Author Topic: Tidal wave of support for Colorado baker hits Supreme Court  (Read 3643 times)

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Offline Oceander

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Re: Tidal wave of support for Colorado baker hits Supreme Court
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2017, 05:11:25 PM »
When you engage in commercial activities you necessarily give up some of the freedoms you enjoy in your private personal life. 

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Tidal wave of support for Colorado baker hits Supreme Court
« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2017, 05:35:04 PM »
When you engage in commercial activities you necessarily give up some of the freedoms you enjoy in your private personal life.
You do indeed. Yet you retain your religious freedom, and the freedom to turn down work, for whatever reason. Maybe you want to go on vacation. Maybe your sister is getting married. Maybe you just don't wanna.
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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Tidal wave of support for Colorado baker hits Supreme Court
« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2017, 06:52:32 PM »
What loss of freedom?  He can choose freely whether to make custom wedding cakes.  All that the community requires is that if he's going to advertise such services, he not discriminate among his customers.  His religious freedom isn't at stake here - just his freedom to discriminate in the conduct of a public accommodation.
This 'community' crap is just being made up.

Sounds like a Hillary Clinton "It Takes A Village" nonsense.

The Constitution of this country and of the various states is not a 'community'.

Liberals try to always spin their way to making up things that have no basis.
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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Tidal wave of support for Colorado baker hits Supreme Court
« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2017, 06:54:43 PM »

Why would you force someone to make an edible celebration of something they found to be an abomination?
I want a cake made out of horseshit. I wonder if who you responded to would make it for me if he ran a bakery?

That's what he's offering anyway.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 06:55:31 PM by IsailedawayfromFR »
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Offline INVAR

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Re: Tidal wave of support for Colorado baker hits Supreme Court
« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2017, 07:08:53 PM »
If they advertise wedding cakes, then they shouldn't discriminate among their customers.

  I will discriminate with prejudice anyone I refuse to serve in my business.  If you think you can empower government to put a gun to my head to force me to labor and celebrate wickedness, that makes you an aberrant tyrant unequalled on these shores since Pilgrims landed here.

« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 11:11:50 AM by mystery-ak »
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Offline Taxcontrol

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Re: Tidal wave of support for Colorado baker hits Supreme Court
« Reply #30 on: September 12, 2017, 07:28:19 PM »
When you engage in commercial activities you necessarily give up some of the freedoms you enjoy in your private personal life.

Please quote the section of the Constitution that authorizes the government to deny freedoms based on commercial activities.


Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Tidal wave of support for Colorado baker hits Supreme Court
« Reply #31 on: September 13, 2017, 11:11:08 AM »
Please quote the section of the Constitution that authorizes the government to deny freedoms based on commercial activities.

The Commerce Clause, empowering the Congress to set rules for the orderly and fair conduct of commerce.  You can't claim "religious freedom" to cheat your customers, or to discriminate against them because of their race, etc.   The community (by its elected representatives) is perfectly able to constrict your "freedom" with respect to commercial activities.   

If you advertise the cake,  and your customer asks for what you advertise to provide,  then just bake it and can the religious crap. 
"He was born poor, he died rich, and never hurt anyone along the way"

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Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: Tidal wave of support for Colorado baker hits Supreme Court
« Reply #32 on: September 13, 2017, 11:15:31 AM »
The Commerce Clause, empowering the Congress to set rules for the orderly and fair conduct of commerce.  You can't claim "religious freedom" to cheat your customers, or to discriminate against them because of their race, etc.   The community (by its elected representatives) is perfectly able to constrict your "freedom" with respect to commercial activities.   

If you advertise the cake,  and your customer asks for what you advertise to provide,  then just bake it and can the religious crap.

But businesses do discriminate all the time on various criteria. So some groups can be discriminated against, some not. How is that not a violation of the 14th amendment?

And 'can the religious crap' is pure unadulerated hypocrisy. You're telling one group that they can get govt approval to call themselves a minority grievance group, and impose their morality and worldview on someone else that doesn't agree with them. So why can't they can their religious crap and quit being a bully?
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 11:52:51 AM by Free Vulcan »
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Offline Taxcontrol

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Re: Tidal wave of support for Colorado baker hits Supreme Court
« Reply #33 on: September 13, 2017, 11:37:21 AM »
The Commerce Clause, empowering the Congress to set rules for the orderly and fair conduct of commerce.  You can't claim "religious freedom" to cheat your customers, or to discriminate against them because of their race, etc.   The community (by its elected representatives) is perfectly able to constrict your "freedom" with respect to commercial activities.   

