I’m a T-Shirt Maker With Gay Customers and Gay Employees. I Still Was Sued.

[roamer_1]

As I have pointed out innumerable times,  the question always devolves down to "who's morality is going to get imposed by the power of the state?"

That is invariably TRUE - But it will always be true. The state will serve one morality or another. There is no moral vacuum, because the moral vacuum is a morality in and of itself.

As I have said many times - Bob Dylan was right: "You Have to Serve Somebody".

[INVAR]

The baker advertises that he makes wedding cakes.   He's in business to make wedding cakes.  The law merely says - fine - stay true to your word.  Don't deny service on the basis of the customer's sexual orientation.

Weddings and marriages are reserved to one man and one woman, anything else is a deviant aberration and a violation of faith, conscience and religion.

We do not recognize same sex "marriage", therefore we refuse to serve anyone asking for a product or service that caters to it.

There is no such thing as a same sex "wedding" that I have to acknowledge or provide my advertised services, anymore than I have to provide design and marketing artwork for Democrats, the Democrat agenda or anything related to Islamic celebrations or Hindu festivals.

We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone at anytime for that reason.

We do not care what you, your advocacy or the government have to say about it.

Wars have been started in this country for far less egregious acts of tyranny.

[Hoodat]

Sigh. 

This has nothing to do with forcing a business to make a product it doesn't want to make.

It has everything to do with forcing a business to make a product it doesn't want to make.

The baker advertises that he makes wedding cakes.   He's in business to make wedding cakes.

And in Colorado, weddings are between one man and one woman.  This is what he is in business for - to make cakes for weddings between one man and one woman.

The law merely says - fine - stay true to your word.  Don't deny service on the basis of the customer's sexual orientation.

Again, he did not deny service based on the customer's sexual orientation.

Again, if a heterosexual couple had come into the shop and ordered a same-sex wedding cake, he would have turned them down.

[RoosGirl]

I say it doesn't have anything to do with morality and that the gov't has no place in forcing any business to serve any individual. 

[Chosen Daughter]

I say it doesn't have anything to do with morality and that the gov't has no place in forcing any business to serve any individual.

And it is that simple.  We reserve the right to refuse service.  Private business.  The government needs to keep out.

Mississippi passed a law in 2016 protecting people who refuse service on the basis or religious conviction.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/04/05/mississippi-governor-signs-law-allowing-business-to-refuse-service-to-gay-people/?utm_term=.e1d7d735e4c7

It is sad that we would even have to pass a law to protect private businesses.  There are gay bakeries and people have tried to get them to bake cakes against homosexuality and they won't.  If you asked a gay bakery to bake a cake stating marriage between one man and one woman they won't.

There are many gay targeted businesses.  Believe me they are going to refuse service to anyone but gays.

[goatprairie]

And it is that simple.  We reserve the right to refuse service.  Private business.  The government needs to keep out.

Mississippi passed a law in 2016 protecting people who refuse service on the basis or religious conviction.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/04/05/mississippi-governor-signs-law-allowing-business-to-refuse-service-to-gay-people/?utm_term=.e1d7d735e4c7

It is sad that we would even have to pass a law to protect private businesses.  There are gay bakeries and people have tried to get them to bake cakes against homosexuality and they won't.  If you asked a gay bakery to bake a cake stating marriage between one man and one woman they won't.

There are many gay targeted businesses.  Believe me they are going to refuse service to anyone but gays.

"Believe me they are going to refuse service to anyone but gays"

I have absolutely no problem with that. 
The thing is no non-homosexual would demand a business that caters strictly to homosexuals make some special item for them, the non-homosexual.
Only fascists demand that businesses make a certain product specially for them. It's no different than going to a bicycle manufacturer and demanding they start making bicycles with five wheels. The principle is the same.

[INVAR]

"Believe me they are going to refuse service to anyone but gays"

Only fascists demand that businesses make a certain product specially for them.

We live at a time where homosexuality is a preferred and protected caste that the government and cultural society has decreed to have pre-eminence over "normal" or "traditional" sexual behavior.

