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Offline TomSea

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How the CIA Came to Doubt the Official Story of JFK’s Murder

Newly released documents from long-secret Kennedy assassination files raise startling questions about what top agency officials knew and when they knew it.
By PHILIP SHENON and LARRY J. SABATO

August 03, 2017

The Friday Cover

After the assassination of President John F. Kennedy in November 1963, the CIA appeared eager, even desperate, to embrace the version of events being offered by the FBI, the Secret Service and other parts of the government. The official story: that a delusional misfit and self-proclaimed Marxist named Lee Harvey Oswald killed the president in Dallas with his $21 mail-order rifle and there was no evidence of a conspiracy, foreign or domestic. Certainly, the CIA’s leaders told the Warren Commission, the independent panel that investigated the murder, there was no evidence of a conspiracy that the spy agency could have foiled.

But thousands of pages of long-secret, assassination-related documents released by the National Archives last week show that, within a few years of Kennedy’s murder, some in the CIA began to worry internally that the official story was wrong—an alarm the agency never sounded publicly.

Specifically, key CIA officials were concerned by the mid-1970s that the agency, the FBI, the Secret Service and the White House commission led by Chief Justice Earl Warren had never followed up on important clues about Oswald’s contact with foreign agents, including diplomats and spies for the Communist governments of Cuba and the Soviet Union, who might have been aware of his plans to kill Kennedy and even encouraged the plot. (There is no credible evidence cited in the documents released so far that Cuban leader Fidel Castro or other foreign leaders had any personal role in ordering Kennedy’s murder.)

Continued: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/03/jfk-assassination-lone-gunman-cia-new-files-215449

Offline TomSea

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Re: How the CIA Came to Doubt the Official Story of JFK’s Murder
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2017, 03:34:18 pm »
With the passing of Jim Marrs, likewise, these latest releases of documents have spurred a lot of discussion and actually, set a lot of past conspiracy theories on their heads. No, I don't believe the CIA, Johnson, etc. I won't drag others names into the mud did the assassination, nor Cuban exiles and probably not the Mafia either.

Offline Quix

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Re: How the CIA Came to Doubt the Official Story of JFK’s Murder
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2017, 04:46:16 pm »
With the passing of Jim Marrs, likewise, these latest releases of documents have spurred a lot of discussion and actually, set a lot of past conspiracy theories on their heads. No, I don't believe the CIA, Johnson, etc. I won't drag others names into the mud did the assassination, nor Cuban exiles and probably not the Mafia either.

Time will tell . . . smoke, mirrors, misdirection, disinformation  etc.

imho, the facts are that Kennedy somehow displeased TPTB with what he'd done or was about to do . . . the rumors about his seeking to deal with The Fed as well as outting the UFO info--either one could have been sufficient reason to remove him from this  dimension.
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Offline TomSea

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Re: How the CIA Came to Doubt the Official Story of JFK’s Murder
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2017, 04:57:47 pm »
Anthony Summers is another major researcher; all of these folks are up towards the top for a list of Conspiracy Theorists.

Defender of lone gunman is John McAdams: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/

He's the same one who has been in trouble with Marquette University for speaking against Same-Sex Marriage. Just websearch it.

Offline TomSea

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Re: How the CIA Came to Doubt the Official Story of JFK’s Murder
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2017, 09:23:15 pm »
Time will tell . . . smoke, mirrors, misdirection, disinformation  etc.

imho, the facts are that Kennedy somehow displeased TPTB with what he'd done or was about to do . . . the rumors about his seeking to deal with The Fed as well as outting the UFO info--either one could have been sufficient reason to remove him from this  dimension.

There are also far flung theories that, I believe, UFOs committed the assassination, that's up there with the Masons did it theories.

Offline dfwgator

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Re: How the CIA Came to Doubt the Official Story of JFK’s Murder
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2017, 09:28:40 pm »
The Commie did it, end of story.

