Author Topic: Snark  (Read 17607 times)

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Offline montanajoe

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Snark
« on: August 23, 2017, 04:57:33 am »
This in response to those on this board, that are interested in and practice "snark."

Myst has stated the obvious over and over again..... everyone here is a conservative. She is good at weeding out the trolls and demonstrates daily that all views are tolerated here, not just the view of the owner. Those who spend the majority of their time  in the echo chamber of that other site no doubt find a place such as this both troubling and threatening .....

As I have oft stated I am never trump..because  he does not have a personal moral compass that is in anyway near the traditional Jude-Christian values that I believe in. The values I grew up with, including the willingness to serve this Country's military during Vietnam and our conflicts since, are completely alien to this man. In my view Trump's  past shows a mockery of the values that most of his base at one time professed to believe in...I didn't change they did to repeat a cliche..

I readily admit I cannot see the AT point of view other than a sense of blind anger at the way things are today and an overwhelming emotional attachment to this guy, not based on his policies but from a deep fear that, because I followed him this far without question that should he fail, then I also fail...

Snark is Snark..I get that every idiot argument from the left has to be responded to.... What I don't get is responding to the idiot emotional arguments of the left with equally idiot emotional arguments from the right....At one time Conservatives and Conservative thought was open, free and ground breaking. Today, its my personal belief that due to talk radio, most conservatives and seemingly most trump supporters have bought into the idea they are victims.

I want to commend Myst for a site that is old school, that values Conservative thought over emotion, thank you...

BTW my wife is collecting a herd of cats, if you ever need another gig I think we could work something out..@Myst

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Snark
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2017, 05:02:48 am »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline endicom

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Re: Snark
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2017, 05:18:45 am »
Boojum.

Online mystery-ak

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Re: Snark
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2017, 10:24:09 pm »
Quote
BTW my wife is collecting a herd of cats, if you ever need another gig I think we could work something out..@Myst

@montanajoe ...now if they were bulldogs I would consider it...you can never have enough bullies..lol
« Last Edit: August 23, 2017, 10:25:28 pm by mystery-ak »
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Offline montanajoe

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Re: Snark
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2017, 01:45:39 am »
@montanajoe ...now if they were bulldogs I would consider it...you can never have enough bullies..lol

@mystery-ak

I was thinking of the skills you have honed in keeping this place going with all the different personalizes  :beer: I've often thought it must be like herding cats.

Don't know if I'd equate some of the posters here to bulldogs...they remind me more of...err.......hmmm......cats :whistle:

Online mystery-ak

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Re: Snark
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2017, 01:52:16 am »
@mystery-ak

I was thinking of the skills you have honed in keeping this place going with all the different personalizes  :beer: I've often thought it must be like herding cats.

Don't know if I'd equate some of the posters here to bulldogs...they remind me more of...err.......hmmm......cats :whistle:

LOL  I knew what you were saying. Sometimes I feel like this whole place is falling apart and I have no idea what I am going....I just go by instincts and the best MODs on the internet.

thanks for all the compliments I appreciate it.
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Snark
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2017, 02:50:22 am »
@montanajoe, some of us really needed to hear that.  Thank you.

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Re: Snark
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2017, 02:57:20 am »
@montanajoe, some of us really needed to hear that.  Thank you.

@montanajoe made my day!
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Online corbe

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Re: Snark
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2017, 03:08:33 am »
   @montanajoe Thank You for the clarity.
   It is a great site, made possible by ALL it's members.
   Myst and her crew have assembled quite a diverse, knowledgeable and opinionated group, AND that keeps it very interesting here.
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline INVAR

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Re: Snark
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2017, 03:24:22 am »
@mystery-ak

I was thinking of the skills you have honed in keeping this place going with all the different personalizes   I've often thought it must be like herding cats.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk7yqlTMvp8
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

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Offline LateForLunch

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Re: Snark
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2017, 05:38:20 pm »



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk7yqlTMvp8

Come on. The reason that most self-described conservatives support the Trump administration is to counter-balance the almost monolithic leftist unity which supports their odious, life-destroying agenda.

With all due respect (and that is great) what the noble Invar and other Never Trumpsters may wish to consider is that personal ideological purity is arguably not a legitimate reason to abandon support of a president when viewed in the context of the exigencies of political warfare.

