Throwaway culture: The truth about recycling

[rangerrebew]

Feature

19 July 2017
Throwaway culture: The truth about recycling

 

By Bob Holmes

Which materials are worth recycling?

From the most basic environmental point of view, all materials are worth recycling, because this reduces the need for energy-intensive mining and smelting of virgin materials. That makes a huge difference for some things – notably aluminium – but even recycling glass leads to a small energy saving and consequent reduction in greenhouse gas emissions. Recycling can also provide a reliable, non-imported source of scarce resources such as the rare earth metals that are crucial parts of touchscreens and other high-tech devices.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg23531352-000-throwaway-culture-the-truth-about-recycling/

[Suppressed]

I note that many of the people claiming that economics shouldn't matter in keeping industry here, because of national defense, don't seem to mind making us dependent on China or others for rare earths, etc.

[Cripplecreek]

I note that many of the people claiming that economics shouldn't matter in keeping industry here, because of national defense, don't seem to mind making us dependent on China or others for rare earths, etc.

They're the same people who scream recycling is a waste without bothering to put any thought into the comment. The reality is that it all depends on what is being recycled how. Glass and metal are almost always good materials for recycling while plastic and paper are a mixed bag usually better for "down recycling" into lesser products.

Most metals appear to be cheaper to recycle than to mine and refine. There will always be some loss so there will always be a need for new mined material.

[Suppressed]

They're the same people who scream recycling is a waste without bothering to put any thought into the comment. The reality is that it all depends on what is being recycled how. Glass and metal are almost always good materials for recycling while plastic and paper are a mixed bag usually better for "down recycling" into lesser products.

Most metals appear to be cheaper to recycle than to mine and refine. There will always be some loss so there will always be a need for new mined material.

 

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

They're the same people who scream recycling is a waste without bothering to put any thought into the comment. The reality is that it all depends on what is being recycled how. Glass and metal are almost always good materials for recycling while plastic and paper are a mixed bag usually better for "down recycling" into lesser products.

Most metals appear to be cheaper to recycle than to mine and refine. There will always be some loss so there will always be a need for new mined material.

Recycling is nearly totally unnecessary IMO. The market could handle it.

If it was truly an in demand product, then you'd be motivated to recycle to get the money. A lot of "free market" recycling happens already.

I have a ton of doubt about how wasteful government recycling programs are.

That being said, I don't think the deposit program is that bad.

[dfwgator]

The Recycling Drives during WWII were mostly for morale purposes to make people feel involved in the War effort, even though very little of the scrap was actually used.

[truth_seeker]

The Recycling Drives during WWII were mostly for morale purposes to make people feel involved in the War effort, even though very little of the scrap was actually used.

I have never heard of recycling during WWII, but I have heard of rationing.

Gasoline and tires were rationed, so more could be deployed to the military effort.

It seems to have worked. We won.  But even if said rationing was for morale, it worked. We won.

[Suppressed]

Recycling is nearly totally unnecessary IMO. The market could handle it.

If it was truly an in demand product, then you'd be motivated to recycle to get the money. A lot of "free market" recycling happens already.

Trouble is, the "free market" doesn't capture all of the costs of waste.  It also doesn't do well with Tragedy of the Commons or long-term planning.

[Suppressed]

@truth_seeker @Cripplecreek

I have never heard of recycling during WWII, but I have heard of rationing.

Recycling was a HUGE part of WWII!  If you have been unable to find reference to it, that's because it was referred to as "Scrap".

                 

Paper was recycled to save wood and to free lumbermen for military service.  Fats were important.  Many types of metals were recycled.  Of course, brass was very useful, but most of the posters were driving for "tin"...cans of various types.  And the drives urged people to be responsible and keep their waste separated ("Don't Mix It!").

          

It seems to have worked. We won.  But even if said rationing was for morale, it worked. We won.

Yes, it did.  As close as the war was at times, we have to wonder whether we might not have been able to win without the extensive reduction and recycling efforts.

 

Recycling was seen as PATRIOTIC!  Then consumerism came in and said we should be wasteful and spend, spend, spend money rather than be frugal and conservative.

[truth_seeker]

Yes, it did.  As close as the war was at times, we have to wonder whether we might not have been able to win without the extensive reduction and recycling efforts.

What I know of WWII comes from my mother, living in suburbs of Los Angeles. There were many aircraft builders nearby, and the LA/Long Beach port. (now the nation's biggest port, btw)

She talked of blackouts, rubber, gas and sugar rationing. There was ample reason for caution and even fear. The japs shelled the Ellwood Oil Field, north of Santa Barbara, not long after Pearl Harbor.