Offline Quix

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Re: How the CIA Came to Doubt the Official Story of JFK’s Murder
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2017, 09:33:41 pm »
There are also far flung theories that, I believe, UFOs committed the assassination, that's up there with the Masons did it theories.

The critters in cahoots with secret societies may have ordered  it. Doubt they 'pulled the triggers.'

imho, There's a galactic cluster's worth of distance between "UFO's" did it and the other characters  you mentioned did it.
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Offline Quix

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Re: How the CIA Came to Doubt the Official Story of JFK’s Murder
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2017, 09:34:35 pm »
Anthony Summers is another major researcher; all of these folks are up towards the top for a list of Conspiracy Theorists.

Defender of lone gunman is John McAdams: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/

He's the same one who has been in trouble with Marquette University for speaking against Same-Sex Marriage. Just websearch it.

imho, lone gunman folks are grossly ignorant of the facts.
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Offline TomSea

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Re: How the CIA Came to Doubt the Official Story of JFK’s Murder
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2017, 09:42:27 pm »
imho, lone gunman folks are grossly ignorant of the facts.

The main reason I think Oswald did it alone is because they pretty much know what he was doing in the prior 2 years to the assassination, in New Orleans and the Metroplex as they say. Actually, they know fairly well what he was doing since he was discharged from the Marines and then, went to Russia. I read the Gerald Posner book, "Case closed", also, as an answer to the Oliver Stone movie, JFK,

"100 errors in fact in the movie JFK"  http://jfk-online.com/jfk100menu.html

JFK assassination forum, probably one of the more neutral websites per discussion of the JFK assassination: http://jfkassassinationforum.com/  Duncan, who is the forum owner is from Scotland.

Back to Oswald, they can't find any real ties that stand out, no connections to the CIA, the Mob, etc.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2017, 09:44:10 pm by TomSea »

Offline TomSea

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Re: How the CIA Came to Doubt the Official Story of JFK’s Murder
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2017, 09:46:27 pm »
I know of one fellow and he gobbles up what conspiracy theorists say, thinks it is true without some basic skepticism. That is a problem too.

Offline Quix

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Re: How the CIA Came to Doubt the Official Story of JFK’s Murder
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2017, 11:58:21 pm »
I know of one fellow and he gobbles up what conspiracy theorists say, thinks it is true without some basic skepticism. That is a problem too.
The main reason I think Oswald did it alone is because they pretty much know what he was doing in the prior 2 years to the assassination, in New Orleans and the Metroplex as they say. Actually, they know fairly well what he was doing since he was discharged from the Marines and then, went to Russia. I read the Gerald Posner book, "Case closed", also, as an answer to the Oliver Stone movie, JFK,

"100 errors in fact in the movie JFK"  http://jfk-online.com/jfk100menu.html

JFK assassination forum, probably one of the more neutral websites per discussion of the JFK assassination: http://jfkassassinationforum.com/  Duncan, who is the forum owner is from Scotland.

Back to Oswald, they can't find any real ties that stand out, no connections to the CIA, the Mob, etc.

I respect you and your study.

However, I was watching  live at the time . . .  when J  Ruby killed Oswald.

I immediately was convinced Oswald was a patsy for the  PTB.

It would be extremely difficult to convince me that Oswald acted alone.

I also found LBJ's long time mistress' story more than a little believable.
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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: How the CIA Came to Doubt the Official Story of JFK’s Murder
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2017, 01:18:37 am »

Russia did it. The Cubans did it. The CIA did it. The Mafia did it. Johnson did it. Bush did it. Trump did it.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline TomSea

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Re: How the CIA Came to Doubt the Official Story of JFK’s Murder
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2017, 02:20:46 am »
I saw this image a few years ago; and it really set me to thinking. Then, I searched out some old photos of Bush 41, his head structure is just plain different and I decided, nope, that isn't him. That looks more like Dubya who would have of course, been too young in '63. So, what does one see in a photo?

For the uninitiated, many claim this is GWB, Bush 41 in Dallas near the Texas Schoolbook Depository on Nov. 22nd, 1963, the day of JFK's assassination.