The goal in applied political action is arguably not to attain some state of immaculate grace (though there may be diverse thresholds re the requirements of moral or character issues), the goal is to attain the best governance possible so that things can improve (hopefully permanently).

If we would speak of the proclivities of leftists and fanatical Pro-Trump fetishists to be emotionally self-indulgent, what would we say of self-described conservatives who place the emotional satisfaction in achieving some perceived state of ideological purity (I know, I know, it's an absolute prerequisite necessity in their view) above the value of supporting the effective countering of a malevolent, yea, evil political force with the most expedient weaponry available !?! No similarity whatsoever?

 This fitness-to-be-president issue has clearly been belabored to the point of exhaustion in every venue it has arisen, but since some have spoken on behalf of their DJT-opposed faction, so I claim the entitlement to expound on behalf of my own.

I supported Sen. Cruz (and still do) and would have preferred Pence to Trump, not because I believe that Trump is bad, but because I believe that Pence is better. That being said if wishes were fishes we'd all cast nets.

I'd be willing to bet that 95% of those on this web forum support Trump only because he represents the vanguard of the political movement which is attempting to counter the assault on our nation/world represented by the far leftist who control the democrat party.

We don't do it out of some misplaced personal affection for DJT personally. The tendency of anti-Trumpsters to derisively state that we do is unfortunate. We simply are not prepared to abandon the good in search of the perfect.

The Trump administration accomplishments are fairly impressive, even if his political performance is sub-par and MUST improve if the GOP is to avoid absolute disaster in 2018-2020. The fact that those accomplishments are often ignored, minimized and even derided by self-described conservatives is also highly unfortunate.

Perhaps I misunderstand the necessity for the passionate, unyielding opposition to and condemnation of DJT by those who in the same breath claim absolute conviction that they are "solid conservatives" (indeed, so much so that they feel entitled to condemn others as being unqualified to claim the same).

Yes, it's nicer being on a Forum which does not exercise doctrinaire zotting for merely straying off the reservation as some forums who may go unnamed clearly do.

But I should tell you that I am also a member of several other conservative forums who view zealous, yea passionate opposition to DTJ with very similar dismay and ruefulness with which many here view the "blind adoration" exhibited by many (most) on TOS.

You may disagree but I still believe that the only real differences between the self-described conservative pro-Trump and anti-Trump camps are in approach to achieving identical results, not in whether there is a necessity for specific positive changes. Those who declare that there are major, insurmountable differences which make political alliance impossible (so long as DJT is president) are IMO horribly mistaken.

IOW, bottom line, doctrinaire leftists largely vote as and act collectively in government as a solid bloc. Conservatives who are doctrinaire largely cater to their own cussedness and iconoclastic natures and fragment from the larger movement whenever specific litmus tests (such as flawed character, unforgiveable sins, past affiliations) are failed.

For instance, those self-described conservatives who disapprove of DJT because he is not ideologically pure enough may not realize that this very lack of affiliation with a fixed ideology GAINS Trump significant support from self-described independent voters. In fact, that may well be one of the biggest factors that enabled Trump to defeat Ted Cruz in the primaries - Trump received more support from self-described "moderates" and won contests exactly because he was liked more by self-described moderates.

Isn't victory over the forces of leftism in the field more important that purity, if one ascribes to the same view of the Rules Governing Political Warfare which Machivelli and Alinsky both recognized?
« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 06:05:13 pm by LateForLunch »
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Snark
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2017, 06:05:12 pm »
Quote
Today, its my personal belief that due to talk radio, most conservatives and seemingly most trump supporters have bought into the idea they are victims.

@montanajoe  As a proud and vocal member of the pro-Trump contingency here I just want to tell you that your personal belief, while your Constitutionally-protected right, is incorrect.

No Trump supporter that I know of (and I know plenty ...  ^-^ ) would ever consider him or herself a "victim".  Most, having successfully taken on the GOP establishment, the liberal establishment and the Clinton machine, consider themselves a warrior.

Having said this, I'm still unclear on the point of your thesis.  How are you defining "snark"?  Is there more than one type of snark?  And are you fighting for it or against it?

Thanks.




« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 06:15:55 pm by Right_in_Virginia »

Offline LateForLunch

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Re: Snark
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2017, 06:21:51 pm »
@montanajoe  As a proud and vocal member of the pro-Trump contingency here I just want to tell you that your personal belief, while your Constitutionally-protected right, is incorrect.

No Trump supporter that I know of (and I know plenty ...  ^-^ ) would ever consider him or herself a "victim".  Most, having successfully taken on the GOP establishment, the liberal establishment and the Clinton machine, consider themselves a warrior.

Having said this, I'm still unclear on the point of your thesis.  How are you defining "snark"?  Is there more than one type of snark?  And are you fighting for it or against it?

Thanks.

I went back a reread Invar's post and I think he is saying that he is sick and tired Trump and of many who support Trump dwelling too much on media-bias issues ( their unfairness / mendacity). That probably includes hoping that Trump ends his proclivity to use Twitter to attack those with whom he has significant differences in either policy or else who oppose him because he is not aligned with their ideology.

There is a sentiment expressed that perhaps there are better ways to try to obtain the support of the People than to portray those who oppose him and his agenda as being morally or intellectually inferior (using snark).

I frankly agree with Invar in that sense, but I don't believe it's necessary or good to abandon supporting Trump for that reason. Maybe I misunderstood him in that regard (his post is worded in such a way that I don't claim total clarity).
« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 06:25:02 pm by LateForLunch »
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Snark
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2017, 06:40:05 pm »
I went back a reread Invar's post.../

Thanks, but I wasn't posting about Invar's post.

My questions were and are directed to montanajoe

 :beer: @LateForLunch




« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 06:41:03 pm by Right_in_Virginia »

Offline LateForLunch

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Re: Snark
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2017, 06:44:49 pm »
Thanks, but I wasn't posting about Invar's post.

My questions were and are directed to montanajoe

 :beer: @LateForLunch

Oops. Yeah. Of course. Thanks for the correction. That was my intention also, since he is the originator. Mea culpa.
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Offline aligncare

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Re: Snark
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2017, 07:52:04 pm »
.

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Re: Snark
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2017, 07:58:17 pm »
   @montanajoe Thank You for the clarity.
   It is a great site, made possible by ALL it's members.
   Myst and her crew have assembled quite a diverse, knowledgeable and opinionated group, AND that keeps it very interesting here.

 ****brownnoser

Offline montanajoe

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Re: Snark
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2017, 10:53:46 pm »
In the interests of clarity...

In my view although Trump was elected to the office, he is, for the reasons enumerated in my original past, unfit to hold the office. The idea that he is at the vanguard of some mythical movement fighting for the destiny of the nation would be laughable if it were not so sad.

The problems of this nation are not going to be solved by any political leader, they will be solved/or not, in the hearts and minds of of the average citizen being persuaded by his neighbor that the traditional Conservative values of God, Family and Country are as true today as they where when this great nation was founded. An American president in order to succeed must first and foremost be a moral compass who inspires confidence across all of society and is able to unite the nation in shared common goals. Trump has repeatedly demonstrated he is utterly incapable of exerting any type of moral leadership. In fact, he has shown an astonishingly tin ear the concerns of segments of the nation that are not in his dwindling "base."

Some of his supporters have adopted variations of the talking point that although he has personal "issues" he deserves support because he is on our "team" .... just more of the idiot thinking that last year gave this Nation a choice between the worst two presidential candidates in history. The point seems to be drain the other guys swap but leave mine alone...if folks really want to be on a team then go to a game and over pay for a beer and a hot dog and stop electing idiot politicians over and over again who are there only for their own  ego gratification and financial enrichment.

As to the title -Snark.

It is vaguely directed at the "warriors" whose feelings are hurt when they perceive their 'orange god' has been slighted on a thread and their reaction is to "stir the pot" by attacking the poster for pages and pages instead of the substance of the comment. In my neck of the woods  is the classic behavior of the professional victim.... :shrug:

Course this behavior describes the victim in chief on a nearly daily so I can see the myopia of some....

Online mystery-ak

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Re: Snark
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2017, 10:58:40 pm »
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Re: Snark
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2017, 11:03:20 pm »
...but it works..lol

So.... He's teachers pet. 

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Re: Snark
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2017, 11:06:31 pm »
So.... He's teachers pet.