At the time, it was NOT an obvious given, that we would prevail. I realize most people can't grasp the gravity of the times.

Since WWII we have not decisively won a significant conflict, that stayed won. (sure, a few little ones like Grenada. But Korea, Vietnam, Middle East, Afghanistan, Terror go on and on, perhaps because we take too much for granted, and use half measures)

 

[roamer_1]

I generate about 1 kitchen bag of waste per week.
And that will go down even more when the compost heap fully matures. Paper and cardboard are getting burnt and thrown into the compost... all i really pitch anymore is plastic and glass, and excess ash. Sometimes there is more than the compost can handle... like when I clean the fridge out... but eventually, that will change.

[Cripplecreek]

@truth_seeker @Cripplecreek

Recycling was a HUGE part of WWII!  If you have been unable to find reference to it, that's because it was referred to as "Scrap".


Paper was recycled to save wood and to free lumbermen for military service.  Fats were important.  Many types of metals were recycled.  Of course, brass was very useful, but most of the posters were driving for "tin"...cans of various types.  And the drives urged people to be responsible and keep their waste separated ("Don't Mix It!").




Yes, it did.  As close as the war was at times, we have to wonder whether we might not have been able to win without the extensive reduction and recycling efforts.



Recycling was seen as PATRIOTIC!  Then consumerism came in and said we should be wasteful and spend, spend, spend money rather than be frugal and conservative.

My friend's grandmother told me that her husband drove truckloads of scrap to the steel mill during WWII. She said the steel mill paid him decent money at a loss to themselves because it was essential to the war effort.

As aniother poster pointed out, it was also important as a means of keeping te public involved. Same with growing a victory garden. My great grandmother said you made sure to plow up your front yard so everybody could see that you supported the war effort by growing you own food.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Trouble is, the "free market" doesn't capture all of the costs of waste.  It also doesn't do well with Tragedy of the Commons or long-term planning.

The free market actually does capture all the costs of waste. And where it doesn't, it can. Allow refuse companies to charge by the bag for example.

The free market has a hard time with dealing with pollution, but that is a separate issue from recycling.

Waste to energy plants seem to be a good solution to the problem.

[Oceander]

The Recycling Drives during WWII were mostly for morale purposes to make people feel involved in the War effort, even though very little of the scrap was actually used.

Really?  What happened to all the scrap that was collected?

[Cripplecreek]

Really?  What happened to all the scrap that was collected?

The scrapyard near me has been in business since 1942. They certainly haven't stayed in business for all those years by sorting scrap to send it to a landfill.

I guess I just don't get who some can't grasp the concept that recycling metal is far cheaper than mining and refining  raw ore into metal. Its why "clean" scrap like aluminum siding and cans are so valuable and pay so well to scrap. Basically heat it to 1500 degrees and the paint and dyes burn off leaving pure molten aluminum.  It is the 3rd most common element in the earth's crust but isn't found in nature as a pure element meaning that aside from recycling it must always be mined from Bauxite deposits and extensively refined.

[Suppressed]

The scrapyard near me has been in business since 1942. They certainly haven't stayed in business for all those years by sorting scrap to send it to a landfill.

I guess I just don't get who some can't grasp the concept that recycling metal is far cheaper than mining and refining  raw ore into metal. Its why "clean" scrap like aluminum siding and cans are so valuable and pay so well to scrap. Basically heat it to 1500 degrees and the paint and dyes burn off leaving pure molten aluminum.  It is the 3rd most common element in the earth's crust but isn't found in nature as a pure element meaning that aside from recycling it must always be mined from Bauxite deposits and extensively refined.

The cap of the Washington Monument was made of aluminum, and at the time, it was very expensive to extract and nobody knew how to cast it.  It was more expensive than silver!  The cap itself cost nearly $300, when a 10-hour day's wages was about a dollar.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

I post on a forum where a lot of scrappers post and apparently the china slowdown really hit their livelihoods hard and scrap metal isn't worth anything close to what it used to be.

Although that might be out of date.

[The_Reader_David]

I have never heard of recycling during WWII, but I have heard of rationing.

Gasoline and tires were rationed, so more could be deployed to the military effort.

It seems to have worked. We won.  But even if said rationing was for morale, it worked. We won.

There were scrap metal drives for the war effort during WWII -- mostly collecting copper.  They just didn't call it "recycling" back then.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

You want recycling? Try this:

http://www.wtienergy.com/plant-locations/energy-from-waste/wheelabrator-saugus

In my town.

Waste to energy baby!