Very early photos to me, really clear this up.


It is a bit puzzling, if one looks at Bush 43, if Malcolm Wallace was in the Skull and Crossbones society with him in the Ivy League which conspiracy theorists will often roll out. Wallace is some character but that's a bit beyond the scope of this topic.

Disclaimer: I assume photo 2 above is authentic and assuming so, it shows how a camera can largely mislead one.  In fact, it is a bit humorous to see.

John McCain anyone? Per this ISIS controversy he is accused of.

« Last Edit: August 05, 2017, 02:35:44 am by TomSea »

Offline Quix

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Re: How the CIA Came to Doubt the Official Story of JFK’s Murder
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2017, 04:02:52 am »

Whether my respect was misplaced, or not, I respected McCain's dad when he was CINCPAC. I served many layers under him, at that time of the Nam 'war.' I know for a fact that McCain Sr vetoed a plan to have special forces sink a French ship in Hanoi harbor to justify bombing Hanoi as a response.


I think John McCain is a lying, deceptive, treasonous, duplicitous, globalist piece of human garbage.

The Kennedy story has far too many red flags on it for anyone very well read to trust the official story, imho.

I saw this image a few years ago; and it really set me to thinking. Then, I searched out some old photos of Bush 41, his head structure is just plain different and I decided, nope, that isn't him. That looks more like Dubya who would have of course, been too young in '63. So, what does one see in a photo?

For the uninitiated, many claim this is GWB, Bush 41 in Dallas near the Texas Schoolbook Depository on Nov. 22nd, 1963, the day of JFK's assassination.




Very early photos to me, really clear this up.


It is a bit puzzling, if one looks at Bush 43, if Malcolm Wallace was in the Skull and Crossbones society with him in the Ivy League which conspiracy theorists will often roll out. Wallace is some character but that's a bit beyond the scope of this topic.

Disclaimer: I assume photo 2 above is authentic and assuming so, it shows how a camera can largely mislead one.  In fact, it is a bit humorous to see.

John McCain anyone? Per this ISIS controversy he is accused of.


Forgive all; In all things Thank God; Love all. Love 1st, most & always... BE CALM & DO THE NEXT LOVING THING.
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Offline TomSea

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Re: How the CIA Came to Doubt the Official Story of JFK’s Murder
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2017, 06:53:14 am »
Whether my respect was misplaced, or not, I respected McCain's dad when he was CINCPAC. I served many layers under him, at that time of the Nam 'war.' I know for a fact that McCain Sr vetoed a plan to have special forces sink a French ship in Hanoi harbor to justify bombing Hanoi as a response.


I think John McCain is a lying, deceptive, treasonous, duplicitous, globalist piece of human garbage.

The Kennedy story has far too many red flags on it for anyone very well read to trust the official story, imho.

I've heard the same said about the Bushes; I certainly don't buy the joke story McCain met with ISIS which no legitimate news agency reports but only internet clowns.  Plenty is written on the Bushes; I'm just not out to immaturely and prematurely badmouth folks all the time. 

One can easily google "dark legacy" and "Bush" for plenty of conspiratorial info.

And if the info on Bush appears outlandish, it hurts the conspiracy view in general.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2017, 06:54:08 am by TomSea »

Offline TomSea

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Re: How the CIA Came to Doubt the Official Story of JFK’s Murder
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2017, 07:00:16 am »
Another theory on the JFK assassination is the Lee Harvey Oswald imposter theory:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/2oswalds.htm

If one is not really debating the issue @Quix , but just claiming others don't know anything if they are pro-lone gunman theory like the Warren Report and do not name any specifics, perhaps Conspiracy theorists should likewise, have the ball batted back to them per these wild conspiracy theories that often, beggar belief.

Name an issue, let's not just cast aspersions.

Offline TomSea

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Re: How the CIA Came to Doubt the Official Story of JFK’s Murder
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2017, 07:05:31 am »
Discuss, name an issue or then, let's see that once again, it's the Conspiracy Theories who come up with absolutely NOTHING at all.

