Author Topic: Ryan Blocking Concealed Carry Reciprocity, Congressman Tells Armed American Radio  (Read 6755 times)

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Online Free Vulcan

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I'm not sure you can separate out permanent residents and visitor though.  Not allowing guns at all, of course I'm against, setting "rules" for carry I am okay with and I'm good with States working things out themselves regarding reciprocity.

It would be a simple matter of ID'ing them at an airport, bus terminal, train station, etc. To me it's a bit of legal gotcha for say Jersey  or any state to require that Texas have their handguns registered there to be legal, if they're just passing thru on a two hour layover and the gun never leaves the suitcase.
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Offline thackney

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@thackney All 50 states accept my drivers license, marriage, recognize the hunter training I had in NYS to grant me a license in any of them. Why should this be any different?

But none of those items are forced by the feds.  If the state chooses to recognize it fine.  But you want the feds to force one state to accept the rules and laws of another state?

If California says you can marry your Donkey, should Texas be forced to call that a legal marriage?

If the feds want to  enforce the 2nd amendment as written, that would be good.  Otherwise, see the 10th amendment.
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Offline thackney

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I'm thinking more of traveling from state to state with a gun. I think there's a balance between the will of the State and that of the FedGov, but on this issue of reciprocity I tend to fall on the Fed side because it is enumerated in the Constitution.

It would be no different than New Jersey telling a Texas resident he doesn't have political protest free speech rights there. If Constitutional rights don't carry state to state then they're null and void. A Texas resident shouldn't be jailed because he took a gun legally thru a Jersey airport where it's illegal, yet he was just passing thru.

Now if he moved there and became a resident, that's a different matter.

I don't see any way that would work.  If you are a resident they could prevent you from having a weapon but if you are from outside, bring it in?
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Offline thackney

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It would be a simple matter of ID'ing them at an airport, bus terminal, train station, etc. To me it's a bit of legal gotcha for say Jersey  or any state to require that Texas have their handguns registered there to be legal, if they're just passing thru on a two hour layover and the gun never leaves the suitcase.

And every road crossing?
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Online Free Vulcan

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I don't see any way that would work.  If you are a resident they could prevent you from having a weapon but if you are from outside, bring it in?

In traveling thru an airport, it would be a simple matter of ID and not leaving the luggage, and having a connecting flight you are waiting for that is out of state. 
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Online Free Vulcan

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And every road crossing?

Same thing. Properly ID'd and cased.
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Offline thackney

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In traveling thru an airport, it would be a simple matter of ID and not leaving the luggage, and having a connecting flight you are waiting for that is out of state.

I may be wrong, but I believe you can check a legal weapon in luggage and travel through connecting flights in another state that has differing rules without every having an issue.  You don't actually get control of the weapon in that intermediate location so there is not issue.
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Offline thackney

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Same thing. Properly ID'd and cased.

While traveling through heavily restricted states, the McClure-Volkmer Act of 1986, an amendment to the Gun Control Act of 1986 gives travelers a “safe passage” through restricted states if guns are unloaded and cased, or locked up, and kept inaccessible with the ammunition stored separately.

http://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/gun-travel-transporting-handgun-united-states/

Some history:
NO SURRENDER--The Firearms Owners Protection Act
https://www.nraila.org/articles/20110125/no-surrender
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 04:36:06 pm by thackney »
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Online Free Vulcan

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I may be wrong, but I believe you can check a legal weapon in luggage and travel through connecting flights in another state that has differing rules without every having an issue.  You don't actually get control of the weapon in that intermediate location so there is not issue.

Not in Jersey or New York. They will arrest you and lock you up.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/10/nyregion/lawful-handguns-departing-for-new-york-but-unlawful-upon-arrival.html
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Online Bigun

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If something like the 2A is legal on a federal level, then you should be able to travel state to state with it.

No different than the right to free speech in the 1A. It applies everywhere.

Quote
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

@Free Vulcan

I think that is pretty damned clear.  State laws that are counter to that are unconstitutional IMHO.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 04:37:46 pm by Bigun »
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Online Free Vulcan

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While traveling through heavily restricted states, the McClure-Volkmer Act of 1986, an amendment to the Gun Control Act of 1986 gives travelers a “safe passage” through restricted states if guns are unloaded and cased, or locked up, and kept inaccessible with the ammunition stored separately.

http://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/gun-travel-transporting-handgun-united-states/

Some history:
NO SURRENDER--The Firearms Owners Protection Act
https://www.nraila.org/articles/20110125/no-surrender

Maybe, but I still wouldn't risk traveling thru those states or cities. They seem to be able to arrest and jail you for it.
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Offline thackney

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Not in Jersey or New York. They will arrest you and lock you up.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/10/nyregion/lawful-handguns-departing-for-new-york-but-unlawful-upon-arrival.html

That is not a pass through, that is the destination.
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Online Cyber Liberty

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But, as you point out, in some states there is no licensing, so not everyone would have gone through training, background checks, proficiency, etc.

So?  I can't find in the Second where those things can be required.  (I'm biased, I live in one of "those states.")
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Online Free Vulcan

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That is not a pass through, that is the destination.

As far as I know they don't discriminate. The TSA may not call the cops till you try to leave, but the state deems you illegal the second you enter their turf passing thru or not.
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Exactly, If the Feds can tell California they have to accept Texas gun laws, they can (and eventually likely will) tell Texas to accept California gun laws.

^^^^^^This.

