The Rise of a Prince Ends Doubts Over Saudi Arabia’s Direction

[Right_in_Virginia]

The Rise of a Prince Ends Doubts Over Saudi Arabia’s Direction
Bloomberg, Jun 21, 2017

With the anointment of Prince Mohammed bin Salman as heir to the Saudi throne, any doubts over the continuation of policies that have shaken up the Middle East have gone.

Western diplomats already referred to the 31-year-old as “Mr. Everything,” because of his control over most aspects of domestic, foreign and defense affairs. His elevation ends a behind-the-scenes struggle for power and answers the question of what would happen to his plans for Saudi Arabia when King Salman, now 81, dies or steps aside.

The most ambitious of these, Vision 2030, seeks to recalibrate the economy to end the country’s near-total dependence on oil revenue. But internationally, there are also ramifications.

More:  https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-21/the-rise-of-a-prince-ends-doubts-over-saudi-arabia-s-direction

[truth_seeker]

Okay, where does he REALLY stand on Islamic terrorism? Straight up good guy, or typical two-faced doubletalk?

[driftdiver]

Saudi Arabians don't work.   What else would they do?  Sell slaves?

[Right_in_Virginia]

SA Vision 2030: 
http://vision2030.gov.sa/en/foreword

[driftdiver]

SA Vision 2030: 
http://vision2030.gov.sa/en/foreword

Ambition of their young people eh.

[truth_seeker]

My view is this, for "Visions" by Saudi Arabian muslims:

--Longer term, islam will prevail, will become the "top dog" in the world

--They intend for SA to leverage their oil wealth and their Mecca mosques to make them "top dog" among muslims

--Any ideas of peaceful coexistence with other religions is a ruse, is taqqiyah

--SA will not need to take up arms themselves, leaving that to more poor and ignorant soldiers of terrorism

[Right_in_Virginia]

Okay, where does he REALLY stand on Islamic terrorism? Straight up good guy, or typical two-faced doubletalk?

@truth_seeker

Vision2030 and Prince Mohammed bin Salman are a major blow to fundamentalist Islam and a boon to modernization of the Middle East.  He's 31, Western educated and apparently hell bent on dragging SA into the 21st Century. 

A view from Israel:

Analysis  //  Saudi Arabia's New Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman Is Good News for Israel and U.S.
Haaretz/Israel, Jun 21, 2017

Saudi crown prince Bin Salman agrees with U.S. on Russia, Assad, Iran and ISIS and according to some reports, he's also met with top Israeli officials

More: http://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/.premium-1.797007

[thackney]

@truth_seeker

Vision2030 and Prince Mohammed bin Salman are a major blow to fundamentalist Islam and a boon to modernization of the Middle East.  He's 31, Western educated and apparently hell bent on dragging SA into the 21st Century. 

Agreed.  The Saudi's have been and continue to make major investments for long term growth.  They have been building greatly in refinery and finished petrochemicals rather than just focused on producing raw crude oil.

[truth_seeker]

So does this mean all funding originating in SA, for madrassas that teach hate, will be stopped?

Everything I wrote above can be true, and he can also be seen by the West as a "Better" guy, but not truly somebody that opposes Islamic expansion, or terror either.

Terror is not intended to win a military victory. It is intended to soften up, to wear down resistance in preparation for greater and greater inroads to power. Reference muslim Mayor, of London.

If SA has a wonderful "Vision," why not give them the muslim refugees, instead of Germany, Sweden etc.? (Saudis don't work, and neither do they)

I remain a sceptic and so should President Trump. But I retain an open mind.

[EC]

Okay, where does he REALLY stand on Islamic terrorism? Straight up good guy, or typical two-faced doubletalk?

Some of his opinions you won't like. Most you will.

On the specific question of Islamic terrorism - he's hot against it and has been a prime mover (some say THE prime mover) in getting Saudi Arabia actively involved in fighting the scum, instead of hiding behind proxies as has been their policy in the past.

It's his reasoning you won't like - he's still for the supremacy of Islam. Just not by jihad.