It's fine to say others don't know what they are talking about.

Freaking prove it.

I'll bet as usual, we have a few threads, a few facts but nothing airtight, little at all.

I'll grant that there are some mysterious deaths seemingly with the JFK assassination but in the end, it boils down to nothing.

The same can be said for some Mafia crime boss admitting to killing JFK, over UFOs really?

If this "alternative realities" is all bunkum, than I am out of here. I'm not here just to throw stones or say others don't know of what they speak.

Flush it, that's all we've got. N-O-T-H-I-N-G that proves it. Just say others don't know. I guess this area really is fringe if we are saying JFK was assassinated because he was going to talk of UFOs. That more or less, strains credibility.

http://www.openminds.tv/watergates-hunt-allegedly-believed-kennedy-assassination-tied-to-alien-revelations/34273
"Watergate’s Hunt allegedly believed Kennedy assassination tied to alien revelations"

Maybe under general, I will open up earnest discussion of the issue.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2017, 07:25:28 am by TomSea »

Offline Quix

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Re: How the CIA Came to Doubt the Official Story of JFK’s Murder
« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2017, 08:37:28 am »
I've heard the same said about the Bushes; I certainly don't buy the joke story McCain met with ISIS which no legitimate news agency reports but only internet clowns.  Plenty is written on the Bushes; I'm just not out to immaturely and prematurely badmouth folks all the time. 

One can easily google "dark legacy" and "Bush" for plenty of conspiratorial info.

And if the info on Bush appears outlandish, it hurts the conspiracy view in general.

Reasonable re Bushes ... except that

A Congressional investigation proved that grandpappy Bush paid lots of money to help insure that Hitler succeeded.

I long held the thought that Jr was a somewhat patriotic, reluctant stooge of the globalists. Don't know if it's true that he was reluctant, or not.
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Offline Quix

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Re: How the CIA Came to Doubt the Official Story of JFK’s Murder
« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2017, 09:02:20 am »
Discuss, name an issue or then, let's see that once again, it's the Conspiracy Theories who come up with absolutely NOTHING at all.

It's fine to say others don't know what they are talking about.

Freaking prove it.

I'll bet as usual, we have a few threads, a few facts but nothing airtight, little at all.

I'll grant that there are some mysterious deaths seemingly with the JFK assassination but in the end, it boils down to nothing.

The same can be said for some Mafia crime boss admitting to killing JFK, over UFOs really?

If this "alternative realities" is all bunkum, than I am out of here. I'm not here just to throw stones or say others don't know of what they speak.

Flush it, that's all we've got. N-O-T-H-I-N-G that proves it. Just say others don't know. I guess this area really is fringe if we are saying JFK was assassinated because he was going to talk of UFOs. That more or less, strains credibility.

http://www.openminds.tv/watergates-hunt-allegedly-believed-kennedy-assassination-tied-to-alien-revelations/34273
"Watergate’s Hunt allegedly believed Kennedy assassination tied to alien revelations"

Maybe under general, I will open up earnest discussion of the issue.

I believe that credible, well-sourced personal reports--particularly of participants, eye-witnesses ... is pretty reasonable proof of a deep conspiracy data point.

It is the nature of TRUE conspiracies to be extremely difficult to prove.

That is NOT the same as "PROOF"  of their falseness.

It is a fact {personal communication by the world's expert--my boss ~1967} that the very flaky fringe groups were the first, earliest and MOST accurate about who Hitler would become and what he would do. They did not have stacks of scientific  "PROOF" either. But they were absolutely correct in most all that they asserted about him.

"Objective Scientific Proof" has become, imho, a straw dog, a Cardinal Doctrine of the most holy church of the Religion of Scientism. And it is a deceptive strategy.

It purports to be the only purveyor of the absolute truest truly true truth.

Yet, the Religion of  Scientism itself is replete with horrific, off the wall stupidities BLOCKING and  preventing publication of even hard scientific proof--truth--sometimes for decades.

