8 Arguments Against Immigration Reform

[rangerrebew]

 8 Arguments Against Immigration Reform


by Tom Head
Updated February 19, 2017

The border between Mexico and the United States has served as a labor route for more than a century, usually to the benefit of both nations. During World War II, for example, the U.S. government specifically funded the Bracero Program in an effort to recruit more Latin American migrant laborers to the United States.

Because having millions of workers paid a sub-minimum wage on the black market isn't an especially fair long-term idea, especially when you introduce the element of random deportations, some policymakers are looking for ways to help undocumented workers legally apply for American citizenship without losing their jobs. But during periods of low or negative economic growth, American citizens often look to undocumented workers as competition for jobs -- and, subsequently, as a threat to the economy. This means that a significant percentage of Americans believe that immigration reform would be wrong because:

https://www.thoughtco.com/arguments-against-immigration-reform-721481

[Jazzhead]

Good article - thanks, RR, for posting.  Succinct and well worth reading.   

Getting stronger border security, and crippling the black market for labor, are worthy goals that can realistically only be obtained through political compromise -  that compromise being a path to legal status for those undocumented aliens already here who have kept their noses clean.

I think that's a bargain well worth taking.   Not only does it address the policy concerns of conservatives, it is morally just.  Our tacit policy has been for decades to lure illegals here with the promise of work,  and employers have leaped at the chance to employ them.   

[Oceander]

Good article - thanks, RR, for posting.  Succinct and well worth reading.   

Getting stronger border security, and crippling the black market for labor, are worthy goals that can realistically only be obtained through political compromise -  that compromise being a path to legal status for those undocumented aliens already here who have kept their noses clean.

I think that's a bargain well worth taking.   Not only does it address the policy concerns of conservatives, it is morally just.  Our tacit policy has been for decades to lure illegals here with the promise of work,  and employers have leaped at the chance to employ them.   

[bigheadfred]

Good article - thanks, RR, for posting.  Succinct and well worth reading.   

Getting stronger border security, and crippling the black market for labor, are worthy goals that can realistically only be obtained through political compromise -  that compromise being a path to legal status for those undocumented aliens already here who have kept their noses clean.

I think that's a bargain well worth taking.   Not only does it address the policy concerns of conservatives, it is morally just.  Our tacit policy has been for decades to lure illegals here with the promise of work,  and employers have leaped at the chance to employ them.

Where do you draw the line?

You say crippling the black market for labor is worthy goal and then say you support it.

Unbelievable.

[Oceander]

Where do you draw the line?

You say crippling the black market for labor is worthy goal and then say you support it.

Unbelievable.

No.  If you legalize those here now with a guest-worker program, and implement a broad-based guest-worker program going forward, then you undercut the black market for labor because someone who is here legally will turn in any employer who tries to pay them less than minimum wage. 

[bigheadfred]

No.  If you legalize those here now with a guest-worker program, and implement a broad-based guest-worker program going forward, then you undercut the black market for labor because someone who is here legally will turn in any employer who tries to pay them less than minimum wage.

There is a problem here. If you consider the minimum wage a livable income then cut off ALL aid programs to those illegals.

[Oceander]

There is a problem here. If you consider the minimum wage a livable income then cut off ALL aid programs to those illegals.

Then you just incentivize the illegal black market for labor paid under the table.  Which is precisely the problem in the first place. 

[bigheadfred]

Then you just incentivize the illegal black market for labor paid under the table.  Which is precisely the problem in the first place.

The problem doesn't exist if you enforce the laws. Send them home. Close the borders.

[Oceander]

The problem doesn't exist if you enforce the laws. Send them home. Close the borders.

That won't happen unless you're willing to live under a modern-day Gestapo or Stasi, with all the invasion of everyone's private affairs that implies. 

So unless you're willing to go that far you have to deal with people in situ.

[bigheadfred]

That won't happen unless you're willing to live under a modern-day Gestapo or Stasi, with all the invasion of everyone's private affairs that implies. 

So unless you're willing to go that far you have to deal with people in situ.

Start with aid programs. Everyone has to reapply. Can't prve you are a citizen? Goodbye.

[Oceander]

Start with aid programs. Everyone has to reapply. Can't prve you are a citizen? Goodbye.

So you simply increase the supply of black market labor.  That's at cross-purposes to what you're trying to achieve.

[jpsb]

That won't happen unless you're willing to live under a modern-day Gestapo or Stasi, with all the invasion of everyone's private affairs that implies. 

So unless you're willing to go that far you have to deal with people in situ.

Bull, I was alive in the 40s, 50s, 60s and 70s laws were enforced and we did not live under a modern day Gestapo. Your arguments have no merit.

[Jazzhead]

Bull, I was alive in the 40s, 50s, 60s and 70s laws were enforced and we did not live under a modern day Gestapo. Your arguments have no merit.

You cannot find, jail and deport 11 million illegals without resorting to Gestapo or Stasi tactics.   You concentrate efforts on the small minority who are felons, and provide a path to normalization for those who've been here for years and kept their noses clean.   

