Author Topic: The battle of Charlottesville: A continuing discussion thread about the War between the States  (Read 8760 times)

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Online INVAR

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Who/what are the 3 percenters? Never heard of them before.

The name is taken from the historical fact of the Revolutionary war, that only 3% of the existing population took an active role in our Independence.  Many are Militia and a good number are ex-mil.  Not affiliated directly with Oathkeepers, but many Oathkeepers also identify as 3 Percenters.

Usually you can find patches with roman numeral 3 inside the stars of a Betsy Ross flag or the stars and bars.
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Offline HonestJohn

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Trump and his supporters need to denounce these scum loudly and long.  No one can be blamed if repugnant people support them, but they can be blamed if they do not disavow that support.  And we have Trump supporters here trying to defend their actions.

They had many, MANY chances to do so during the 2016 primaries and general election.  (When David Duke endorsed Trump, when the Klan newspaper endorsed Trump, when alt-right leaders robocalled for him with explicitly white nationalist calls, etc, etc, etc).

How many times does he have to not denounce these things... before one understands that he doesn't disapprove of this type of this.

Heck, he's got Bannon at the White House... the guy who made Breitbart 'home of the alt-right' and employed Milo Yiannopoulos.  I mean, for Pete's sake... look at it!
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 06:00:32 AM by HonestJohn »

Offline EC

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They had many, MANY chances to do so during the 2016 primaries and general election.  (When David Duke endorsed Trump, when the Klan newspaper endorsed Trump, when alt-right leaders robocalled for him with explicitly white nationalist calls, etc, etc, etc).

How many times does he have to not denounce these things... before one understands that he doesn't disapprove of this type of this.

First - my opinion is that Trump is about as racist as a lump of limestone. In other words, not in the slightest - he gives damn one about the green, not the colour or religion of hand that's holding it.

At the same time, I can sort of see a reasoning behind being slow to denounce (he DID denounce Duke during the primaries  in the end, just way too slowly) above and beyond the "any publicity is good publicity" mindset he has. The left have their shock troops, their emminently disposable useful idiots. Why shouldn't the right? It's twisted, but it's a possible. Bannon is certainly capable of being that cynical.
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Offline catfish1957

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@catfish1957

So,you suddenly believe the media when they tell you all the white people marching to preserve the Lee statue are Kluxxers and Neo-Nazi's?

Well,HELL,WHY NOT? After all,the leftist media would never lie to manipulate public opinion,would they?

@sneakypete

I am guessing you didn't notice or didn't want to acknowledge the many pics of the idiots in robes at this rally.  I stand 100% behind every post in this thread.  I am a southern preservationist for any reasons (including my tagline), and absolutely detest the Klan and their ilk for hijacking the CBF, and creating the backlash toward icons of southern heritage.

Didn't expect an apology in any case.
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline catfish1957

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@catfish1957 Uh,huh. And YOUR plan to help preserve the south,and by extension America,is to label ever white person that the left and the racists of Black Lives Matter hate and protest against as being Nazi's and Kluxxers?

Whose side did you say you are on,again?


And,other than the media,the college alleged "intellectual" airheads,and the BLM crowd,who we all know would never lie to us,WHO exactly identified all those white marchers as Kluxxers?

They certainly didn't identify THEMSELVES as being Kluxxers or Nazi's.

@sneakypete

Guess those hooded guys were Boy Scouts huh?

Misplaced meltdowns are a "b" aren't they?
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline EC

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@sneakypete

I am guessing you didn't notice or didn't want to acknowledge the many pics of the idiots in robes at this rally.  I stand 100% behind every post in this thread.  I am a southern preservationist for any reasons (including my tagline), and absolutely detest the Klan and their ilk for hijacking the CBF, and creating the backlash toward icons of southern heritage.

Didn't expect an apology in any case.

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Online Rivergirl

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Online Cripplecreek

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They had many, MANY chances to do so during the 2016 primaries and general election.  (When David Duke endorsed Trump, when the Klan newspaper endorsed Trump, when alt-right leaders robocalled for him with explicitly white nationalist calls, etc, etc, etc).