Even in this late era,  corporate money manipulates scientific journal publishing of "truth" 6 ways to Sonday. Very OFTEN, such 'scientific truth' turns out to be just what the stockholders of those paying for the research want it to turn out to be.

And scientists who want to publish a new finding--but one which doesn't exactly flatter the status quo--are prevented from publishing ... and often ran out of academia on a rail for daring to think that absolutely objective scientific proof is preferable  to the GROUP THINK of the Religion of Scientism.

No, I will not suck at the sugar-tit of objective scientific proof as the only purveyor of absolutely truly truest truth. It is FAR too unreliable for such adoration to be remotely fitting.

There are basically TWO routes to discovery of truth:

1. The HEBREW method, strategy--as in Adam KNEW Eve--became one with her physically etc. ... phenomenologically--immersion, integration, participant observer etc.

2. The GREEK method, strategy--dissect a thing down to its smallest parts. I suspect your spouse would have a strong bias as to which  strategy you chose to  know the TRUTH of their person and body.

My dissertation used both strategies and was far more robust than average because of it.

The UFO field is certainly replete with phenomenologically derived data points. The public square has not had the opportunity to get a UFO or any part of it--except for some relatively tiny samples--under the microscope. Now, it turns out that the tiny samples were exotic, indeed. And that the properties of those tiny samples were a bit startling. But that's another story.

Until looming history future affords John Q Public the chance to get the UFO stuff under a microscope; to 'kick the tires' ... there will not be MUCH of the sort of proof you seem so demanding about.

That, however, is NOT the same as being totally clueless or ignorant about the topic. You seem to EQUATE non-scientific routes to knowledge about conspiracies and UFOs etc with NOT KNOWING ANYTHING at all, whatsoever.

imho, That's unwise, uninformed, ignorant.

We know a wealth of information about  UFOs as well as about the true globalist conspiracy.

The latter, we have many dozens of quotes of the globalists in their own words over the last 100-200 years. They laid out more or less exactly what they were going to do en-route to a tyrannical overt global government and they have largely done exactly those things. Why anyone is so uninformed as to call it a 'conspiracy theory' is beyond me. ... except that they've been chug-a-lugging on the oligarchy's abundant Kool-Aid.

I love reading your posts. I find them interesting and usually bright and informed.

However, I'm disappointed in the one I'm replying to. I think you can do far better.

We live in a super critical era. The evidence  indicates it IS the Biblical  END TIMES era when history as we have known it for millennia will forever change.

The suffering will be unprecedented. As The Book declares--if the days weren't shortened, no flesh would be saved.

The abundant evidence is on every hand and plenty of billboards--so to speak.

Yet, I know of prophecy believing Christians who pretend it's all fables and useless, "unproven" theories.

What terminal blindness. They and their families will suffer more than necessary for their arrogant stubborn denial of relatively proven REALITIES.

Countless murderers have been sentenced to execution on the basis of excellent testimony--and reasonably so. . . . often less testimony and less quality testimony than is available in redundant measures in the UFO field.

Ignoring such reasonably solid evidence, is, to me idiotic.

And I no longer have a great deal of patience with such cluelessness.

Life is too short.

Time is too short.

We MUST work while there is 'light' to work in for the looming descending darkness and night is rushing toward us.

= = =

As to globalism--this site has abundant proofs for any fair-minded person to thoughtfully ponder and grow wiser from:

http://www.globalistagenda.org/
.



« Last Edit: August 05, 2017, 09:10:09 am by Quix »
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Offline Quix

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Re: How the CIA Came to Doubt the Official Story of JFK’s Murder
« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2017, 09:14:06 am »
@TomSea,

BTW, just HOW does it strain credibility to assert that JFK was killed--in large  part--because he was going to out some serious UFO info?

MULTIPLE well connected folks in  the know have asserted that.

What's the scientific proof that YOU KNOW more than they do about the topic?

Ditto the aspect that he was planning to deal the Fed a huge blow. Either  issue was a sufficient threat to the oligarchy's plans and strategies to justify his murder. Certainly both together were.

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