This is why I don't favor any National Reciprocity law.  Big states like California and New York (and people in Philly who fear people waltzing around with guns) will end up dictating the rules for carrying in all 50 states.  As a resident of AZ I would find that intolerable.
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Offline txradioguy

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Except that (at least some) Republicans respect federalism.   Let each state decide for itself what gun laws it wants, consistent with the Second Amendment.  Sounds conservative to me.

If the states and the Republicans honestly respected Federalism like you claim...they'd respect the wording of the 2nd Amendment and all of this talk of gun laws would be completely unnecessary because the Constitution lays out in very clear language what the rules on firearms are for ALL of the states.

This is not one of those areas that falls under the 9th and 10th Amendments.

Shall not infringe applies to every single state in the Union....no exceptions.
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Offline thackney

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As far as I know they don't discriminate. The TSA may not call the cops till you try to leave, but the state deems you illegal the second you enter their turf passing thru or not.

Read the article you linked.  Every arrest was when they tried to check a weapon they could not have at that location.  It was either their original flight out, or their return flight out.

When you change plans at an airport for an intermediate stop, you don't go through security, you don't get touch your checked bags. 
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Offline txradioguy

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That is not a pass through, that is the destination.

NRA on their website warns that in NY and NJ even if you are passing through...if you have guns in your checked baggage the police have been pulling travelers aside and holding them on the state laws and ignoring the Federal law that is supposed to protect people traveling through the state from the tyranical gun laws imposed in come cities and states.

Quote
Special advisory for New York & New Jersey airports: Despite federal law that protects travelers, authorities at JFK, La Guardia, Newark, and Albany airports have been known to enforce state and local firearm laws against airline travelers who are passing through their jurisdictions.

In some cases, even persons traveling in full compliance with federal law have been arrested or threatened with arrest. FOPA's protections have been substantially narrowed by court decisions in certain parts of the country, particularly in the Northeast. Persons traveling through New York and New Jersey airports may want to consider shipping their firearms to their final destinations rather than bringing them through airports in these jurisdictions.

https://www.nraila.org/articles/20170731/flying-with-firearms-get-the-facts
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 04:52:26 pm by txradioguy »
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Offline thackney

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NRA on their website warns that in NY and NJ even if you are passing through...if you have guns in your checked baggage the police have been pulling travelers aside and holding them on the state laws and ignoring the Federal law that is supposed to protect people traveling through the state from the tyranical gun laws imposed in come cities and states.

https://www.nraila.org/articles/20170731/flying-with-firearms-get-the-facts

Thank you for that information.  Amazed. I guess I should not be.  One more reason to stay as far away as possible from liberal hell holes.


@txradioguy

I read that article, clicked the link for the source article, all the cases were people flying from those locations, not through those location as an intermediate stop.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 04:57:35 pm by thackney »
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Offline txradioguy

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Thank you for that information.  Amazed. I guess I should not be.  One more reason to stay as far away as possible from liberal hell holes.

I stumbled across that a couple weeks ago as I was doing some research for my wife.  She was flying to Idaho ahead of me and her connecting flight to Boise was at Chicago Midway.  She was traveling with her guns and she was afraid that because of the draconian gun laws in Chicago they'd either take them or detain her.  Thankfully there was no problem.  But my jaw hit the floor when I read the NRA's warning about NY and NJ.  Especially since IIRC New York was one of the states that insisted the 2nd Amendment be included in the Bill of Rights as a condition for their delegates ratifying the Constitution.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Offline RoosGirl

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So?  I can't find in the Second where those things can be required.  (I'm biased, I live in one of "those states.")

I don't find it "infringing" for states to put the responsibility of some minimum level of training on the people who want to carry.  Allowing the Fed Gov to set those requirements takes the rights of the States to do so.  There are plenty of states that don't have the exact same language of rules but still have reciprocity with each other.  I say let the States work it out.

Offline txradioguy

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Thank you for that information.  Amazed. I guess I should not be.  One more reason to stay as far away as possible from liberal hell holes.


@txradioguy

I read that article, clicked the link for the source article, all the cases were people flying from those locations, not through those location as an intermediate stop.

I thought it talked about somewhere in there the fact that some people were stopped just passing through New York not originating from the state traveling elsewhere.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline thackney

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I stumbled across that a couple weeks ago as I was doing some research for my wife.  She was flying to Idaho ahead of me and her connecting flight to Boise was at Chicago Midway.  She was traveling with her guns and she was afraid that because of the draconian gun laws in Chicago they'd either take them or detain her.  Thankfully there was no problem.  But my jaw hit the floor when I read the NRA's warning about NY and NJ.  Especially since IIRC New York was one of the states that insisted the 2nd Amendment be included in the Bill of Rights as a condition for their delegates ratifying the Constitution.

I modified my response post.  Those people were flying out of NYC.  They were not only in the airport for a change of planes.
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Offline thackney

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I thought it talked about somewhere in there the fact that some people were stopped just passing through New York not originating from the state traveling elsewhere.

NYC may not have been their total end destination, but it was where their flights started or stopped.
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Online Free Vulcan

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Read the article you linked.  Every arrest was when they tried to check a weapon they could not have at that location.  It was either their original flight out, or their return flight out.

When you change plans at an airport for an intermediate stop, you don't go through security, you don't get touch your checked bags.

Yes, but only because that's TSA rules. In a state like New Jersey or New York you are still illegal. You are not arrested because it is not looked at. But if for any reason things change, then you get smacked. Such as what happened with this guy:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01/18/traveling-mans-gun-arrest-appealed-supreme-court.html

While I don't like states being overridden by the FedGov, I also don't like the states trying to expand their authority to residents of other states with traps and gotchas.

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