DOE grid study has wind and solar lobbyists spooked — rightly so

[Smokin Joe]

My generator died a few times after running for hours. I discovered it was weak spark. I replaced the coil with one for a car I had lying around. Ran good after that.

I converted my jeep many years ago to dual fuel. I love the fact that as long as the battery is hot, it'll always start right up on propane. No mater how long it has been sitting up.

First oilfield company I worked for had pickups that ran on either propane or gasoline. When it got down below -30, you had to start them on gasoline and warm them up so the propane would vaporize. After that warmup, though they would run fine.

[driftdiver]

The shingles on my roof were rated that high too, and they still blew off during Hurricane Ike.

Good luck if you ever do try that.

Generators are noisy and attract attention.  Something to avoid even during hurricanes.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Generators are noisy and attract attention.  Something to avoid even during hurricanes.

Noisy is what attracted me to the Honda Inverter Generator.

Runs about as noisy as a refrigerator.

[Smokin Joe]

Noisy is what attracted me to the Honda Inverter Generator.

Runs about as noisy as a refrigerator.

LOL! You should hear my fridge!

[thackney]

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,269248.0.html

Propane is being exported because the immense growth of Natural Gas Liquid production from shale formations.  It is in more abundant supply than it was before.  And a far more stable product for long term storage than our ethanol-gasoline blend.

U.S. Natural Gas Plant Liquids Production
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/hist/n9060us2a.htm

[driftdiver]

Noisy is what attracted me to the Honda Inverter Generator.

Runs about as noisy as a refrigerator.

@IsailedawayfromFR
I get it, you love your generator. 

Honda makes good generators.  They still make noise, require maintenance, are expensive, and can be dangerous if not handled properly.

IMO its ridiculous to spend $4,000+ on a generator you might use twice in 20 years to protect $200 worth of food in the fridge.

[thackney]

@IsailedawayfromFR
I get it, you love your generator. 

Honda makes good generators.  They still make noise, require maintenance, are expensive, and can be dangerous if not handled properly.

IMO its ridiculous to spend $4,000+ on a generator you might use twice in 20 years to protect $200 worth of food in the fridge.

You don't need $4k just to run a fridge.  I've got three freezers with meat far exceeding $200 (just in one of them).

I spent a week without utility power following Ike.  When home after home became empty with the owners moving to hotels and family members, our street looked like a buffet for a thief.

Our generator let us run nearly everything except the main A/C.  It was an older, cheaper and noisy unit.

[Bigun]

@IsailedawayfromFR
I get it, you love your generator. 

Honda makes good generators.  They still make noise, require maintenance, are expensive, and can be dangerous if not handled properly.

IMO its ridiculous to spend $4,000+ on a generator you might use twice in 20 years to protect $200 worth of food in the fridge.

I don't know about others but my generator does a great deal more than just protect food during an emergency.  I'm an extra class amateur radio operator and a participant in the national hurricane network.

[driftdiver]

You don't need $4k just to run a fridge.  I've got three freezers with meat far exceeding $200 (just in one of them).

I spent a week without utility power following Ike.  When home after home became empty with the owners moving to hotels and family members, our street looked like a buffet for a thief.

Our generator let us run nearly everything except the main A/C.  It was an older, cheaper and noisy unit.

The cost over 20 years is certainly a lot more than the initial purchase price.

If I lived in a less populated area I would probably think about it.   Where I live now has enough people that its a priority for the electric company.   The less populated areas or problems affecting fewer people are a lower priority.

[thackney]

The cost over 20 years is certainly a lot more than the initial purchase price.

If I lived in a less populated area I would probably think about it.   Where I live now has enough people that its a priority for the electric company.   The less populated areas or problems affecting fewer people are a lower priority.

I was in a postage sized suburban lot.  I'm now out in the country but back then there was a LOT of homes without power for nearly a month, not just rural customers.

It is insurance.  I don't plan to even break even on insurance of my lifetime.  That isn't the point of insurance.

It was the ability to function in my home, get news, use the internet, use the phone, wash and dry clothes, dishes, stay reasonably in my home and not pay for a hotel, etc...

[thackney]

The cost over 20 years is certainly a lot more than the initial purchase price.

If I lived in a less populated area I would probably think about it.   Where I live now has enough people that its a priority for the electric company.   The less populated areas or problems affecting fewer people are a lower priority.

https://stateimpact.npr.org/texas/2013/09/12/restoring-power-what-houston-learned-from-ike/

Hurricane Ike was a strong Category 2 storm when it made landfall in Galveston, leaving 95 percent of CenterPoint’s 2.26 million customers in the dark. Ten days later, 75 percent of them had power restored.

[driftdiver]

https://stateimpact.npr.org/texas/2013/09/12/restoring-power-what-houston-learned-from-ike/

Hurricane Ike was a strong Category 2 storm when it made landfall in Galveston, leaving 95 percent of CenterPoint’s 2.26 million customers in the dark. Ten days later, 75 percent of them had power restored.

I live in central Florida.   In 2004 we had 4 hurricanes hit within about 6 weeks.  I had two outages of about 12 hours each. 

[thackney]

I live in central Florida.   In 2004 we had 4 hurricanes hit within about 6 weeks.  I had two outages of about 12 hours each.

You have been fortunate.  How close where you to the path of Hurricane Charley?

[driftdiver]

You have been fortunate.  How close where you to the path of Hurricane Charley?

The eye went through about 30 miles south and then east from me.   That was the one that was headed for us so people evacuated, right into its path.

