Ethanol bill defeated in Senate

[thackney]

Ethanol bill defeated in Senate
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jul/23/ethanol-bill-defeated-in-senate/
July 23, 2017

In a major defeat for the ethanol industry, senators of both parties joined forces late last week to sink a controversial bill that would’ve allowed gasoline with 15 percent ethanol to be sold year-round.

The measure had become a flash point on Capitol Hill, dividing both Republicans and Democrats — with senators from ethanol-producing states supporting the bill — while also uniting diverse groups in opposition, such as environmentalists, boaters and motorcyclists. The legislation also represented a key opportunity for the ethanol sector, as the expansion of E15 sales would’ve been a financial boon and, to at least some degree, a marketplace defeat for the oil industry.

The bill was co-sponsored by Republican Sens. Deb Fischer of Nebraska and Charles E. Grassley of Iowa, and Democratic Sen. Joe Donnelly of Indiana. Despite that bipartisan support, the legislation in the end was unable to muster enough support in the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee.

Committee leaders announced Friday that there would be no action on the bill before the August recess, though it’s unclear whether it’ll be resurrected sometime in the fall.

Ethanol sector leaders bemoaned the delay but said the battle for E15 isn’t finished.

“We will continue to work with our bipartisan sponsors to enact this bill to provide drivers across the country cleaner fuel options year-round that are better for the environment and save Americans money every time they fill up the gas tank,” said Emily Skor, CEO of Growth Energy, which represents ethanol producers.

[thackney]

...The bill – introduced by Nebraska Republican Deb Fischer – would amend a provision in the Clean Air Act to extend a Reid Vapor Pressure waiver currently capped at a 10 percent ethanol blend – the most commonly used fuel in the country – to a 15 percent blend, enabling retailers to sell the blend year-round. Currently, the statutory language blocks the sale from June 1 through Sept. 15....

https://www.agri-pulse.com/articles/9602-as-e15-bill-awaits-action-ethanol-opponents-get-vocal

...But the bill is not without opposition off Capitol Hill as well. A familiar group of opponents spoke with reporters on Wednesday, singling out Fischer’s bill – S.517, the Consumer and Fuel Retailer Choice Act. The collection of wildlife, motorcycle, boating, and consumer groups said the bill would lead to greater mis-fuelings in small engines where E15 is not an approved fuel....

[thackney]

S.517 - Consumer and Fuel Retailer Choice Act
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/517

[jpsb]

A bill to kill just about every internal combustion engine in the USA? And it almost passed? Trump is right it's not a swamp it's a sewer.

[goatprairie]

If the ethanol industry falls, get your money out of stocks that involve small engine repair businesses. They boomed when ethanol was introduced.  Never put anything with ethanol in your small engines.
 I've had to take three small engine devices to get repaired, and the guy who ran the repair shop said his business boomed after ethanol was put into regular gas.  Always get premium (no ethanol) for your small engines.

[thackney]

If the ethanol industry falls, get your money out of stocks that involve small engine repair businesses. They boomed when ethanol was introduced.  Never put anything with ethanol in your small engines.
 I've had to take three small engine devices to get repaired, and the guy who ran the repair shop said his business boomed after ethanol was put into regular gas.  Always get premium (no ethanol) for your small engines.

In some areas that may be correct, but for many, the premium contains ethanol.  It is one of the ways they meet the higher octane.  Ethanol is 100 octane; blending it in boosts octane.

https://www.bellperformance.com/blog/bid/110140/does-premium-gas-have-ethanol-in-it

[goatprairie]

In some areas that may be correct, but for many, the premium contains ethanol.  It is one of the ways they meet the higher octane.  Ethanol is 100 octane; blending it in boosts octane.

https://www.bellperformance.com/blog/bid/110140/does-premium-gas-have-ethanol-in-it

In my state of Wisconsin it says right on the pump for premium that no ethanol was added. I use premium gas on all my small engines now and haven't had problems since.  Can't vouch for the premium in other states.

[Frank Cannon]

Bet a nickle the domestic auto makers were pushing like hell for this to pass so they could force more of their ballooning inventory on the public.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

Having only read the excerpt and not the bill, this seems unfortunate.  If they were ALLOWED to sell E15 to those willing to buy it that should cut into the mandate and hopefully make non-ethanol cheaper for those who choose to go that route.

[Hondo69]

Q. Gosh, ethanol is a "renewable resource", what could go wrong?

A. The government gets involved.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

Bet a nickle the domestic auto makers were pushing like hell for this to pass so they could force more of their ballooning inventory on the public.

And get out of warranty work.  I'm pretty convinced that the major reason for the 'no >10% ethanol' labels/conditions is to void warranties, not because they know E15 would cause problems.  Also saves them a lot of testing.

[thackney]

In my state of Wisconsin it says right on the pump for premium that no ethanol was added. I use premium gas on all my small engines now and haven't had problems since.  Can't vouch for the premium in other states.

In my area, an EPA attainment area, all grades at all pumps have ethanol due to requirement for reformulated gasoline.  You have to buy racing fuel, or airplane fuel to get it without ethanol.  Even the marine terminal are all required to meet the EPA requirement.

https://www.epa.gov/gasoline-standards/reformulated-gasoline

About 1/3 of the gasoline sold in the US is reformulated.

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_cons_psup_dc_nus_mbblpd_m.htm

Some state governments have also required all gasoline contain ethanol.

https://www.afpm.org/State-Motor-Fuels-Specifications/

[ConstitutionRose]

In my area, an EPA attainment area, all grades at all pumps have ethanol due to requirement for reformulated gasoline.  You have to buy racing fuel, or airplane fuel to get it without ethanol.  Even the marine terminal are all required to meet the EPA requirement.

https://www.epa.gov/gasoline-standards/reformulated-gasoline

About 1/3 of the gasoline sold in the US is reformulated.