How many times does he have to not denounce these things... before one understands that he doesn't disapprove of this type of this.

Heck, he's got Bannon at the White House... the guy who made Breitbart 'home of the alt-right' and employed Milo Yiannopoulos.  I mean, for Pete's sake... look at it!

David Duke was at the rally yesterday and said he was there in part to support Trump.

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Online edpc

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First - my opinion is that Trump is about as racist as a lump of limestone. In other words, not in the slightest - he gives damn one about the green, not the colour or religion of hand that's holding it.

That was apparent in his association with Don King and defense of Mike Tyson.

Online mountaineer

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FWIW, via Facebook:
Quote
Rita Chalfant
8 mins ·

Someone that was there: outa orda.

"OK, I'm sure you've all been watching the news about Charlottesville. Here is MY account. Keep in mind, I'm ONE person with two eyes so my view/scope is limited.

Before I go on - this was NOT meant to be a white power rally. I NEVER would have gone. And even though white supremacy groups were (sadly) present, it was as much an anarchist/Antifa event as it was a white supremacist group. Both groups were EQUALLY problematic, so when you hear the news that this was a white nationalist nightmare - that is only HALF the story. And that is really the only half that the lying media wants you to know.

Anyway... I arrived at the rally about 7:30am. I came with no picket signs, was not carrying a flag, and wore neutral, unidentifiable clothing. Throughout the event, I did not chant or even speak much.

It was not scheduled to start until noon. I parked at a distance, and took a taxi to about a block of the event. I then walked past another park, where BLM was already there because I heard loud chanting of "No Justice, No Peace". There were Antifa milling about here and there around that second park.

The 'right' group had a permit for Emancipation Park, and that is where most of this had occurred. I was one of the first few people inside the park. There might have been about 10 people inside, and about the same out on the street. The numbers quickly grew. The first 'group' that I saw come in was a militia group, armed to the kilt with automatic rifles, hip pistols, etc. The were escorted in by police. They were not associated with any group that I could tell. They assembled themselves along the side walk facing the street around the park. They did not interact with anyone. What happened to them as the day went on, I have no idea because the crowd grew so unruly.

There were many racist white groups inside the park eventually. Not everyone belonged to those groups, but they organized mostly by different groups. The way that the police had the park set up was ALMOST sufficient for safety. The park was divided in two sections, with a metal barrier 'buffer zone' going down the middle and in front of the half where the groups were all congregated. I stayed on the other side until the last few minutes before the state of emergency was called. Seeing the racist groups, I didn't want to be associated with them. But of course, that doesn't matter to the Antifa group since to them, we are all racist. I met a very nice woman who was there with her husband and 16 year old son. She knew the person who planned the event, and she voiced to me that she didn't like the hate groups who were pleasant, so we both stayed on the other side. Of course, this side was open to anyone and everyone coming in.

Two white BLM ignorant bitches paraded back and forth in front of me and this woman, very loudly chanting, and then one took out a cow bell and proceeded to look at us directly and continue clanging it directly beside our ears. We each asked them to stop. When she didn't, I grab it and pushed it away from her. In a WELL COORDINATED response, she began yelling at the top of her lungs "assault! assault! assault" until some of her cronnies came over with cameras and took my picture for their little Antifa photo album I guess.

There were two watch groups present. The first were the ACLU watchers, and the other was some lawyer guild watchers. The ladies with the cow bell went over to the ACLU and was complaining about my injuring her. The ACLU told her to report it to the police. She walked over to the police, and started complaining that I scratched her (I don't even have fingernails!). The cop said "I saw it all and it never happened". The BLM honey stomped off in defeat. I never saw them again.

By this time, a large group of clergy assembled directly facing the park, singing loudly 'this little light of mine', praying loudly. Another group started singing Christian songs actually in the park.

So by now, the street in front of the park began to fill with mostly Antifa. Chants from their side got the nationalists started, and their chant was "You will not replace us".

