would say "its a big effin deal"

The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Exclusive: US government wiretapped former Trump campaign chairman (Manafort)
« Reply #49 on: September 19, 2017, 02:19:32 pm »
And Hillary was an angel

The democrats wiretapped the campaign manager of the Republican nominee and President elect.   As Joe Biden would say "its a big effin deal"

No, this may or may not be relevant to the Trump campaign.  Did Trump know that Manafort was dirty?  If so, I wouldn't think he would have hired someone with such known problems to run his campaign.