[Free Vulcan]

Very interesting.

[Right_in_Virginia]

My view is this, for "Visions" by Saudi Arabian muslims:

--Longer term, islam will prevail, will become the "top dog" in the world

--They intend for SA to leverage their oil wealth and their Mecca mosques to make them "top dog" among muslims

--Any ideas of peaceful coexistence with other religions is a ruse, is taqqiyah

--SA will not need to take up arms themselves, leaving that to more poor and ignorant soldiers of terrorism

So what do you propose we do @truth_seeker ??

[truth_seeker]

So what do you propose we do @truth_seeker ??

"Trust But Verify" and "Keep the Powder Dry" and "Never Let Your Guard Down"

[Fishrrman]

EC wrote:
"It's his reasoning you won't like - he's still for the supremacy of Islam. Just not by jihad."

I don't believe that.
Not for a moment.

He may not be a trooper.
But he's a "supporter of the troops".

[EC]

Believe what you like. You're still wrong.

Most jihad types are poor. Not very well educated. What happens to the kings when the poor get a taste of power? It never ends well - for the kings.

[Suppressed]

So does this mean all funding originating in SA, for madrassas that teach hate, will be stopped?

The Royal family has thousands of members, many fantastically wealthy, with that wealth all over.  But just because it can't all be stopped, we shouldn't cut off out nose to spite our face.  This is a good (though expected) development.

[thackney]

Believe what you like. You're still wrong.

Most jihad types are poor. Not very well educated. What happens to the kings when the poor get a taste of power? It never ends well - for the kings.

+1

[TomSea]

Saudi Arabia is famous for what is a partnership of the Royal Family with the Radical Wahhabists, they scratch each others' back.

The prince may not be radical.

Saudi Arabia per se; doesn't really fund terrorism. I'm sure a number of rich Saudi individuals do.

Again, a country has no eternal permanent enemies, only eternal permanent interests.

Look at this Saudi who was harassing people to convert in that Goodwill store in Indiana. Poor? I doubt it, maybe middle class. Maybe anyone over there can receive a college education in the US.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/06/22/saudi-student-deported-threatening-goodwill-store-shoppers-didnt-convert-islam/

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,268616.0.html

[TomSea]

No doubt, as T_S was saying, SA funds Madrasas, the rise of radicalism in Indonesia is likely due to a rise in funding from SA.

Boston Globe, Stephen Kinzer

Opinion | Stephen Kinzer
Saudi Arabia is destabilizing the world

 Just a few months ago, the governor of Indonesia’s largest city, Jakarta, seemed headed for easy re-election despite the fact that he is a Christian in a mostly Muslim country. Suddenly everything went violently wrong. Using the pretext of an offhand remark the governor made about the Koran, masses of enraged Muslims took to the streets to denounce him. In short order he lost the election, was arrested, charged with blasphemy, and sentenced to two years in prison.

This episode is especially alarming because Indonesia, the world’s largest Muslim country, has long been one of its most tolerant. Indonesian Islam, like most belief systems on that vast archipelago, is syncretic, gentle, and open-minded. The stunning fall of Jakarta’s governor reflects the opposite: intolerance, sectarian hatred, and contempt for democracy. Fundamentalism is surging in Indonesia. This did not happen naturally.

Saudi Arabia has been working for decades to pull Indonesia away from moderate Islam and toward the austere Wahhabi form that is state religion in Saudi Arabia. The Saudis’ campaign has been patient, multi-faceted, and lavishly financed. It mirrors others they have waged in Muslim countries across Asia and Africa.