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_cons_psup_dc_nus_mbblpd_m.htm

Some state governments have also required all gasoline contain ethanol.

https://www.afpm.org/State-Motor-Fuels-Specifications/

Even marine fuel?  Dang.  I wonder how many boat engines that has destroyed. 

[driftdiver]

Ethanol is nothing other then a agriculture subsidy.   It does not make environmental sense and it has cost us a tremendous amount of money for the subsidy and also for all of the damage ethanol has done.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

Even marine fuel?  Dang.  I wonder how many boat engines that has destroyed.

None.  Nothing special about an engine just because you stick it in a boat.

[ConstitutionRose]

None.  Nothing special about an engine just because you stick it in a boat.

I bow to your superior knowledge, but when we purchased a new outboard for our sailboat the sales person and the documentation was very, very specific in stating no ethanol fuel.

[thackney]

Even marine fuel?  Dang.  I wonder how many boat engines that has destroyed.

This is what I use for gasoline tanks not in the trucks:



http://www.boatingmag.com/we-test-sta-bil-360-marine#page-2

[driftdiver]

None.  Nothing special about an engine just because you stick it in a boat.

Funny cause here in Tampa I know a lot of people that have had boat engines damaged by ethanol.    Marine engines are different than automobile engines in most cases.  Sure they are still internal combustion engines but they are different and are used differently.  Most boats are not used on a daily basis.  This means that the fuel tends to sit longer which allows ethanol to separate from the gasoline and do its damage on fuel lines and other engine parts.   

[Frank Cannon]

And get out of warranty work.  I'm pretty convinced that the major reason for the 'no >10% ethanol' labels/conditions is to void warranties, not because they know E15 would cause problems.  Also saves them a lot of testing.

The whole scheme is Cash for Clunkers 2, except after you blow your own engine up, you get stuck with the whole replacement bill.

[thackney]

None.  Nothing special about an engine just because you stick it in a boat.

One of the issues is being on the water means a lot of humidity in the air.  Ethanol absorbs water.  In high humidity areas the "breathing" of a fuel tank with temperature changes will bring water into the fuel.

https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2015-09/documents/waterphs.pdf

Since ethanol and water readily dissolve in each other, when
ethanol is used as an additive in gasoline, water will actually
dissolve in the blended fuel to a much greater extent than in
conventional gasoline. When the water reaches the maximum amount
that the gasoline blend can dissolve, any additional water will
separate from the gasoline. The amount of water required (in
percent of the total volume) for this phase separation to take
place varies with temperature, as shown in Figure 1. As an
example, at 60 degrees F, water can be absorbed by a blend of 90%
gasoline and 10% ethanol up to a content of 0.5 volume percent
before it will phase separate. This means that approximately 3.8
teaspoons of water can be dissolved per gallon of the fuel before
the water will begin to phase separate.

[Free Vulcan]

I'm glad. I live in rural Iowa and don't care for ethanol or the mandate. There are far better uses for corn than a commodity fuel. Protecting ethanol has created serious imbalances in the ag markets.

That said, ethanol in the right engine is a great fuel. It should not be mandated though.

[driftdiver]

The whole scheme is Cash for Clunkers 2, except after you blow your own engine up, you get stuck with the whole replacement bill.

Many people only use their boats a few times a year.   The rest of the time that fuel sits in the tank.  Thats not good for engines with gasoline but its really bad with ethanol.

[ConstitutionRose]

One of the issues is being on the water means a lot of humidity in the air.  Ethanol absorbs water.  In high humidity areas the "breathing" of a fuel tank with temperature changes will bring water into the fuel.

https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2015-09/documents/waterphs.pdf

Since ethanol and water readily dissolve in each other, when
ethanol is used as an additive in gasoline, water will actually
dissolve in the blended fuel to a much greater extent than in
conventional gasoline. When the water reaches the maximum amount
that the gasoline blend can dissolve, any additional water will
separate from the gasoline. The amount of water required (in
percent of the total volume) for this phase separation to take
place varies with temperature, as shown in Figure 1. As an
example, at 60 degrees F, water can be absorbed by a blend of 90%
gasoline and 10% ethanol up to a content of 0.5 volume percent
before it will phase separate. This means that approximately 3.8
teaspoons of water can be dissolved per gallon of the fuel before
the water will begin to phase separate.

Good explanation.  We bought two new outboard motors at that time,  one for the boat and one for the dinghy and they both came with the same fuel restrictions. 

[Smokin Joe]

In some areas that may be correct, but for many, the premium contains ethanol.  It is one of the ways they meet the higher octane.  Ethanol is 100 octane; blending it in boosts octane.

https://www.bellperformance.com/blog/bid/110140/does-premium-gas-have-ethanol-in-it

Exactly. Living on a peninsula, my father can't get no-ethanol fuel within 100 miles. The marinas don't even have it. Two of his outboard motors have been messed up by that crap, and one left him a mile offshore. He is a very capable guy for being in his mid-80s, but that's still a long row, and weather can change in a heartbeat.

[Joe Wooten]

In some areas that may be correct, but for many, the premium contains ethanol.  It is one of the ways they meet the higher octane.  Ethanol is 100 octane; blending it in boosts octane.

https://www.bellperformance.com/blog/bid/110140/does-premium-gas-have-ethanol-in-it

No ethanol gasoline is more available than most think.

https://www.pure-gas.org/

Local airports carry it too. I get mine at the Joliet, IL municipal airport.