Author Topic: Cold snap makes lizards evolve in just a few months  (Read 1897 times)

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rangerrebew

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Cold snap makes lizards evolve in just a few months
« on: August 06, 2017, 01:17:33 pm »

Cold snap makes lizards evolve in just a few months

By Elizabeth PennisiAug. 3, 2017 , 2:00 PM

We may complain about freezing temperatures, but most cold snaps leave us little worse for the wear. That’s not the case for a common lizard living on the Texas-Mexico border, which, in just the span of a few months, underwent a dramatic genetic transformation in response to cold weather. In fact—in one of the most detailed examples of rapid evolution to date—a new study shows that just one cold snap can change the way green anoles’ muscular and nervous systems respond to temperature.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/08/cold-snap-makes-lizards-evolve-just-few-months

Offline driftdiver

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Re: Cold snap makes lizards evolve in just a few months
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2017, 03:07:38 pm »
Evolve?  In a period of months without multiple generations?
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Offline bigheadfred

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Re: Cold snap makes lizards evolve in just a few months
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2017, 03:20:01 pm »
Evolve?  In a period of months without multiple generations?

It isn't evolution.

It is adaptation through gene expression.

Always that push for Darwinian theory.

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Offline bolobaby

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Re: Cold snap makes lizards evolve in just a few months
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2017, 03:44:01 pm »
Evolve?  In a period of months without multiple generations?

It's called epigenetics, and it's not actually evolution.
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Cold snap makes lizards evolve in just a few months
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2017, 03:50:30 pm »
It's called epigenetics, and it's not actually evolution.

Yep.

Offline bigheadfred

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Re: Cold snap makes lizards evolve in just a few months
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2017, 03:51:48 pm »
Dr. Bruce Lipton.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline 240B

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Re: Cold snap makes lizards evolve in just a few months
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2017, 04:00:01 pm »
Scientists Amazed! It turns out that animals react to changing environmental conditions. Amazing! Go figure.
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If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Cold snap makes lizards evolve in just a few months
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2017, 04:20:02 pm »
Call it evolution, adaptation, epigenetics, or chicken salad.

It is being studied in hopes of better understanding CHANGE mechanisms in cells/genes/chromosomes.

And hopefully providing life saving/improving treatments for people.

If there is a mechanism which makes the lizard change, and over generations those lizards that do not change die off, it seems a lot like natural selection, akin to Darwin's theories.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics
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Offline the_doc

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Re: Cold snap makes lizards evolve in just a few months
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2017, 12:50:29 am »
Yep.

Yep again.  We are surrounded by liars, including rock-stupid journalists.  When I was a kid, Biston betularia was cited as absolute proof of Darwinian evolution.  It is nothing of the sort.  The death of light-colored moths in Pennsylvania obviously does not even offer any tangential support for the theory of evolution.  (Nowadays, everyone recognizes this--but I will bet that you can still find the stupid story of the pepper moth in some of today's weirdly lousy high school textbooks as one of the great discoveries by evolutionary scientists.)

I have been tracking this sort of scientific stupidity for almost forty years now.  (Hey, that's even longer than I have scoffed at AGW--and I actually scoffed at AGW as soon as I heard their theory.) 

Offline 240B

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Re: Cold snap makes lizards evolve in just a few months
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2017, 01:10:42 am »
I am a lizard myself.


I spent a couple of years around the arctic circle. It was crazy. In the winter the sun would simply skirt the horizon maybe noon to 2pm, for a couple of hours. Every thing else was night. In the summer it was daylight until 11pm. And it was seriously cold all the time.



I came back to Virginia for a minute, just for vacation. I was driving around with the windows down. I noticed that everyone else had their window rolled up. I thought, well, it may be a little warm, but not enough for the air conditioner?


I found out later that they had their heaters on. It was 50 degrees.


I was the lizard. If it is 60 degrees outside, it is time to hit the beach.
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists.

Oceander

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Re: Cold snap makes lizards evolve in just a few months
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2017, 10:27:17 am »
Now all we need are a few flat-earthers, 'cause we got the creationist whackadoodles. 

Offline driftdiver

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Re: Cold snap makes lizards evolve in just a few months
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2017, 10:39:32 am »
Now all we need are a few flat-earthers, 'cause we got the creationist whackadoodles.

More hate from you.  Shocking
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Offline Mom MD

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Re: Cold snap makes lizards evolve in just a few months
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2017, 11:12:04 am »
Evolve?  In a period of months without multiple generations?

and to a completely new species?  There is a difference between adaptation and evolution.
God is still in control

Offline Mom MD

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Re: Cold snap makes lizards evolve in just a few months
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2017, 11:13:38 am »
Now all we need are a few flat-earthers, 'cause we got the creationist whackadoodles.


Proud whackadoodle here.  Got any more good names I can put on my nametag? 
God is still in control

Offline the_doc

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Re: Cold snap makes lizards evolve in just a few months
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2017, 05:36:43 pm »
@Oceander
@Mom MD
@Sanguine
@rangerrebew 
Call it evolution, adaptation, epigenetics, or chicken salad.....

....If there is a mechanism which makes the lizard change, and over generations those lizards that do not change die off, it seems a lot like natural selection, akin to Darwin's theories.


No one in the overall debate denies adaptation.  No one denies natural selection.  But epigenetics has nothing whatsoever to do with the Darwinian model.  Epigenetics is actually a Lamarckian idea, not a Darwinian idea.  (I have been interested in epigenetics for longer than it has been recognized as a worthy area of scientific investigation.) 