If you advertise the cake,  and your customer asks for what you advertise to provide,  then just bake it and can the religious crap.

This is where you are in error.  the commerce clause gives Congress the power “to regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes.”  It does NOT giver Congress the power to regulate private transactions between citizens. 

Offline Bigun

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Re: Tidal wave of support for Colorado baker hits Supreme Court
« Reply #34 on: September 13, 2017, 11:40:23 AM »
QFT.
As a business owner, either I have freedom of association, or I am not freely conducting business.
If I don't want to do business with you, and tell you to GTFO my property, for any reason other than breach of contract, there should be *no* recourse.

Even in matters of race, which is the beginning of all of this.
Let the market decide.

If a guy want's to hang a sign saying no XXX and XXX allowed, then so be it.
It is certainly asinine to do so, as another business will certainly rise up to serve those offended, but the point in order is that the businessman necessarily has the right to make his own decisions.
It is an astonishingly bad decision in most cases, but especially, where religious convictions are in focus (debriding the strict language against feds making any law) there is no way a man should be forced to work against his own beliefs.

 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Offline Bigun

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Re: Tidal wave of support for Colorado baker hits Supreme Court
« Reply #35 on: September 13, 2017, 11:49:27 AM »
You do indeed. Yet you retain your religious freedom, and the freedom to turn down work, for whatever reason. Maybe you want to go on vacation. Maybe your sister is getting married. Maybe you just don't wanna.

When I was in business I turned down work all of the time for a variety of reasons chief among them being I could not do all the work people wanted me to do.

Offline Bigun

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Re: Tidal wave of support for Colorado baker hits Supreme Court
« Reply #36 on: September 13, 2017, 11:51:53 AM »
This is where you are in error.  the commerce clause gives Congress the power “to regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes.”  It does NOT giver Congress the power to regulate private transactions between citizens.

 :amen:  Thank you!

Offline RoosGirl

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Re: Tidal wave of support for Colorado baker hits Supreme Court
« Reply #37 on: September 13, 2017, 11:52:52 AM »
I am surprised at the people who believe that the rights of a group supersede the rights of an individual.
Truth has to be repeated constantly, because Error also is being preached all the time, and not just by a few, but by the multitude. In the Press and Encyclopaedias, in Schools and Universities, everywhere Error holds sway, feeling happy and comfortable in the knowledge of having Majority on its side.

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Offline Bigun

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Re: Tidal wave of support for Colorado baker hits Supreme Court
« Reply #38 on: September 13, 2017, 11:54:59 AM »
I am surprised at the people who believe that the rights of a group supersede the rights of an individual.

I'm not at all surprised!  That movement has been at the root of our problems in this country for a LONG time now!

Offline XenaLee

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Re: Tidal wave of support for Colorado baker hits Supreme Court
« Reply #39 on: September 13, 2017, 12:02:00 PM »
When I was in business I turned down work all of the time for a variety of reasons chief among them being I could not do all the work people wanted me to do.

Exactly as you should be able to do with your own business, that you did indeed 'build'. 

Case in point.... in the RV service business and specifically the mobile service business....

there is a certain segment of customers that always seem to try to con, want to scam and often manage to skip out on paying for services rendered.  I believe the correct term would be "gypsies".   Denying them services is a really good business choice.... since it inevitably (usually) results in your business losing money via their dishonesty.  It's not racial.  It's not religious.  It's just a fact of life.
Time for unity in America! (better late than never)


Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Tidal wave of support for Colorado baker hits Supreme Court
« Reply #40 on: September 13, 2017, 12:04:37 PM »
This is where you are in error.  the commerce clause gives Congress the power “to regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes.”  It does NOT giver Congress the power to regulate private transactions between citizens.

"Private transactions between citizens" are not at issue here, but rather commercial transactions, in the stream of interstate commerce.   The Constitution most certainly permits the peoples' elected representatives to pass laws that regulate such commerce, and curb your "freedom" to cheat, lie or discriminate with respect to such dealings. 
"He was born poor, he died rich, and never hurt anyone along the way"

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Offline INVAR

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Re: Tidal wave of support for Colorado baker hits Supreme Court
« Reply #41 on: September 13, 2017, 12:05:33 PM »
The community (by its elected representatives) is perfectly able to constrict your "freedom" with respect to commercial activities.   

If you advertise the cake,  and your customer asks for what you advertise to provide,  then just bake it and can the religious crap.