Now, three very lovely ladies approached the bench that I was standing on. As one got closer, she vomitted at my feet, and then took a step and vomitted again. I offered her water, and a clean rag and a mint. Her shirt had splatter marks on her. The vomitting lady told me 'they', pointing to our crowd, had thrown URINE on her. As we stood there talking, the other lady said it hit her too, but she thought it came from the Antifa group in the street. As we talked, we saw another bottle of urine get hurled from the street into the park, so it was indeed Antifa throwing urine.

The next thing that I remember seeing were bottles being tossed from the street into the side of the park that I was in. Immediately after that, the air began to sting my eyes - Antifa was now throwing tear gas canisters into the crowd. The nationalist group, by now, in small groups, was exiting the side of the park they were on, and marching down the street to my side of the park, and then back. During this time, I saw many on our side coming back from the street after being hit with pepper spray, and what they were calling 'bear spray'. I could see down into the street, and there were fights happening.

As more and more gas cans landed on my side of the park, I moved close to the police area, right up against the barricade. I had to cover my face because the air was so thick with the gas burning my lungs and eyes. With a can landing close by the police, I heard them say, they are throwing gas cans (I really don't think they were aware until now), let's go! So the police left their buffer area. I did not see them move into the street to stop Antifa who were doing all of the chemical attacks.

Then the barriers between the sections of the park went down, and the police formed a line behind us, and started telling us that this was now an unlawful assembly, and started moving the group toward the front of the park, towards the street, where Antifa was waiting. We tried telling them that we were not safe with what they were doing, but still they continued to threaten us with arrest and continued pushing us out into the Antifa crowd.

In the meantime, I started seeing many of the nationalist group and others on the right coming in with their eyes and faces covered with pepper spray. I had made a medical bag, just in case, and began treating them as best I could. In all, I treated about a dozen men and one woman who had been hit with pepper spray directly to the face. In addition, several men had gaping wounds to their heads. I cleaned some of those, and gave rags to stop the bleeding. One I heard had gone to the hospital for treatment.

I was doing all of this at the same time I was inching forward into the Antifa crowd because the police were still pushing. Finally, they gave us another way that let us onto the street just in front of the Antifa line. I heard these right groups say they were moving to another park. As I tried to move with them to be safe (as I said, I was alone so didn't want to move through the violent Antifa crowd on my own), I got pulled away by a news crew to do an interview.

As I spoke to them, a gas canister hit my foot. I kicked it back in the direction that it came. In the 3 or 4 minutes that I spoke to the reporter, the 'right' group had disappeared. I walked in the direction that I thought they were in, but couldn't find them. I walked into another near by park, and noticed it was full of Antifa, so I quickly turned around and asked a security guard for directions.

I ended up somehow back at emancipation park, where the police were standing, and Antifa was STILL there, holding a full blown rally in the park where WE had the permit, and the police showed absolutely NO sign of making THEM leave like they tried to make our side leave. Oddly enough, I think I may just look like Antifa with my dreadlocks, and I stayed safe. I think if I didn't have my locks, I'd probably have been beaten since I was alone. I saw NO other members of the 'right' still at Emancipation Park.

As an after thought, IF the driver of the car that hit and killed the bystanders turns out to be Antifa, I wouldn't be surprised because the Nationalists, by this time, were all dispersed a few miles away at another park. We'll see.

Eventually, I caught up with the stragglers from the 'right' group. I met a very nice older gentleman who was having trouble keeping up with the distance and the heat as I was. This guy, and his nephew, later were the ones to give me a ride to my car, which was God-knows-where on the other side of town. Together, we headed for McIntyre park, but by the time that we reached there, we were told that police turned the 'right' group away.

We hung out on a busy corner for about 20 minutes, people from the 'right' coming and going. Most said they were leaving Charlottesville. I watched as a large group of white power people packed up and left together.

As we were there, many cars drove by calling us names. My back was turned, by the older gentleman that I had met told me that someone spit at my back but missed as they drove by.