As such - it is illegal, and immoral by the new code of cultural morality Given by the courts to refuse, deny or "discriminate" against homosexual behavior, customs, practices and mindsets.  It is a crime to consider such behavior abominable, aberrant and sinful.  Such thinking or refusals to accommodate are actionable and punishable in this brave new world.

Fiscal ruination, destruction of liberty, and seizure of property will soon be followed by imprisonment, re-education via torture and then death for daring to defy their demands, no matter what requests are made. 

No wonder the Left has embraced it so.

[goatprairie]

We live at a time where homosexuality is a preferred and protected caste that the government and cultural society has decreed to have pre-eminence over "normal" or "traditional" sexual behavior.

As such - it is illegal, and immoral by the new code of cultural morality Given by the courts to refuse, deny or "discriminate" against homosexual behavior, customs, practices and mindsets.  It is a crime to consider such behavior abominable, aberrant and sinful.  Such thinking or refusals to accommodate are actionable and punishable in this brave new world.

Fiscal ruination, destruction of liberty, and seizure of property will soon be followed by imprisonment, re-education via torture and then death for daring to defy their demands, no matter what requests are made. 

No wonder the Left has embraced it so.

We are a long way  from the old days when society was asked to simply tolerate homosexuals without physically harming them.
We did that.
Fifty years later we are asked....nay..... we are being compelled to love homosexuality at the risk of losing our jobs, money,  or even going to prison.

[Jazzhead]

We are a long way  from the old days when society was asked to simply tolerate homosexuals without physically harming them.
We did that.
Fifty years later we are asked....nay..... we are being compelled to love homosexuality at the risk of losing our jobs, money,  or even going to prison.

No, all that's being asked is for folks to tolerate homosexuals.  Not befriend them, not advocate for them.  Certainly not to "celebrate" them if that's not your thing (and just when did that lefty-squishy word enter the conservative vocabulary?)

Toleration means, in the context of business,  not discriminating against them.  That's not so difficult, just leave the damn religion at the door.   If God views them as "abominations",  what business is that of yours?   

[Cyber Liberty]

That's not so difficult, just leave the damn religion at the door.

 

No.   

[RoosGirl]

Yes, leave the damn religion at the door.  No more cakes for such things as:

Holy Matrimony
Baptism
Confirmation
Christmas
Easter

And in that context, providing a homosexual wedding cake is no problem.

 

[goatprairie]

No, all that's being asked is for folks to tolerate homosexuals.  Not befriend them, not advocate for them.  Certainly not to "celebrate" them if that's not your thing (and just when did that lefty-squishy word enter the conservative vocabulary?)

Toleration means, in the context of business,  not discriminating against them.  That's not so difficult, just leave the damn religion at the door.   If God views them as "abominations",  what business is that of yours?

When you lose your business because you refuse to make a certain type of product, you are being discriminated against and persecuted. Remember, you're the person who  thinks Christians are "bigots" because they won't make a certain kind of cake that goes against their morals.

[Jazzhead]

I for one am sick and tired of business owners acting as self-appointed proxies for God.   Just because one believes God is cruel and damns homosexuals to hell doesn't mean they should be denied service when they seek to buy a cake.   

[Jazzhead]

When you lose your business because you refuse to make a certain type of product, you are being discriminated against and persecuted. Remember, you're the person who  thinks Christians are "bigots" because they won't make a certain kind of cake that goes against their morals.

"Persecution"?  Spare me.  You should, I guess, think twice before violating the law.  Stay true to your word.  That way, you stay in business, and your customers are happy.   

[Free Vulcan]

That's not so difficult, just leave the damn religion at the door.

I will when liberals leave their morality and statist religion at the door. I am not a second class citizen.

[Jazzhead]

I will when liberals leave their morality and statist religion at the door. I am not a second class citizen.

No one's asking you to be a second class citizen.  Choose what you want to advertise and sell.  Then stay true to your word.  How does that make you a second class citizen? 

[Sanguine]

I for one am sick and tired of business owners acting as self-appointed proxies for God.   Just because one believes God is cruel and damns homosexuals to hell doesn't mean they should be denied service when they seek to buy a cake.