Thru the storms the highest wind we experienced was about 124 mph but really it was 70-100mph for a couple hours and 60mph for a long time (12 hours as I recall).     Our palm tree whipped against the roof and took off a couple of the shingles.   For us Charley was just a lot of rain and winds up to about 60mph.   Anything 3 or less and I'm not evacuating.

[thackney]

The eye went through about 30 miles south and then east from me.   That was the one that was headed for us so people evacuated, right into its path.

Thru the storms the highest wind we experienced was about 124 mph but really it was 70-100mph for a couple hours and 60mph for a long time (12 hours as I recall).     Our palm tree whipped against the roof and took off a couple of the shingles.   For us Charley was just a lot of rain and winds up to about 60mph.   Anything 3 or less and I'm not evacuating.

Florida lost at least 3 power plants with damage and some significant major transmission line damage.  Over 1.3 million without power the next day.  In some areas they were still trying to assess the damage at that point before beginning repairs.

http://www.oe.netl.doe.gov/docs/charley/hurrcharley_sitrept_081404_1900.pdf

Even 10 days later there was about ~80,000 still without power, half of those in Charlotte county.

http://www.oe.netl.doe.gov/docs/charley/hurrcharley_sitrept_082304_1200.pdf

[driftdiver]

Florida lost at least 3 power plants with damage and some significant major transmission line damage.  Over 1.3 million without power the next day.  In some areas they were still trying to assess the damage at that point before beginning repairs.

http://www.oe.netl.doe.gov/docs/charley/hurrcharley_sitrept_081404_1900.pdf

Even 10 days later there was about ~80,000 still without power, half of those in Charlotte county.

http://www.oe.netl.doe.gov/docs/charley/hurrcharley_sitrept_082304_1200.pdf

Yes I know, I live just north of there.   

[IsailedawayfromFR]

@IsailedawayfromFR
I get it, you love your generator. 

Honda makes good generators.  They still make noise, require maintenance, are expensive, and can be dangerous if not handled properly.

IMO its ridiculous to spend $4,000+ on a generator you might use twice in 20 years to protect $200 worth of food in the fridge.

Mine cost me $800, and it is for emergency power for fridge as well as I use it out at farm with power equipment instead of a cord.

I do not know where you get a stat on $4,000+ for a generator, nor do I know where you say it is used only twice in 20 years.  I have more power outages than that.

Compare my $800 with the ridiculous cost of solar paneling of $70k. And my generator runs at night without batteries.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

https://stateimpact.npr.org/texas/2013/09/12/restoring-power-what-houston-learned-from-ike/

Hurricane Ike was a strong Category 2 storm when it made landfall in Galveston, leaving 95 percent of CenterPoint’s 2.26 million customers in the dark. Ten days later, 75 percent of them had power restored.

Ike got me a good deal on my farm truck when I walked into a Ford showroom the first day the dealership opened after being down a week.  They were still without power, were running no AC but had generators running some lights and computers, and were very very eager to make a deal after being closed so long.

Watch for hurricane sales.

[thackney]

Watch for hurricane sales.

Good tip.  Makes sense for a lot of large items.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

I'd love to have enough solar to run the fridges/freezers for a couple hours a day (not at the same time, and that's a low priority, honestly I could live w/o the food but being able to make ice would be a luxury), charge flashlights/batteries, run the shopvac (could be very important where I live), a few fans, etc.  Of course solar is not always available, so it would complement the generator (use solar when I can to save fuel -- no natural gas here).  Last time I looked it's still bloody expensive, but I wholeheartedly agree with thackney, it's insurance.

I'm on the fence about external lighting, safety vs making myself a target -- given my neighborhood it would probably come down to how many of the neighbors were around.

[RoosGirl]

Good tip.  Makes sense for a lot of large items.

Except generators. ;)

[thackney]

Except generators. ;)

You got that right.

The generator I ran after Ike on the Southwest side of Houston came from meeting a buddy halfway from Dallas who brought it down to me, along with 4 each 5 gallons can of gasoline.  Yeah, he's a good friend.

I wasn't as prepared then as I am now.

[Smokin Joe]

@IsailedawayfromFR
I get it, you love your generator. 

Honda makes good generators.  They still make noise, require maintenance, are expensive, and can be dangerous if not handled properly.

IMO its ridiculous to spend $4,000+ on a generator you might use twice in 20 years to protect $200 worth of food in the fridge.

The last time power went out here, it was a three day blackout during a blizzard. Three major high tension lines feeding into the area went down at the same time. Now, the weather was fairly mild, hovering just below freezing, so we all camped out around the fireplace, closed off the 'dry' parts of the house and kept the plumbing from freezing just fine.

Had that happened when the temps were more on the order of -30, a generator just to run the forced air furnace would have been a godsend. Call it insurance. The plumbing in this 100+ year old house was an afterthought, and is copper. Keeping that from freezing would be worth the 4K alone.

[driftdiver]

The last time power went out here, it was a three day blackout during a blizzard. Three major high tension lines feeding into the area went down at the same time. Now, the weather was fairly mild, hovering just below freezing, so we all camped out around the fireplace, closed off the 'dry' parts of the house and kept the plumbing from freezing just fine.

Had that happened when the temps were more on the order of -30, a generator just to run the forced air furnace would have been a godsend. Call it insurance. The plumbing in this 100+ year old house was an afterthought, and is copper. Keeping that from freezing would be worth the 4K alone.

I live in Tampa, not much chance of pipes freezing here.

[Mom MD]

I live in central Florida.   In 2004 we had 4 hurricanes hit within about 6 weeks.  I had two outages of about 12 hours each.

After my parents area took a direct hit with a cat 3 FEMA allowed free generators to all residents - they just had to go to home depot and pick it out....  Not my favorite use of tax $ but if you are in an affected area the question is worth asking.