So I want to make one thing perfectly clear: The police did a pretty good job PLANNING to keep people separated, but did not account for group mobility between and around the parks.

BLM and Antifa groups did NOT start out at Emancipation Park. They came TO US. They could have peacefully protested in a different park, and we all could have been safe.... I'm not even sure that they had a permit to be at Emancipation Park. They should have been stopped at some perimeter around the park.

The other point, I already made, but WHY was the group that had the permit forced to leave and the antagonist group allowed to stay at Emancipation Park?"
I do not know this poster and cannot vouch for her veracity. Just posting this for informational purposes.
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Offline HonestJohn

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@sneakypete

I am guessing you didn't notice or didn't want to acknowledge the many pics of the idiots in robes at this rally.  I stand 100% behind every post in this thread.  I am a southern preservationist for any reasons (including my tagline), and absolutely detest the Klan and their ilk for hijacking the CBF, and creating the backlash toward icons of southern heritage.

Didn't expect an apology in any case.

I don't know why Southern preservationists only seem to focus in on the Civil War.

A rebellion against the US and its Constitution.

Offline TomSea

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FWIW, via Facebook:I do not know this poster and cannot vouch for her veracity. Just posting this for informational purposes.

This report is somewhat similar to one where I heard a local female reporter go to a rally to cover an event, a different event, not yesterday's; and though a "neutral reporter", basically got harassed by the antifas, she wanted to leave as soon as possible. Her car being parked in a Sear's parking lot, she thought if she didn't leave, her car was going to get rocks thrown at it.

For the record, ACLU Virginia; one can read their tweets and yes, their observers were there.
https://twitter.com/ACLUVA
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 08:11:41 AM by TomSea »

Online bigheadfred

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FWIW, via Facebook:I do not know this poster and cannot vouch for her veracity. Just posting this for informational purposes.

I saw something similar on twitter.

Whoever let the blm/antifa crowd do their part should be charged with inciting a riot and blamed for the violence and deaths.

Such utter BS, IMO.

All the polly's are gonna be crying for Trump to denounce the "white supremacists" for this. All those polly's, including the rubio and cruz need to be slapped down. They are total POS.

Online mountaineer

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Also making the rounds is a video about 27 minutes long posted on Facebook by members of a patriot group who were in Charlottesville during the violent events. I didn't watch the entire thing. Again, I nothing about these guys and do not vouch for their veracity, nor do I endorse the profanity.  :nometalk:
https://www.facebook.com/joshgemmipatriotmedia/videos/335928490197751/
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Online Cripplecreek

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That was apparent in his association with Don King and defense of Mike Tyson.

Unfortunately not caring where his money and support comes from only encourages them. The statement from the Daily Stormer clearly states that Trump didn't name them so Trump still supports them.

Look at Klan Republic, they're saying it was a George Soros false flag operation even as one poster sits there among them complaining that the alt right neonazis haven't been aggressive enough and haven't busted enough jaws.

When I was 14 or 15 years old an elderly German man spoke at the men's club breakfast at our church. He says he didn't support the nazis but ended up just as guilty because he chose to look away rather than oppose them when he had a chance. He laid out the same arguments I'm seeing here. "The nazis aren't with us so we don't need to denounce them or defend ourselves". "The communists are just as bad, why isn't anyone doing something about them". In the end, nazi crimes were ignored as countless communists were charged on ridiculously trumped up charges but by then, no one had the courage to speak. He said it was not widely believed that the communists started the reichstag fire but it was well known that attracting the attention of the nazis was bad.

Nothing should make a man happier than knowing his government couldn't care less about him.
I'd rather lose defending the constitution than win at its expense.
Hitlers are born and die every day without notice. Its the morons who put them in power that are dangerous.
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Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Didn't Trump get a higher percentage of the black vote than either Romney or McCain?

Online aligncare

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I saw something similar on twitter.

Whoever let the blm/antifa crowd do their part should be charged with inciting a riot and blamed for the violence and deaths.

Such utter BS, IMO.