And, like Oceander suggests,  you provide a LAWFUL way for employers to get the labor they need, such as a guest worker program, where folks can come here to work, and later return home without having to bring their families here.   

[Oceander]

Bull, I was alive in the 40s, 50s, 60s and 70s laws were enforced and we did not live under a modern day Gestapo. Your arguments have no merit.

Bull.  There were plenty of illegals around then, too.  In fact, so many that the US actually did have a form of guest-worker program, the bracero program. 

Your consummate refusal to face reality is duly noted. 

[jpsb]

Bull.  There were plenty of illegals around then, too.  In fact, so many that the US actually did have a form of guest-worker program, the bracero program. 

Your consummate refusal to face reality is duly noted.

Workers imported via the bracero program were not ILLEGAL. What part of illegal do you not understand? Here let me help you out.

adjective
Contrary to or forbidden by law, especially criminal law.
‘illegal drugs’

noun
A person living in a country without official authorization.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/illegal

[roamer_1]

You cannot find, jail and deport 11 million illegals without resorting to Gestapo or Stasi tactics.   You concentrate efforts on the small minority who are felons, and provide a path to normalization for those who've been here for years and kept their noses clean.   
 

It isn't 11 million. That is a twenty year old number.

[Oceander]

Workers imported via the bracero program were not ILLEGAL. What part of illegal do you not understand? Here let me help you out.

adjective
Contrary to or forbidden by law, especially criminal law.
‘illegal drugs’

noun
A person living in a country without official authorization.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/illegal

Duh.  The bracero program was put in place to alleviate the pressure for illegal immigration. 

What part of "duh" don't you understand. 

[roamer_1]

That won't happen unless you're willing to live under a modern-day Gestapo or Stasi, with all the invasion of everyone's private affairs that implies. 

So unless you're willing to go that far you have to deal with people in situ.

Wrong. Enforce the dang law.
Illegal aliens should not be eligible for welfare or social security. Take away the benefits and they will self-deport.
Offer 500 bucks and a bus ticket, and send them on their way.

[RoosGirl]

You start laying some heavy penalties on businesses that hire illegals and that might go a long way curbing the black market, along with other remedies.

[Oceander]

Wrong. Enforce the dang law.
Illegal aliens should not be eligible for welfare or social security. Take away the benefits and they will self-deport.
Offer 500 bucks and a bus ticket, and send them on their way.

You want it enforced to 100%, then you need Gestapo/Stasi tactics.  And once you've let them into one part of life, they will inevitably expand into all aspects of life.

That is why enforcement of the existing melange of stupidities will never succeed - the price is simply too high. 

That is why reform is necessary.  And why republicans and conservatives will continue to be on the losing end of the discussion - effectively yielding immigration policy to the left - until they come to grips with this basic reality. 

[Oceander]

You start laying some heavy penalties on businesses that hire illegals and that might go a long way curbing the black market, along with other remedies.

And how do you catch them?  Again, you will end up resorting to Gestapo/Stasi tactics if you simply try to mindlessly enforce what's currently in place. 

[RoosGirl]

And how do you catch them?  Again, you will end up resorting to Gestapo/Stasi tactics if you simply try to mindlessly enforce what's currently in place.

Well heaven forbid we use some common sense enforcement tactics to actually enforce the laws.

[Oceander]

Well heaven forbid we use some common sense enforcement tactics to actually enforce the laws.

Such as.....?

Are you ready for a nation identity card and a law that says you must have it on you at all times, must present it to an LEO upon request, and can be arrested and held until your identity is confirmed if you don't have it on you and don't present it upon request?

Otherwise, how do you spot the illegal Mexican among a group of legal Mexican immigrants and native-born Americans of Mexican ancestry?

[Jazzhead]

It isn't 11 million. That is a twenty year old number.

Undocumented immigrant population remains flat for eighth straight year

The number of undocumented immigrants living in the United States stayed steady for an eighth straight year in 2016 with 11.3 million people, according to a report published Tuesday.

The gradual improvement of the Mexican economy, the federal government's additions to border security and a shift in the demographics of Latin America all contributed to the nearly decade-long freeze in illegal immigration, according to the report by Pew Research Center. There was nearly two decades of growth in immigration throughout the 1990s and 2000s.

[Jazzhead]

More Mexicans leave than enter U.S. in historic shift

For the first time in more than four decades, more Mexican immigrants are returning to their home country than coming to the United States, according to a report released Thursday.

From 2009 to 2014, an estimated 870,000 Mexicans came to the United States while 1 million returned home, a net loss for the United States of 130,000, according to the report from the Pew Research Center. That historic shift comes at a time when immigration has become a contentious focal point in the 2016 presidential race, as Republicans and Democrats argue over how best to modernize the nation's immigration system.

Mark Hugo Lopez, director of Hispanic research at the center, said the net decline in Mexicans was driven by the Great Recession in the United States that made it harder to find jobs, an improving economy in Mexico and tighter border security

Thank President Obama, kiddies.  He screwed up the economy so bad,  Mexicans would rather stay there than come here.