I side with @Mom MD, by the way.  She obviously knows more about the topic than most TBR posters and lurkers do.  She is persuaded, as I am, that the theory of evolution is at best sloppy science trying to rule out a Creator.  Evolutionists presuppose that their theory is true and then build a seemingly impressive house of cards that reassures them in their intellectual prejudices.  (In my opinion, even theistic evolutionists are almost hopefully confused by the "findings" the atheists toss around with hand-waving and much screaming and ad hominem mockery of creationists.  My theistic evolutionist friends ought to take notice of the scientifically unsupportable insinuations the evolutionists continually make--as seen, for example, in the very title of this thread.)

This is why I have likened the TOE to AGW.  It is demonstrably rife with fraud.  "Scientific consensus" is not "proof of proof" in real science.  It cannot "settle" the science.  We should be no more reassured by "scientific consensus" than the small but growing cult of flat-earthers reassure themselves by their own cult of consensus. 



Offline dfwgator

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Re: Cold snap makes lizards evolve in just a few months
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2017, 05:40:11 pm »
"I am the Lizard King....I can do anything."

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Cold snap makes lizards evolve in just a few months
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2017, 05:58:59 pm »
@Oceander
@Mom MD
@Sanguine
@rangerrebew 
No one in the overall debate denies adaptation.  No one denies natural selection.  But epigenetics has nothing whatsoever to do with the Darwinian model.  Epigenetics is actually a Lamarckian idea, not a Darwinian idea.  (I have been interested in epigenetics for longer than it has been recognized as a worthy area of scientific investigation.) 

I side with @Mom MD, by the way.  She obviously knows more about the topic than most TBR posters and lurkers do.  She is persuaded, as I am, that the theory of evolution is at best sloppy science trying to rule out a Creator.  Evolutionists presuppose that their theory is true and then build a seemingly impressive house of cards that reassures them in their intellectual prejudices.  (In my opinion, even theistic evolutionists are almost hopefully confused by the "findings" the atheists toss around with hand-waving and much screaming and ad hominem mockery of creationists.  My theistic evolutionist friends ought to take notice of the scientifically unsupportable insinuations the evolutionists continually make--as seen, for example, in the very title of this thread.)

This is why I have likened the TOE to AGW.  It is demonstrably rife with fraud.  "Scientific consensus" is not "proof of proof" in real science.  It cannot "settle" the science.  We should be no more reassured by "scientific consensus" than the small but growing cult of flat-earthers reassure themselves by their own cult of consensus.

Let me get this straight. You say Evolution has no science-whatsoever.

What science is there for Creation of a man, 6,000 years ago, spontaneously in a day?

*My God is big enough, to have used some form of evolution. My Faith is He expects me to use my mind.
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Offline GourmetDan

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Re: Cold snap makes lizards evolve in just a few months
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2017, 06:11:19 pm »
Let me get this straight. You say Evolution has no science-whatsoever.

What science is there for Creation of a man, 6,000 years ago, spontaneously in a day?

Philosophical naturalism drives evolution, not science...

Answering the question of origins is not something science can do... that is a philosophical question... not a scientific one.
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Offline aligncare

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Re: Cold snap makes lizards evolve in just a few months
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2017, 06:47:37 pm »
Quote
...the theory of evolution is at best sloppy science trying to rule out a Creator.

Don't be silly, no one trying to answer the question of how we came to be, is doing it to disprove the God concept. It's simply part of man's innate quest for knowledge, his hope to understand the diversity and nature of life on earth. But, true, the two POVs are irrevocably intertwined, so people argue.

As for me, two points. I've seen nothing to date to blow any holes in evolutionary science, and...the more I study biology and cosmology – His creation – the more I see the face (oops, hand) of God.

« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 06:56:14 pm by aligncare »

Offline dfwgator

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Re: Cold snap makes lizards evolve in just a few months
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2017, 06:50:48 pm »
Science is Man's attempt to figure out how God works.

Offline GourmetDan

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Re: Cold snap makes lizards evolve in just a few months
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2017, 06:51:18 pm »
As for me, two points. I've seen nothing to date to blow any holes in evolutionary science, and...the more I study biology and cosmology – His creation – the more I see the face of God.

If the discovery of a coded, fault-tolerant, error-correcting information database more complex than anything man has created (aka evidence) didn't falsify evolution, absolutely nothing will.
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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Cold snap makes lizards evolve in just a few months
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2017, 07:03:09 pm »
Science is Man's attempt to figure out how God works.

Yes, and I believe Equipped us and expected us to do so.
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Offline GourmetDan

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Re: Cold snap makes lizards evolve in just a few months
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2017, 07:05:27 pm »
Science is Man's attempt to figure out how God works.

Actually, science is philosophical naturalism... which assumes no God is necessary 'a priori'...
"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

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Oceander

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Re: Cold snap makes lizards evolve in just a few months
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2017, 09:17:58 pm »
Don't be silly, no one trying to answer the question of how we came to be, is doing it to disprove the God concept. It's simply part of man's innate quest for knowledge, his hope to understand the diversity and nature of life on earth. But, true, the two POVs are irrevocably intertwined, so people argue.

As for me, two points. I've seen nothing to date to blow any holes in evolutionary science, and...the more I study biology and cosmology – His creation – the more I see the face (oops, hand) of God.



Exactly!!!


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