This is how wars are started.
“Fart for freedom, fart for liberty—and fart proudly.”  - Benjamin Franklin

“If we must have an enemy at the head of Government, let it be one whom we can oppose, and for whom we are not responsible, who will not involve our party in the disgrace of his foolish and bad measures.”  - Alexander Hamilton

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Tidal wave of support for Colorado baker hits Supreme Court
« Reply #42 on: September 13, 2017, 12:06:35 PM »
When I was in business I turned down work all of the time for a variety of reasons chief among them being I could not do all the work people wanted me to do.

That's not unlawful discrimination.  The arbitrary denial of service on the basis of race, sex, etc. is unlawful.   Stick to the topic.  Bake the cake.   
"He was born poor, he died rich, and never hurt anyone along the way"

    Duke Ellington, upon hearing of the death of Louis Armstrong

"Put serious things aside.  Take the gifts of this hour."

 -  Horace

Offline Bigun

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Re: Tidal wave of support for Colorado baker hits Supreme Court
« Reply #43 on: September 13, 2017, 12:08:24 PM »
Exactly as you should be able to do with your own business, that you did indeed 'build'. 

Case in point.... in the RV service business and specifically the mobile service business....

there is a certain segment of customers that always seem to try to con, want to scam and often manage to skip out on paying for services rendered.  I believe the correct term would be "gypsies".   Denying them services is a really good business choice.... since it inevitably (usually) results in your business losing money via their dishonesty.  It's not racial.  It's not religious.  It's just a fact of life.

@XenaLee

The simple FACT is that it is impossible for one to survive on this planet without discriminating!

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Tidal wave of support for Colorado baker hits Supreme Court
« Reply #44 on: September 13, 2017, 12:09:58 PM »
This is how wars are started.

You're right.  More people have died in the name of God than any other reason.   Maybe it's time to wake up and realize the foolishness and destructiveness of man's obsession with religious tribalism.

 
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 12:10:28 PM by Jazzhead »
"He was born poor, he died rich, and never hurt anyone along the way"

    Duke Ellington, upon hearing of the death of Louis Armstrong

"Put serious things aside.  Take the gifts of this hour."

 -  Horace

Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: Tidal wave of support for Colorado baker hits Supreme Court
« Reply #45 on: September 13, 2017, 12:12:28 PM »
That's not unlawful discrimination.  The arbitrary denial of service on the basis of race, sex, etc. is unlawful.   Stick to the topic.  Bake the cake.

Then you are violating the 14th amendment. Either all are the same or what you advocate is a national code of morality and a caste system, with the FedGov playing God and determining the righteous and unrighteous ones. You can't say people can't act on their religious beliefs, then turn around and force your own religion on them.
And a country boy will survive.

Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: Tidal wave of support for Colorado baker hits Supreme Court
« Reply #46 on: September 13, 2017, 12:13:48 PM »
You're right.  More people have died in the name of God than any other reason.   Maybe it's time to wake up and realize the foolishness and destructiveness of man's obsession with religious tribalism.

 

Liberal bullcrap. The greatest deaths from war come from the Far East and have nothing to do with religion.
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Offline XenaLee

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Re: Tidal wave of support for Colorado baker hits Supreme Court
« Reply #47 on: September 13, 2017, 12:15:53 PM »
@XenaLee

The simple FACT is that it is impossible for one to survive on this planet without discriminating!

Of course.  It's a product of using what God gave us.... a brain, discernment and common sense.... none of which liberals and/or 'some' that pretend not to be liberals seem to have....lol.
Time for unity in America! (better late than never)


Offline XenaLee

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Re: Tidal wave of support for Colorado baker hits Supreme Court
« Reply #48 on: September 13, 2017, 12:17:34 PM »
Liberal bullcrap. The greatest deaths from war come from the Far East and have nothing to do with religion.

Not to mention... the millions of deaths that came from communism and communist dictators throughout the world.... who are vehemently anti-Christian, anti-religion and ergo, anti-God.
Time for unity in America! (better late than never)


Offline TomSea

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Re: Tidal wave of support for Colorado baker hits Supreme Court
« Reply #49 on: September 13, 2017, 12:17:43 PM »
You're right.  More people have died in the name of God than any other reason.   Maybe it's time to wake up and realize the foolishness and destructiveness of man's obsession with religious tribalism.

 

Not sure about this; Communism killed at least 100,000,000 in the last century.

Islam has killed millions, Christianity had their crusades alright. Still, it should not be lumped together with Islam.


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