Successive American presidents have assured us that Saudi Arabia is our friend and wishes us well. Yet we know that Osama bin Laden and most of his 9/11 hijackers were Saudis, and that, as Secretary of State Hillary Clinton wrote in a diplomatic cable eight years ago, “Donors in Saudi Arabia constitute the most significant source of funding to Sunni terrorist groups worldwide.”
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Recent events in Indonesia shine a light on a Saudi project that is even more pernicious than financing terrorists. Saudi Arabia has used its wealth, much of which comes from the United States, to turn entire nations into hotbeds of radical Islam. By refusing to protest or even officially acknowledge this far-reaching project, we finance our own assassins — and global terror.
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The center of Saudi Arabia’s campaign to convert Indonesians to Wahhabi Islam is a tuition-free university in Jakarta known by the acronym LIPIA. All instruction is in Arabic, given mainly by preachers from Saudi Arabia and nearby countries. Genders are kept apart; strict dress codes are enforced; and music, television, and “loud laughter” are forbidden. Students learn an ultra-conservative form of Islam that favors hand amputation for thieves, stoning for adulterers, and death for gays and blasphemers.

Many of the students come from the more than 100 boarding schools Saudi Arabia supports in Indonesia, or have attended one of the 150 mosques that Saudis have built there. The most promising are given scholarships to study in Saudi Arabia, from which they return fully prepared to wreak social, political, and religious havoc in their homeland. Some promote terror groups like Hamas Indonesia and the Islamic Defenders Front, which did not exist before the Saudis arrived.

Eager to press his advantage, King Salman of Saudi Arabia made a nine-day trip to Indonesia in March, accompanied by an entourage of 1,500. The Saudis agreed to allow more than 200,000 Indonesians to make the hajj pilgrimage to Mecca each year — more than come from any other country — and sought permission to open new branches of their LIPIA university. Some Indonesians are pushing back against the Saudi assault on their traditional values, but it is difficult to deny permission for new religious schools when the state is not able to provide decent secular alternatives. In Indonesia, as in other countries where the Saudis are actively promoting Wahhabism — including Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Bosnia — the weakness and corruption of central governments create pools of rootless unemployed who are easily seduced by the promises of free food and a place in God’s army.

The surging fundamentalism that is transforming Indonesia teaches several lessons. First is one that we should already have learned, about the nature of the Saudi government. It is an absolute monarchy supported by one of the world’s most reactionary religious sects. It gives clerics large sums to promote their anti-Western, anti-Christian, anti-Semitic brand of religious militancy abroad. In exchange, the clerics refrain from criticizing the Saudi monarchy or its thousands of high-living princes. Saudis with close ties to the ruling family give crucial support to groups like Al Qaeda, the Taliban, and ISIS. This fact should be at the front of our minds whenever we consider our policy toward the Middle East — including when we decide whether to side with the Saudis in their new dispute with neighboring Qatar.

Saudi Arabia’s success in reshaping Indonesia shows the importance of the global battle over ideas. Many in Washington consider spending for cultural and other “soft power” projects to be wasteful. The Saudis feel differently. They pour money and resources into promoting their world view. We should do the same.


Continued: https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2017/06/10/saudi-arabia-destabilizing-world/ivMeb7TWGk1fQaVjZWWKGP/story.html

Saudi Arabia can no longer deny its defining role in Islamic terror
The global scene on extremism seems to be expanding between the kingdom and Iran.

Lately, there has been much clamour over the role of Saudi Arabia in abetting terror in the Middle East region, apparently in the kingdom's bid to assert authority as also to checkmate another power Iran, which Saudi alleges lends relentless support to terror groups in Syria, Bahrain and Qatar among others.

Meanwhile, the kingdom's attempts to isolate Qatar and push it to the wall have turned the heat up in the Middle East, vitiating the environment.

It would also appear that Donald Trump's visit to Riyadh has led to further escalation of tensions in the region, helping forces inimical to Iran embark on any bloody misadventure. Security analysts the world over, particularly in the West, and the western media have been targeting Saudi Arabia for proliferating jihadi movements, fostering Islamic fundamentalism.

It therefore appears imperative to undertake a close examination of recent Saudi actions, which appear acrimonious. Recent bombings (May 22) in Manchester were yet another grim reminder that the threat from radical Islamic terrorism continues to recur and Saudi Arabia remains central to the spread of such terrorism.

Continued: http://www.dailyo.in/politics/saudi-arabia-qatar-iran-row-gulf-crisis-isis/story/1/17934.html

Germany outlawed any Mosque being built with Saudi money, "charity".