All the polly's are gonna be crying for Trump to denounce the "white supremacists" for this. All those polly's, including the rubio and cruz need to be slapped down. They are total POS.

Remember how the left shut down Trump's Chicago rally? And, all the other candidates quickly came out from under their rocks to denounce the hate and violence of Trump supporters! not the leftist BLM/ soros protesters?! I was most disappointed to see Cruz among the GOP candidates who were deeply concerned about Trump's behavior inciting his supporters to violence.
NeverTrumpers are trying to deny you YOUR voice, YOUR presidential choice.

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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I don't know why Southern preservationists only seem to focus in on the Civil War.

A rebellion against the US and its Constitution.
Exactly what is a "Southern preservationist" anyway?  Someone proud of their heritage perhaps?

And you really need to read up on your history a bit more.  There was no 'Civil War' in this country.

Call it a War Between the States or a War Against Union Aggression if you like, but there was never a war to overthrow the government of this country, which is a Civil War.
Yearning to stay free takes place in many ways at many different times, whether by withstanding planes or bayonets

Online bigheadfred

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Remember how the left shut down Trump's Chicago rally? And, all the other candidates quickly came out from under their rocks to denounce the hate and violence of Trump supporters! not the leftist BLM/ soros protesters?! I was most disappointed to see Cruz among the GOP candidates who were deeply concerned about Trump's behavior inciting his supporters to violence.

I think the statement Trump made, denouncing both sides, was the correct response.  The statements being made by the pollys like rubio and cruz, are not.

Offline jpsb

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I think what jp is saying, and I happen to agree, is that NT as a movement (which has its origins in the political right) is a destructive force to positive change. It's standing in the way of stopping the left's relentless march forward. It gives them aid and comfort.

As an example of what the progressives are trying to stop, Pres. Trump reversed 860 burdensome business regulations which is just one part of his conservative, constitutional agenda. His goal is to bring federal regulatory excesses to a screeching halt. The left would like nothing more than to stop this president's agenda by fomenting unrest against him by any means necessary. NeverTrump gives them cover to make the claim that the country as a whole hates Trump, both the left and the right.

So, those of us who see Trump's agenda as an opportunity to tame the federal Leviathan sometimes have trouble distinguishing between the aims of leftists and those of NeverTrumpers.

Exactly correct and thank you for taking the time to explain. I've just about given up trying to explain things here.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 09:04:15 AM by jpsb »

Offline don-o

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FWIW, via Facebook:I do not know this poster and cannot vouch for her veracity. Just posting this for informational purposes.

That account lines up with what I read from eyewitnesses in the park. At first I was troubled at how the cops performed. BUT, the blame for all of this falls on the Mayor or Governor, whoever ordered the ending of the permitted rally, and then allowed the antifa et al to illegally march in the street. 

Offline Blizzardnh

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Romans 7

Online aligncare

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Exactly correct and thank you for taking the time to explain. I've just about given up trying to explain things here.

You're welcome.

Yes, you are so right. There's so much being said here by Trump critics that just isn't so. I read someone's post and just gotta throw up my hands. What's the point of engaging? I can't spend my days arguing with people willfully ignoring the facts and in a constant state of high dudgeon.
NeverTrumpers are trying to deny you YOUR voice, YOUR presidential choice.

Offline goatprairie

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Exactly what is a "Southern preservationist" anyway?  Someone proud of their heritage perhaps?

And you really need to read up on your history a bit more.  There was no 'Civil War' in this country.

Call it a War Between the States or a War Against Union Aggression if you like, but there was never a war to overthrow the government of this country, which is a Civil War.
"but there was never a war to overthrow the government of this country"
Well, actually, if you declare yourselves to an independent country and fire upon the soldiers of the country which had been your country, you have effectively overthrown that previous government.

Offline Sanguine

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FWIW, via Facebook:I do not know this poster and cannot vouch for her veracity. Just posting this for informational purposes.

Interesting.  I sure wish she had said what she thought she was going to.  What was it she was attending and why?  Who had the permit?
Now is the time to "hold his feet to the fire".

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