No, God does NOT damn homosexuals or anyone else.  He forbids certain actions and allows for forgiveness of those actions.  That's a basic tenet of Christianity and Judaism.

[Free Vulcan]

No one's asking you to be a second class citizen.  Choose what you want to advertise and sell.  Then stay true to your word.  How does that make you a second class citizen?

No business does that. What you state does not exist. All businesses reject requests based on their conscience. What is happening is that one group says they have special rights that override everyone else's, that their requests cannot be rejected, while citing the 14th amendment to justify it.

[RoosGirl]

No, God does NOT damn homosexuals or anyone else.  He forbids certain actions and allows for forgiveness of those actions.  That's a basic tenet of Christianity and Judaism.

It must be a joy to live in his world where you have to be perfect.

[Sanguine]

It must be a joy to live in his world where you have to be perfect.

I sure wouldn't know.   ^-^

[INVAR]

No, all that's being asked is for folks to tolerate homosexuals.

We did that already.  Now we are being demanded to violate our faith, consciences and liberty to cater to their perversion. It's being rammed down our throats so we have to watch their deviancy on nearly every entertainment vehicle out there, including comics and cartoons.  So we refuse to watch or read their vehicles and people like you still call us bigots because we refuse to accept that behavior as a good and normal thing.

So now we are being forced to serve it when they demand service to celebrate it.

Because we already did as you asked - to "tolerate" evil.

A little leaven, leavens the entire lump.  That is how wickedness and evil operates.  It infects everything until those who refuse to be leavened, will be FORCED to be leavened.  That is the nature of sin and perversion.  It will not rest until everything is infected and everyone is leavened.

Everything we need to know about that lifestyle and what a wicked society will do to impose that practice upon everyone is found in Genesis 19.

That's not so difficult, just leave the damn religion at the door.

No.  We do not put God in a box and only let Him out on Sundays in government-approved areas only.  That is what tyrants like you demand at best.  We refuse.  We do not 'leave religion at the door' when we engage in conducting our business.  I'm sure you wouldn't like it if Christians left our religion at the door when it comes to giving you your money's worth in quantity and quality of what it is you contract us for.

Our very lives and thoughts are to be molded in the Word of God.  We do not "leave it at the doorstep" in order to serve evil.

  If God views them as "abominations",  what business is that of yours?

It is "our business" the moment deviants ask us to  serve it, acknowledge it, create for it, in our business or daily lives.

We refuse.  I wil not use my business to acknowledge or serve homosexuality and deviancy.  Period.

 

I for one am sick and tired of business owners acting as self-appointed proxies for God.   Just because one believes God is cruel and damns homosexuals to hell doesn't mean they should be denied service when they seek to buy a cake.   

Then they should not patronize our businesses and find another business who will when we tell them we cannot serve their request to participate in serving their deviancy.

But no - you want to punish and force yourselves upon us.

Just like the rapists of Liberty you reveal yourselves to be.

[Hoodat]

No, all that's being asked is for folks to tolerate homosexuals.

Nope.  Not the issue at all.  This is solely about compelling a baker to make something he does not make.  The sexual preference of the customers is irrelevant.  If a homosexual had ordered an opposite-sex wedding cake, the baker would have obliged.  And if a heteeosexual had ordered a same-sex wedding cake, that order would have been refused.  But then you knew that already before offering that false account.

Toleration means, in the context of business,  not discriminating against them.

The customers aren't the issue here.  It's the order.

 That's not so difficult, just leave the damn religion at the door.

Gee, that's mighty intolerant of you, Mr. Bigot.

[Jazzhead]

No, God does NOT damn homosexuals or anyone else.  He forbids certain actions and allows for forgiveness of those actions.  That's a basic tenet of Christianity and Judaism.

Okay, fine.  I have no beef with God.  It's his self-appointed proxies, who think they're serving God by treating their neighbors like garbage,  that I object to.

 

[Sanguine]

Okay, fine.  I have no beef with God.  It's his self-appointed proxies, who think they're serving God by treating their neighbors like garbage,  that I object to.

Good.  No one here was doing that so we should all be fine. 

[Sanguine]

Well, @Jazzhead, we were fine and communicating well until you went back in and modified your original comment.