You could be teacher's pet too if you tried... *****rollingeyes*****
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Re: Snark
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2017, 11:08:49 pm »
You could be teacher's pet too if you tried... *****rollingeyes*****

I clapped erasers after school every day for the Nuns... all I ever got chalk lung! 

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Re: Snark
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2017, 11:16:23 pm »
I clapped erasers after school every day for the Nuns... all I ever got chalk lung!

Those nuns could be slave drivers....ooops....was that racist.../s
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Re: Snark
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2017, 11:19:24 pm »
Those nuns could be slave drivers....ooops....was that racist.../s

I'm Lol'n! 888high58888

Offline INVAR

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Re: Snark
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2017, 11:57:24 pm »
Come on. The reason that most self-described conservatives support the Trump administration is to counter-balance the almost monolithic leftist unity which supports their odious, life-destroying agenda.

The victimhood aspect of Trump supporters was already discussed ad nauseum on a recent thread analyzing the ability of Trump devotees to twist themselves into knots excusing and justifying every faux pas and stupid thing Trump tweets and does.

With all due respect (and that is great) what the noble Invar and other Never Trumpsters may wish to consider is that personal ideological purity is arguably not a legitimate reason to abandon support of a president when viewed in the context of the exigencies of political warfare.

There was no abandonment.  I never supported him to begin with.   He has not won me over to support him. Plus, those few moments I have given him a thumbs up - his rabid supporters were quick to chide and admonish against thumbs thumbs-up - reminding me they do not want any "fair weather friends" or will permit anyone to ride on Trump's coattails of success.

So there is no point even crediting Trump when he serves the Conservative agenda.  He and his supporters will end up insulting us anyway.

The goal in applied political action is arguably not to attain some state of immaculate grace (though there may be diverse thresholds re the requirements of moral or character issues), the goal is to attain the best governance possible so that things can improve (hopefully permanently).

Will never happen within the Republican party.  It is as corrupt and self-serving for the Collectivist cause as the Democrat Party is.  If Conservatism is to survive, it must separate and be independent of the corruption at Mordor on the Potomac.

The tendency of anti-Trumpsters to derisively state that we do is unfortunate. We simply are not prepared to abandon the good in search of the perfect.

You keep quoting that as if it is biblical.  It's not.  It's the folly of men who preach and entice the abandonment of Principles in order to serve the expedient.  A disaster for Liberty.

Those who declare that there are major, insurmountable differences which make political alliance impossible (so long as DJT is president) are IMO horribly mistaken.

You can dress up Liberalism under a big, fat shiny 'R' next to the name and you will only succeed in beguiling those whose way of life is not centered on the principles of Conservatism.   Liberalism demands we abandon those principles for the sake of the 'good'.  That is no longer a bridge of commonality we will stand upon with you.  Hell, we cannot even agree among ourselves what the definition of liberty is - so standing on a common foundation is literally herding cats in this day and time.

We are a people unmoored from our foundations and the solution to fixing it is not to embrace liberalism to grow the share of "R"s in Government as salvation.

For instance, those self-described conservatives who disapprove of DJT because he is not ideologically pure enough may not realize that this very lack of affiliation with a fixed ideology GAINS Trump significant support from self-described independent voters. In fact, that may well be one of the biggest factors that enabled Trump to defeat Ted Cruz in the primaries - Trump received more support from self-described "moderates" and won contests exactly because he was liked more by self-described moderates.

Your herd of liberals pretending to be Conservatives can march you right off the cliff while you sing your anthem of Good is better than Perfect.  I will not be joining you. 

Isn't victory over the forces of leftism in the field more important that purity, if one ascribes to the same view of the Rules Governing Political Warfare which Machivelli and Alinsky both recognized?

Clever, but stupid.  All your party has done is embrace Leftism, sans the militant Marxist wing of it.   All you are doing is demanding Conservatives abandon principles to support Liberalism and Collectivism so your Party can claim a 'win'.

Acquiescing to Liberalism and Collectivism with a big fat R does nothing to advance Conservatism.  All it does is make you a Liberal with an 'R' after your name.

And that is EXACTLY what the Republican party is today.  A Liberal party - rather than the Marxist one.  As I've said, one day soon you will saddle yourselves with a choice between a Lenin and a Stalin, making the same arguments why Conservatives must support Lenin, because the perfect is the enemy of good.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775